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After the Red Box..

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bobeartow
Apr 22, 2011 0:41:17 What do I buy? Sorry if this question is in the wrong forum, but I cant seem to find out what to buy next. I know they say what book to buy, but it seems so general. Do I start with whatever I want, or is there a structure of what to buy? I'm very new to the game considering I just bought the Red Box.

Any input would help

Thanks!
#2
werlos
Apr 22, 2011 0:59:15 The 'Heroes of...' books would be a good idea. Or the old Player's Handbooks that have the non-essentials classes in them (conviniently labelled 1-3!).
#3
yronimosw
Apr 22, 2011 5:04:34 As a player, I'm pretty sure that either one of the "Heroes..." books from the Essentials line would be a great next after the "Red Box" set; pick the one (or both) that interests you, depending on the race/class combination you want to play.

Heroes of the Fallen Lands: Create and Play Clerics, Fighters, Rogues, and Wizards. This essential player book and its companion volume feature the essential elements of the game from a player’s point of view. This volume contains these classes—Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard—and these races—dwarf, eladrin, elf, halfling, and human.

Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms: Create and Play Druids, Paladins, Rangers, and Warlocks. This essential player book and its companion volume feature the essential elements of the game from a player’s point of view. This volume contains these classes—Druid, Paladin, Ranger, and Warlock—and these races—dragonborn, drow, half-elf, half-orc, and tiefling.

Your Dungeon Master would almost certain want to get the Essentials' Dungeon Master's Kit and Monster Vault next: the books included in these boxed sets are basically the latest versions of the Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual, and for DMs who like using pre-made adventures, the recommended party levels for the adventure booklets that come with those two products dovetail well with the one in the Red Box (levels 1&2 for the Red Box, and Levels 3 and 4 for the adventures in the other two products).

I've not seen the Essentials Rules Compendium yet, but the Wizards site suggests that it's an Essential product for both players and DMs; from what I can tell, I suppose you can think of it as an optional Advanced Rules book: handy to have around, but if you can't afford it, I think the game will run just fine without it.
#4
bobeartow
Apr 23, 2011 4:11:43 Okay awesome, I should also buy the first Player Handbook as well correct? As Werlos stated.

Thanks for the input guys
#5
Mysteria
Apr 23, 2011 8:24:42 PHB Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock, Warlord, Wizard classes, plus dragonborn, dwarf, eladrin, elf, half-elf, halfling, human, tielfing.

As you can see, there's quite some overlap. The classes are just build somewhat differently and have different options depending on which book you use.

I'd say pick whatever book has the most interesting combination of races and classes in your opinion.

edit: Werlos did say OR, not and.
#6
m4kitsu
Apr 24, 2011 2:55:45
Okay awesome, I should also buy the first Player Handbook as well correct?

That's really up to you.

The Essentials "Heroes of..." books serve as an entry-point into the game that will be very similar to the contents of the Red Box: the class presentations are formatted the same way and are designed to be "entry level" simple: they are uncomplicated and direct, and like the Red Box do most of your mechanical decision-making for you (particularly the Martial classes). They are good for rookie players and those who desire a "ready to play" experience without a lot of lead-in time.

The Player's Handbooks (vol. I, II, and III), by contrast, are an older, more complicated design. PHB classes typically have many more options and decisions to make then Essentials classes. This has the dual effect of making them both harder to manage and more in-depth to play. These are good for players who like customization options or are of a mind to play a more mechanically-complex character.

Both Essentials and PHB classes can coexist in the game, and playing one will not (under most circumstances) result in you feeling under- or over-powered compared to the rest of the party.

A word of caution if you decide to go with the PHBs, though: WotC has become a bit errata-happy in the last couple of years, and some of the things which appear in the PHB are out of date.

