Advice on starting people at higher level and loot

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

rian_king

Jun 30, 2009 7:27:44		This is a question and there is no black and white answer so I thougth it might be better in general discussion

In my group everyone but me died. The plan is for me to get everyone's magic items so there new characters can have those to play with. They are creating new characters and buying new magic items also.

My question is this fair or does it make the new characters to powerful.

We are all level 4 and I still have +1 armor while everyone else well have 3 or magic items(including the ones I loot and what they buy. Should the loot I am taking be part of what they can buy and be taking away from there starting gold
#2

Delazar78

Jun 30, 2009 7:31:36 		I think this is all equipment that will be sold/disenchanted in a couple of level anyhow, so if I was your DM I would allow it.

Having a bit more equipment for a level or two is not really a game-breaker.

PS: or you can sell their items and pay someone to raise them.
#3

daukoe

Jun 30, 2009 8:17:23 		The rules say that when creating new characters at higher level, they start with the following:

1. A magic item of Level + 1
2. A magic item of equal Level
3. A magic item of Level - 1
4. Gold equivalent to the value of an equal Level magic item.
#4

djvash

Jun 30, 2009 10:26:06
The rules say that when creating new characters at higher level, they start with the following:

1. A magic item of Level + 1
2. A magic item of equal Level
3. A magic item of Level - 1
4. Gold equivalent to the value of an equal Level magic item.

That wasn't the question. The new characters will be starting with magic items. He wants to know what should be done with the old magic items.



In my opinion as a DM: Since your character is the only one to survive, I would say to use what you can from their loot yourself and sell the rest. Technically, would your character know he is about to find another party with the exact composition that would make use of his old group's items?

Are they all re-rolling as the same class?
#5

Seeker95

Jun 30, 2009 11:32:16 		What's wrong with it? Meta-gaming.

The new PCs are not yet your friends. Even if they are backstoried to already be your friends, why would your PC give these new friends all his old friends' stuff?

If I were your DM: I would either let the new PCs start with the old equipment *or* start with the DMG guidelines. My preference is the latter. Definitely not both.
#6

kgmessier

Jun 30, 2009 11:33:25
In my opinion as a DM: Since your character is the only one to survive, I would say to use what you can from their loot yourself and sell the rest.

Agreed. You get the loot and keep or sell it as you see fit. Presumably, you'll reap all the XP from the last encounter(s) that resulted in the other party fatalities, so you'll end up closer to level 5 than the rest of the party (assuming they start out at the base XP of level 4). Things will be a bit out of balance for a little while, but they can even out as you come across new items and distribute them among the members of the new party.

You need to reap some sort of benefit for being the sole survivor, and I think this approach is a fair reward.

- Keith
#7

kgmessier

Jun 30, 2009 11:38:34
What's wrong with it? Meta-gaming.

The new PCs are not yet your friends. Even if they are backstoried to already be your friends, why would your PC give these new friends all his old friends' stuff?

If I were your DM: I would either let the new PCs start with the old equipment *or* start with the DMG guidelines. My preference is the latter. Definitely not both.

Good point. Starting a new character at level 4 means they have a certain standard amount of gold and equipment already, but it's up to the player/DM to backstory how they ended up with all that stuff. Why not make the surviving character part of that backstory? That stuff could be part of what puts them at 4th level (along with their XP, ability scores, etc.).

- Keith
#8

Dane_McArdy

Jun 30, 2009 11:47:57
This is a question and there is no black and white answer so I thougth it might be better in general discussion

In my group everyone but me died. The plan is for me to get everyone's magic items so there new characters can have those to play with. They are creating new characters and buying new magic items also.

My question is this fair or does it make the new characters to powerful.

We are all level 4 and I still have +1 armor while everyone else well have 3 or magic items(including the ones I loot and what they buy. Should the loot I am taking be part of what they can buy and be taking away from there starting gold

The Character Builder actually has a feature that allows it to pick level appropriate equipment and gold for characters!
#9

Vilnias_Nastavnik

Jun 30, 2009 18:38:19 		Smells like a KODT dillema to me....
#10

countesskathleen

Jun 30, 2009 19:30:57
Agreed. You get the loot and keep or sell it as you see fit. Presumably, you'll reap all the XP from the last encounter(s) that resulted in the other party fatalities, so you'll end up closer to level 5 than the rest of the party (assuming they start out at the base XP of level 4). Things will be a bit out of balance for a little while, but they can even out as you come across new items and distribute them among the members of the new party.

You need to reap some sort of benefit for being the sole survivor, and I think this approach is a fair reward.

- Keith

I have to disagree passionately here. Regardless of who gets the old characters' items letting PCs die and replacing them increases total party wealth if the replacements are allowed to bring their own gear. If the deceased characters' equipment is not destroyed or beyond retrieval, I suggest the replacements receive only mundane gear and have to disenchant-enchant the old equipment or equip using party funds after associating with the lone survivor.

