Needless to say this does not endear the characters to eachother, me to the other player, or me to the DM for being complicit in this shutdowning BS. Half of why I'm retiring the character is because I'm sick to death of him just being ignored - With the focus on the character who's ignoring mine this leaves me with literally nothing to do all session and it just pisses me off.
So, the DM let slip last week that he doesn't like my character either. I already knew the other two players didn't like him, but when the DM says it it's time to pack it in. To be fair, the character tends to come off as whiny, he has strong beliefs and tends to be vocal when he's annoyed. Also, most of his personable traits are of the sort that get mocked, so I don't bother to even try doing them most of the time, so it ends up just being him talking when he's upset - See the journal incident, why even bother trying?
So, when the DM admits he doesn't like your character, it's time to pack said character up and have him suddenly have some pressing business elsewhere. This is easy enough, the character has personal goals that have been utterly unadressed in the campaign, so it's a simple matter of waiting for the current dungeon to end and him going off to do his own thing, and my new character I've been making is conveniently dropped in somewhere, he's a CN cleric of Olidammara who could believably show up pretty much anywhere from the middle of a dungeon to a *****house to a library. Simple, right?
Except no, the DM refuses to let me just have him leave. No, he has to *die*. And this is really cheesing me off. And I'm not even allowed something meaningful and dramatic that would be in character for him and leave him finished on a note that would leave me happy, no, he has assassins that from the sounds of it are just plain going to be godtier 4 or 5 CRs higher than he is hope you like pain after him now. Which puts him in the annoying to him position of endangering the party, since these people apparently don't leave witnesses, and me in the annoying as hell position of trying to figure out how I'm going to avoid this bit of railroading. Supposedly I might have some vague chance of escaping them, but grief.
If he wanted to focus on the character, sometime before I got so frustrated with trying to use him that I want to stop using him would have been nice. Something that ties into his backstory would be nice too, he could have assassins after him for backstory reasons, but this is related to something earlier in the campaign and has nothing to do with it. My new character, for the record, has a backstory that pretty much consists of 'yeah he was a thief but decided it wasn't for him so now he's a priest' since there seems little pointing in actually giving him anything deeper since I'm not the guy who gets away with everything and has the focus always on him. >_>
Plus dealing with this stuff trying to figure out how I might potentially have this vague chance of escape and how to try to make it so this character, whom I personally am very attached to, doesn't end up having some really crappy stupid death that feels like the DM just wanting to get back at me for trying to take him out of the campaign peacefully and just wanting to kill that character he hates... Ugh. I don't want to deal with it. I want him to go wander off and get my new character introduced so I can have a character I can actually use instead of one that gets ignored within ten minutes of the start of a session. I don't want my favourite character to be involved in some drawn-out thing that's just going to lead to him having a lame death that will potentially lead to the city my new character is from so he can eventually appear there. Especially since neither of the other characters will CARE to even want to go to said city. So it just feels pointless, delays getting the new guy in and makes me want to bang my head on the wall that the first focus my character has gotten is that he now has random assassins after him.
And no, the character isn't overpowered. He's Bard 4/Swashbuckler 5, has 17 AC, does terrible damage and I think he has the lowest HP in the group. He's not optimized or broken in anyway and most of his skills are the social skills the DM doesn't even let us use anyway - Which I wish the DM would have been clearer on beforehand, I would have just taken something like spot or listen cross-class. In fact another part of why I want to retire him is that due to his build being more suited for something the DM won't let us do anyway, he's pretty much completely USELESS mechancially.
So, he hasn't gotten to do anything as either a character or a collection of statistics, and that's frustrating too. And no, I don't try to rollplay all social encounters. It's annoying when I sit there and roleplay some exchange for 45 minutes and the DM won't let me roll Diplomacy to take into account that I am not, in fact, my character, and am thus not as convincing as he would be. Maybe he's afraid my +20 modifier would break something, but it's still annoying.
Urgh wow rambling. Anyway. Point of thread: Is it utterly unreasonable of me to just want to have my favourite character leave the party quietly, or if the DM absolutely MUST kill him, have him at least get some kind of meaningful death, either route leaving it open for my new character to come into it fairly quickly?