The Rules Compendium has the most complete version of the current rules, and is an Essentials book of the same type as the "Heroes of..." books.
#7
The_Kurgan
Apr 25, 2011 15:45:18 If you want an easier "pick up and play" style of character building, the Heroes of... books would be good (Heroes of the Fallen Lands has a set of more standard character classes, ie Knight, Slayer [big weapon guy, focused on damage] Thief, Warpriest, Mage, and it has more standard races, ie Dwarf, Elf, Eladrin [more or less high elf], halfling and human, so I'd suggest that first) The Heroes of books require very little time/effort to create a character, but because of this, provide very little option for customizability.

Otherwise, I'd suggest Player's handbook 1. It has pretty much anything you'd need to start up with a character, though there are a few feats and stuff that are behind the curve (Weapon expertise feats are much worse than the Axe/Bludgeon/ect expertise feats in the Heroes of books) I'd suggest, if you want to be economical, get a DDI subscription, since it has the character builder, and Compendium (I know it's a bit hypocrytical, since I quit my subscription, but at least, while starting out, it's worth the investment, so that you can look up needed feats, classes, powers, ect.
#8
The-Magic-Sword
Apr 27, 2011 20:23:13 ignore the posts here that talk about "4.5" (seriously, you guys'll probably just confuse them, we don't need to explain 3.0 vs 3.5, and everything associated with that)

Heroes of Fallen Lands/ heroes of Forgotten kingdoms, for the intended next step after the redbox (the DM kit and Monster vault too) the classes are simpler, but offer fewer freedoms. The complexity of play varies with these books, for example- mages have more keeping track of things to do than fighter types. From what i hear, they're entirely usable with all the other classes in the game, they just don't offer much customization and such... it reminds me of training wheels personally, but that's just me, it's definetly a step up from the red box.

Or you could go the other route, with the more complex, older, (and my preferred, it's up to taste) design. PHB I, the monster manual, and the DM's Guide (and whatever books have content that you want to use)... the classes use a standardized system of abilities that mean equal bookeeping (same amount of running numbers and what not) but also equally rewarding play- so the person playing them doesn't have to worry about whether the character they want to play will be *harder* than another, and all the classes get lots of choices.