If you allow replacements to cherry-pick their gear according to the guidelines in a regular campaign, it's only a matter of time until the bard picks a greataxe as a weapon because he intends to die and reincarnate as a barbarian if you catch my drift... (Really they are already saving on resurrection cost and resurrection aftereffect, there's no need to add icing, chocolate chips and candles to the cake.)
#11

OleOneEye

Jun 30, 2009 19:50:20 		Buncha' cut-throat mercenaries here looting the bodies of their dead companions. What about:

Burying your companions with their items for use in the afterlife.
Giving the items to your companions' relatives.
Donating the items to a worthy church or the town guard.
Selling the items and throwing a big funeral celebration for your friends.
#12

kgmessier

Jun 30, 2009 20:00:28 		This situation does beg the question of how one gets all of that loot out of there. Could be difficult, depending on the particulars.

- Keith
#13

kgmessier

Jun 30, 2009 20:12:00
I have to disagree passionately here. Regardless of who gets the old characters' items letting PCs die and replacing them increases total party wealth if the replacements are allowed to bring their own gear. If the deceased characters' equipment is not destroyed or beyond retrieval, I suggest the replacements receive only mundane gear and have to disenchant-enchant the old equipment or equip using party funds after associating with the lone survivor.

If you allow replacements to cherry-pick their gear according to the guidelines in a regular campaign, it's only a matter of time until the bard picks a greataxe as a weapon because he intends to die and reincarnate as a barbarian if you catch my drift... (Really they are already saving on resurrection cost and resurrection aftereffect, there's no need to add icing, chocolate chips and candles to the cake.)

See post #7, which addresses that issue.
#14

daukoe

Jul 01, 2009 5:36:51
Buncha' cut-throat mercenaries here looting the bodies of their dead companions. What about:

Burying your companions with their items for use in the afterlife.
Giving the items to your companions' relatives.
Donating the items to a worthy church or the town guard.
Selling the items and throwing a big funeral celebration for your friends.

This. Or, you know, sell one or two magic items and get them raised. (I think someone mentioned that possibility already, actually)
#15

Nyarlathotep

Jul 01, 2009 8:41:08 		In my campaigns, we have always had an agreement that a dead characters magic items went to their offscreen family/church/whatever to prevent exactly the sort of dilemma in the OP. When a character dies, his items leave the campaign with him.
#16

countesskathleen

Jul 01, 2009 10:53:35
See post #7, which addresses that issue.

Admitted, I might have failed my reading comprehension check here but I don't see how you possibly have adressed that point and presented an applicable solution there.
#17

kgmessier

Jul 01, 2009 11:05:27
Admitted, I might have failed my reading comprehension check here but I don't see how you possibly have adressed that point and presented an applicable solution there.

You point out that allowing new PCs to bring their own gear, then adding the deceased PCs' equipment, increases the party's overall wealth. My suggestion in that post is to make the deceased PCs' equipment part of what would be the new PCs' "own gear."

If the deceased PCs' equipment gets the new PCs to, say, 90% what a typical fourth-level PC should have, then supplement that with another 10% of gear. If it's significantly over the 100% mark, you have another problem to deal with, which could be handled any of the ways already suggested by other posters.

- Keith
#18

countesskathleen

Jul 01, 2009 11:24:52
You point out that allowing new PCs to bring their own gear, then adding the deceased PCs' equipment, increases the party's overall wealth. My suggestion in that post is to make the deceased PCs' equipment part of what would be the new PCs' "own gear."

If the deceased PCs' equipment gets the new PCs to, say, 90% what a typical fourth-level PC should have, then supplement that with another 10% of gear. If it's significantly over the 100% mark, you have another problem to deal with, which could be handled any of the ways already suggested by other posters.

- Keith

Though that would prevent the most abusive of exploits, I stand by my point that it's a bad thing to give them money for dying which would happen if the replacements come with any kind of compensation for being 'underequipped'. The ideal situation for the party should always be to survive and take the treasure. Having party members die being even the slightest of a monetary advantage (regardless of whether only the survivor profits from it or the whole party) is setting the wrong incentives IMO.
#19

kgmessier

Jul 01, 2009 11:36:45
Though that would prevent the most abusive of exploits, I stand by my point that it's a bad thing to give them money for dying which would happen if the replacements come with any kind of compensation for being 'underequipped'. The ideal situation for the party should always be to survive and take the treasure. Having party members die being even the slightest of a monetary advantage (regardless of whether only the survivor profits from it or the whole party) is setting the wrong incentives IMO.

My suggestion assumes the replacements would not be compensated prior to their arrival. With regard to my earliest post, I admit it was shortsighted on my part to consider rewards for the survival of a few party members following the sacrifice of others.

If I were the DM in this scenario, I might implore the player to take a close look at his or her character's moral status, giving the player an opportunity to do the right thing. (Clearly, the definition of "the right thing" is open to interpretation.)

- Keith