I've been told 'not to worry about' the other character who's left, the previous character of the guy with the LN Marshal, who did in fact leave peacefully, which had better mean that he's going to show up as an NPC we get to beat up or find dead or something later. -_-
Honestly I'd really just want to keep my current character but yeah, the getting shut down early on in sessions, constant mocking of his personality and his utter uselessness in the party mean he has to go. And the going is going to be drawn out and annoying, it seems.
Ideas? How should I proceed with trying to avoid this? Should I try to just put my foot down, or have the character just leave the party the instant we get out of the dungeon and stubbornly insist he got to somewhere safe, or refuse to accept the railroading and have my character just leave in the middle of the night in the middle of the dungeon?
Heh, my original idea for introducing the cleric, since he has the Trickery domain, was for that to have already happened - The old one had left in the middle of the night, switching places with the cleric, who would have been using Disguise Self to look like the old one as a massive practical joke. No such luck, though.
Ugh, the introduction of this stuff tonight as part of what was by far the worst session we've had yet, just has me really cheesed off and upset.
(Somewhere in here, I suppose, is also buried a 'should I leave this group' rant. I wonder if I should link this thread to my DM.)
:<
So I'm retiring a character. He doesn't fit in with the party, and nobody in the group but me likes him. He's a Bard/Swashbuckler who does such uncool things as keep a journal, the revelation of which was mocked both in and out of character, much to my vast annoyance. He's CG in a party with a NG dwarf fighter whose player doesn't RP and a LN elf marshal who is apparently undead or something that the focus has been on almost solely for the last four or five sessions. Said LN character has the leadership feat and a bunch of cohorts we spend plenty of time on the handling of, and tends to toward the beginning of the session have his player comment on how the character is ignoring everything mine says or does henceforth - Happened tonight, ironically not long after I'd given up on doing anything anyway since I clearly wasn't going to get anywhere with the NPC and it was obviously something the other guy's character was supposed to handle.
Needless to say this does not endear the characters to eachother, me to the other player, or me to the DM for being complicit in this shutdowning BS. Half of why I'm retiring the character is because I'm sick to death of him just being ignored - With the focus on the character who's ignoring mine this leaves me with literally nothing to do all session and it just pisses me off.
So, the DM let slip last week that he doesn't like my character either. I already knew the other two players didn't like him, but when the DM says it it's time to pack it in. To be fair, the character tends to come off as whiny, he has strong beliefs and tends to be vocal when he's annoyed. Also, most of his personable traits are of the sort that get mocked, so I don't bother to even try doing them most of the time, so it ends up just being him talking when he's upset - See the journal incident, why even bother trying?
So, when the DM admits he doesn't like your character, it's time to pack said character up and have him suddenly have some pressing business elsewhere. This is easy enough, the character has personal goals that have been utterly unadressed in the campaign, so it's a simple matter of waiting for the current dungeon to end and him going off to do his own thing, and my new character I've been making is conveniently dropped in somewhere, he's a CN cleric of Olidammara who could believably show up pretty much anywhere from the middle of a dungeon to a *****house to a library. Simple, right?
Except no, the DM refuses to let me just have him leave. No, he has to *die*. And this is really cheesing me off. And I'm not even allowed something meaningful and dramatic that would be in character for him and leave him finished on a note that would leave me happy, no, he has assassins that from the sounds of it are just plain going to be godtier 4 or 5 CRs higher than he is hope you like pain after him now. Which puts him in the annoying to him position of endangering the party, since these people apparently don't leave witnesses, and me in the annoying as hell position of trying to figure out how I'm going to avoid this bit of railroading. Supposedly I might have some vague chance of escaping them, but grief.