if you need more info, feel free to PM me, both about this, and about your future issues, always happy to help out a newbie DND player.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bobeartow Apr 22, 2011 0:41:17	What do I buy? Sorry if this question is in the wrong forum, but I cant seem to find out what to buy next. I know they say what book to buy, but it seems so general. Do I start with whatever I want, or is there a structure of what to buy? I'm very new to the game considering I just bought the Red Box. Any input would help Thanks!
#2 werlos Apr 22, 2011 0:59:15	The 'Heroes of...' books would be a good idea. Or the old Player's Handbooks that have the non-essentials classes in them (conviniently labelled 1-3!).
#3 yronimosw Apr 22, 2011 5:04:34	As a player, I'm pretty sure that either one of the "Heroes..." books from the Essentials line would be a great next after the "Red Box" set; pick the one (or both) that interests you, depending on the race/class combination you want to play. Heroes of the Fallen Lands: Create and Play Clerics, Fighters, Rogues, and Wizards. This essential player book and its companion volume feature the essential elements of the game from a player’s point of view. This volume contains these classes—Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard—and these races—dwarf, eladrin, elf, halfling, and human. Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms: Create and Play Druids, Paladins, Rangers, and Warlocks. This essential player book and its companion volume feature the essential elements of the game from a player’s point of view. This volume contains these classes—Druid, Paladin, Ranger, and Warlock—and these races—dragonborn, drow, half-elf, half-orc, and tiefling. Your Dungeon Master would almost certain want to get the Essentials' Dungeon Master's Kit and Monster Vault next: the books included in these boxed sets are basically the latest versions of the Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual, and for DMs who like using pre-made adventures, the recommended party levels for the adventure booklets that come with those two products dovetail well with the one in the Red Box (levels 1&2 for the Red Box, and Levels 3 and 4 for the adventures in the other two products). I've not seen the Essentials Rules Compendium yet, but the Wizards site suggests that it's an Essential product for both players and DMs; from what I can tell, I suppose you can think of it as an optional Advanced Rules book: handy to have around, but if you can't afford it, I think the game will run just fine without it.
#4 bobeartow Apr 23, 2011 4:11:43	Okay awesome, I should also buy the first Player Handbook as well correct? As Werlos stated. Thanks for the input guys
#5 Mysteria Apr 23, 2011 8:24:42	PHB Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock, Warlord, Wizard classes, plus dragonborn, dwarf, eladrin, elf, half-elf, halfling, human, tielfing. As you can see, there's quite some overlap. The classes are just build somewhat differently and have different options depending on which book you use. I'd say pick whatever book has the most interesting combination of races and classes in your opinion. edit: Werlos did say OR, not and.
#6 m4kitsu Apr 24, 2011 2:55:45	Okay awesome, I should also buy the first Player Handbook as well correct? That's really up to you. The Essentials "Heroes of..." books serve as an entry-point into the game that will be very similar to the contents of the Red Box: the class presentations are formatted the same way and are designed to be "entry level" simple: they are uncomplicated and direct, and like the Red Box do most of your mechanical decision-making for you (particularly the Martial classes). They are good for rookie players and those who desire a "ready to play" experience without a lot of lead-in time. The Player's Handbooks (vol. I, II, and III), by contrast, are an older, more complicated design. PHB classes typically have many more options and decisions to make then Essentials classes. This has the dual effect of making them both harder to manage and more in-depth to play. These are good for players who like customization options or are of a mind to play a more mechanically-complex character. Both Essentials and PHB classes can coexist in the game, and playing one will not (under most circumstances) result in you feeling under- or over-powered compared to the rest of the party. A word of caution if you decide to go with the PHBs, though: WotC has become a bit errata-happy in the last couple of years, and some of the things which appear in the PHB are out of date. The Rules Compendium has the most complete version of the current rules, and is an Essentials book of the same type as the "Heroes of..." books.
#7 The_Kurgan Apr 25, 2011 15:45:18	If you want an easier "pick up and play" style of character building, the Heroes of... books would be good (Heroes of the Fallen Lands has a set of more standard character classes, ie Knight, Slayer [big weapon guy, focused on damage] Thief, Warpriest, Mage, and it has more standard races, ie Dwarf, Elf, Eladrin [more or less high elf], halfling and human, so I'd suggest that first) The Heroes of books require very little time/effort to create a character, but because of this, provide very little option for customizability. Otherwise, I'd suggest Player's handbook 1. It has pretty much anything you'd need to start up with a character, though there are a few feats and stuff that are behind the curve (Weapon expertise feats are much worse than the Axe/Bludgeon/ect expertise feats in the Heroes of books) I'd suggest, if you want to be economical, get a DDI subscription, since it has the character builder, and Compendium (I know it's a bit hypocrytical, since I quit my subscription, but at least, while starting out, it's worth the investment, so that you can look up needed feats, classes, powers, ect.
#8 The-Magic-Sword Apr 27, 2011 20:23:13	ignore the posts here that talk about "4.5" (seriously, you guys'll probably just confuse them, we don't need to explain 3.0 vs 3.5, and everything associated with that) Heroes of Fallen Lands/ heroes of Forgotten kingdoms, for the intended next step after the redbox (the DM kit and Monster vault too) the classes are simpler, but offer fewer freedoms. The complexity of play varies with these books, for example- mages have more keeping track of things to do than fighter types. From what i hear, they're entirely usable with all the other classes in the game, they just don't offer much customization and such... it reminds me of training wheels personally, but that's just me, it's definetly a step up from the red box. Or you could go the other route, with the more complex, older, (and my preferred, it's up to taste) design. PHB I, the monster manual, and the DM's Guide (and whatever books have content that you want to use)... the classes use a standardized system of abilities that mean equal bookeeping (same amount of running numbers and what not) but also equally rewarding play- so the person playing them doesn't have to worry about whether the character they want to play will be harder than another, and all the classes get lots of choices. if you need more info, feel free to PM me, both about this, and about your future issues, always happy to help out a newbie DND player.