If he wanted to focus on the character, sometime before I got so frustrated with trying to use him that I want to stop using him would have been nice. Something that ties into his backstory would be nice too, he could have assassins after him for backstory reasons, but this is related to something earlier in the campaign and has nothing to do with it. My new character, for the record, has a backstory that pretty much consists of 'yeah he was a thief but decided it wasn't for him so now he's a priest' since there seems little pointing in actually giving him anything deeper since I'm not the guy who gets away with everything and has the focus always on him. >_>
Plus dealing with this stuff trying to figure out how I might potentially have this vague chance of escape and how to try to make it so this character, whom I personally am very attached to, doesn't end up having some really crappy stupid death that feels like the DM just wanting to get back at me for trying to take him out of the campaign peacefully and just wanting to kill that character he hates... Ugh. I don't want to deal with it. I want him to go wander off and get my new character introduced so I can have a character I can actually use instead of one that gets ignored within ten minutes of the start of a session. I don't want my favourite character to be involved in some drawn-out thing that's just going to lead to him having a lame death that will potentially lead to the city my new character is from so he can eventually appear there. Especially since neither of the other characters will CARE to even want to go to said city. So it just feels pointless, delays getting the new guy in and makes me want to bang my head on the wall that the first focus my character has gotten is that he now has random assassins after him.
And no, the character isn't overpowered. He's Bard 4/Swashbuckler 5, has 17 AC, does terrible damage and I think he has the lowest HP in the group. He's not optimized or broken in anyway and most of his skills are the social skills the DM doesn't even let us use anyway - Which I wish the DM would have been clearer on beforehand, I would have just taken something like spot or listen cross-class. In fact another part of why I want to retire him is that due to his build being more suited for something the DM won't let us do anyway, he's pretty much completely USELESS mechancially.
So, he hasn't gotten to do anything as either a character or a collection of statistics, and that's frustrating too. And no, I don't try to rollplay all social encounters. It's annoying when I sit there and roleplay some exchange for 45 minutes and the DM won't let me roll Diplomacy to take into account that I am not, in fact, my character, and am thus not as convincing as he would be. Maybe he's afraid my +20 modifier would break something, but it's still annoying.
Urgh wow rambling. Anyway. Point of thread: Is it utterly unreasonable of me to just want to have my favourite character leave the party quietly, or if the DM absolutely MUST kill him, have him at least get some kind of meaningful death, either route leaving it open for my new character to come into it fairly quickly?
I've been told 'not to worry about' the other character who's left, the previous character of the guy with the LN Marshal, who did in fact leave peacefully, which had better mean that he's going to show up as an NPC we get to beat up or find dead or something later. -_-
Honestly I'd really just want to keep my current character but yeah, the getting shut down early on in sessions, constant mocking of his personality and his utter uselessness in the party mean he has to go. And the going is going to be drawn out and annoying, it seems.
Ideas? How should I proceed with trying to avoid this? Should I try to just put my foot down, or have the character just leave the party the instant we get out of the dungeon and stubbornly insist he got to somewhere safe, or refuse to accept the railroading and have my character just leave in the middle of the night in the middle of the dungeon?
Heh, my original idea for introducing the cleric, since he has the Trickery domain, was for that to have already happened - The old one had left in the middle of the night, switching places with the cleric, who would have been using Disguise Self to look like the old one as a massive practical joke. No such luck, though.
Ugh, the introduction of this stuff tonight as part of what was by far the worst session we've had yet, just has me really cheesed off and upset.
(Somewhere in here, I suppose, is also buried a 'should I leave this group' rant. I wonder if I should link this thread to my DM.)
:<
Wow, I read all of that, I deserve a cookie or something 8). Honestly, it sounds like the DM and maybe the other player's have an issue with you personally. I can only conclude that given not only are they treating you like crap, but that there is a double standard in play (the other guy's character got to leave peacfully) that its personal. You have got to ask yourself why they are so bent on killing your character and shutting you down, instead of trying to be reasonable and work it out with you. Sorry dude, its not the character they are actually taking shots at, its you. If this is the best they can do for you, then they are wasting your time, and killing any enjoyment you might get from gaming with them. There is no compelling reason I can discern, based on your post, why you should continue with this group. Drop them and find a group and DM who will let you play, not just stick you in the group and ignore/mistreat you. My 2 cents, hope it helps.
Urgh wow rambling. Anyway. Point of thread: Is it utterly unreasonable of me to just want to have my favourite character leave the party quietly, or if the DM absolutely MUST kill him, have him at least get some kind of meaningful death, either route leaving it open for my new character to come into it fairly quickly?
In all the games that I have played in and run we allowed people to retire their character if they are unhappy with it.
Honestly I'd really just want to keep my current character but yeah, the getting shut down early on in sessions, constant mocking of his personality and his utter uselessness in the party mean he has to go. And the going is going to be drawn out and annoying, it seems.
Ideas? How should I proceed with trying to avoid this? Should I try to just put my foot down, or have the character just leave the party the instant we get out of the dungeon and stubbornly insist he got to somewhere safe, or refuse to accept the railroading and have my character just leave in the middle of the night in the middle of the dungeon?
:<
I would talk to the DM before the next game session and talk to him about how upset you are. If he is going to railroad that your bard/swashbuckler has to die so that you can bring in a new character, I would remind him next time one of the others try to retire their characters.
If your DM is making you not have fun, you can always leave his game and try to find another game to play in.
When you get out of the dungeon, say "My chaacter walks off into the sunset to follow his dream to X".
i feel for you. If the group are your friends, then why are they treating you like that?
When you get out of the dungeon, say "My chaacter walks off into the sunset to follow his dream to X".
Agreed. No point riding the DM's FAILroad.
On the other hand ... I'd be interested, were it I, to see how this assassin thing plays out. Stick close to your party ... since those assassins don't leave witnesses (supposedly), see if the DM follows through and kills the other PCs or if they suddenly drop in, whack you, then get curbstomped by the others.
If I were in your shoes, I'd begin hunting about for a group more amenable to my style of play.
What you have experienced is bad D&D.
The first thing you need to do is talk to your DM. Have the conversation away from the game session, preferably just you and him. You need to calmly explain things to him -- explain what you see as the favoritism, the railroading, and so on. Give him a chance to respond. Maybe he has some great plot point in mind, and you wanting to take this character out of the game gives him the opportunity to present that plot point, for example.
It's really important to remain calm during this conversation. Again, presumably you and he are friends. Friends should be able to talk about this sort of thing without resorting to name calling, finger pointing, and all that other crap.
If a private conversation doesn't resolve your conflict, your best course of action is to simply leave the group. Don't make a big fuss about it; don't "go nova" with your character and try to take everybody out with you. Just explain that you think it's best to stop playing, but if a new game starts you'd possibly be interested in joining.
Urgh wow rambling.
Wall of text crits! I survived the impact though.
Yup, as others have said, it sounds like this might be personal. Or at least, it's of personal interest to you, and it's not in any way unreasonable to have a slight attachment to your character.
If you're interested in staying with this group, you need to have a personal talk with the DM, and probably talks with the other players, too. It's possible they don't quite realize that their behavior affects you personally.
If you don't clear this up, and instead just go with having your old guy assassinated and your new guy show up, it doesn't sound like much will have changed. Be prepared to continue to be ignored in favor of cohort-wrangling and railroading. You'll continue to be annoyed at this, and I get the feeling the others will continue to be annoyed at you.
Ideas? How should I proceed with trying to avoid this?
Easy. Once the party ruturns to town & you split loot etc, just quit the game for a few weeks. Take some time off. Then return and make your new character.
Sure, the DM can try & claim whatever he wants about what happened to your old character, but does that really matter? Afterall, it's your character and you weren't even playing. So it's just the DM talking.....
-Drillboss
In fact another part of why I want to retire him is that due to his build being more suited for something the DM won't let us do anyway, he's pretty much completely USELESS mechancially.
I'm confused by this. What do you mean? Because if you are talking about roleplaying, then no build is "More suited" to it. You can be good mechanically and still be a good RP character.
I'm confused by this. What do you mean? Because if you are talking about roleplaying, then no build is "More suited" to it. You can be good mechanically and still be a good RP character.
He means more suited to social situations, not roleplaying. Roleplaying doesn't really need rules, you can do it all the time, true. If he's specced out for Diplomacy and Appraise and Craft (expecting this to be a more social game) and he never gets into town, however, then he's not as suited for combat.
Wow, I read all of that, I deserve a cookie or something 8). Honestly, it sounds like the DM and maybe the other player's have an issue with you personally. I can only conclude that given not only are they treating you like crap, but that there is a double standard in play (the other guy's character got to leave peacfully) that its personal. You have got to ask yourself why they are so bent on killing your character and shutting you down, instead of trying to be reasonable and work it out with you. Sorry dude, its not the character they are actually taking shots at, its you. If this is the best they can do for you, then they are wasting your time, and killing any enjoyment you might get from gaming with them. There is no compelling reason I can discern, based on your post, why you should continue with this group. Drop them and find a group and DM who will let you play, not just stick you in the group and ignore/mistreat you. My 2 cents, hope it helps.
Ditto.
I was in a situation where everyone except me and one other were spellcasters, I and the other were rogues with me focusing on archery, and the cohorts were the melee guys. Keep in mind this was a 3.0 game as opposed to 3.5. All the spellcasters were happy to dedicate a whole bunch of their spell slots on the various ability buffing spells (1d4+1 lasting 1 hour per level in 3.0) with a few even being Empowered. There were a few other types of buff spells abound too. They would willy nilly cast them on themselves, each other, their cohorts, and the other rogue every in-game day. We were around 10th level so they lasted the day of adventuring. They would never give me even a Cat's Grace.
It was annoying being left out. After a few real world weeks of this I humbly asked for a buff spell. I was told I had to wait until everyone else was done. Next week I waited until everyone was done then I asked for one. They were out. As it so happens, we were then in a long dungeon crawl adventure that took several game sessions to finish. There were lots of undead. I couldn't sneak attack. They had some magic DR such that my normal arrows were doing diddly squat. I asked for someone to cast Greater Magic Weapon on my arrows so that I could be more effective in combat. Oh the yelling I received. How dare I "demand" someone cast a spell for me. How dare I "force" someone to dedicate a spell slot for me. "Just buy your own damn +1 arrows" they would tell me, while we're in the middle of a dungeon and not leaving anytime soon. Oh, I did get a Bull's Strength at this point. How effective for a rogue that uses a long bow (not Composite) with a level or two in Order of the Bow Initiate Prestige Class. (DM was kind in letting me use the 3.5 version which is easier for a rogue to enter.) When I finally got Greater Magic Weapon it was out of resentment, and it turned out we wrapped up the dungeon that day in 2 real world hours and left thus I didn't "need" the spell anymore.
It took a while, but I finally got the hint I wasn't welcomed and left. My annoyance and not having fun finally overcame my desire to play. It wasn't my only gaming group. I joined it when my regular group was on hiatus a bit yet I still wanted to play D&D, and the contrast was alarming. With my regular group we never isolate a party member like that and always help when for whatever reason a particular character is in a suboptimal situation.
the logical (lawful) side of me says to talk it out with these people, and IF that doesn't work find a different gaming group, but the vindictive (chaotic) side of me says since you're in a dungeon be reckless and try to get yourself killed and if the DM wants you for his plot make him save you from yourself.
I recommend against "walking away" physically at least.
If the DM is unwilling to let you swwitch characters, RP slipping into a clinical depression, subtly not use your dailies, then after a bit don't even use your encounters, then stop using your class powers, and eventually don't even use at wills , just basic attack or nothing at all.
If they ask why you're not using power X or Y, explain in character that he's sullen and depressed cause the big important thing he needs to do is constantly overshadowed by the other players BS.
Then ask the DM to change characters again, if he still says no. Don't wake up the next guy for his watch during the extended rest, and kill yourself. Slipping a note to the DM as people reset themselves back to full should be enough to get the point across that you don't want to play the character any longer. Then just refuse any Raise attempts or DM intervention to stop you.
If needed explain the situation to the DM(again).
or coup de grace the character that keeps getting in the way, and the rest of his followers and whatnot, you've got stealth(guessing) use it! a few notes passed and dice rolled, Without the DM being involved(probably don't want to explain too much to the guy you're killing either...just 'hey, roll some spot and listen checks for you and your guys') and BOOM complete reversal of the dynamic of the group.
-My character is a veteran soldier whose perform is based on sound tactics and leadership qualities, not singing or lute playing. He is also exceptionally skilled with a sword as well as the more the refined arena of politics and intrigue. He has also either saved the life of, or bested in one on one combat almost all of the other PC's.
-However I'm pretty sure there's a rule somewhere that no matter how effective or useful you actually are, if your character sheet says "Bard" then it must be interpreted by the other players as "Foofy effete goober that didn't want to play a real hero" and as such I have to constantly deal with bad french-man jokes and berets.
I've seen this in every game that I've played or run and had a bard in attendance, Regardless of how the character is actually played. And of course if your living up to the stereotype it will be even worse.
For leaving the game with that character if he says you're attacked by ninjas, advise him that although retired it is a player character and it is against the spirit of the game to kill a character that is not at the table without playing out an encounter, that's how NPC's die, your character does not fit that description. If he asks to play it out let him know that you unfortunately left the character at home, maybe next time.
Of course you could always just run a game of your own on a different night, there shouldn't be any hurt feelings if they're all invited. Don't be vindictive, just make sure that when there is role-playing involved ask for the appropriate diplomacy/bluff checks ;)
We play online, which doesn't help much. I'm more or less friends with the dwarf fighter's player and the DM, the one with the annoying Marshal doesn't get along with me out of character either, and we always end up making characters that clash, especially if he makes a new one midway through the campaign. To be fair my new cleric is kind of a reaction character in a way. Oh, I want to play him and I like him a lot, but he's not what I would normally want to make. He's annoying, and intended to be. Ironically I think he'll fit in far better. :P
Celenden, my current character, is in fact very much the stereotypical Bard in many ways - He sings, he does it frequently, he keeps a journal, he's generally peaceful, he's merciful, he's nice, he genuinely wants to help people and make the world a better place. He's the kind of person I dearly wish the real world had more of and when I get the chance to actually play him to the full extent of that I enjoy the hell out of him. He is of course also a warrior besides being a bard and all around nice guy, but it's mostly something he does to back up his happy pretty ideas if stuff goes wrong.
The rest of the group makes manly mcman 'badasses'. Hence jerk cleric.
Celenden has 12 CON so his HP isn't great, and basic studded leather. Only his 18 DEX gives him even the 17 AC he has - We started this current campaign at 7th level, but the DM apparently has some objection to equipment, as we were allowed only items from the PHB, only one of which could be masterwork.
He uh... Wonders why we have trouble fighting things like the Babau he sent against us that has DR 10/Cold Iron(Most of us have 1d6 or 1d8 weapons...) that can only really be successfully fought with magical weapons that get saves to not be melted by its slime. We found a cold iron longsword in that dungeon, which left me as the only one able to successfully attack the thing, and I can't really effectively use longswords. We were doing pretty badly against it. <_>; We 'won' by not killing it and the battle sorceror we had back then before he quit just using Mage Hand to swipe the book we were there to get and both of us using Mirror Image to run without it being able to catch us until we were able to get to another room where we were able to use the book and a summoning circle to send it back to the Abyss. The DM was not expecting this at all. <_>;
So he's, as a melee character, kind of out of luck, but thankfully we don't fight much.
See, the thing with the social skills and feeling useless because he's built for that skills-wise - We talk to NPCs a lot. This is a campaign with a story and interaction with NPCs. Cel is built to be good at this. The problem is, every time I ask if I can roll Diplomacy, he tends to not notice or ignore it or outright say no.
I talked to him today about this and how it felt like it had been pointless for me to even try talking to this last NPC. "Well, Scrub(Marshal's player) is better at diplomacy than you are" was the response. To which I pointed out that social skills are supposed to compensate for EXACTLY that - I am not my character, and Diplomacy covers the abstract concept of how my character is actually good at something I am not. Else why even try to make characters that aren't exactly like me? If he only wants to go off what we come up with to say as players and how much it impresses him, there's no reason for me to even try to have my character negotiate - The other player is, in fact, better at coming up with stuff than me, he's been playing longer, etc. If we can't use social skills to compensate for the fact that I do not IRL have 14 CHA and a good diplomacy modifier, there's no reason at all for me to not just leave it to the other guy.
He said 'well I can't accept rolls without an action', to which I pointed out that talking to an NPC for 45 minutes kind of does constitute an action and a Diplomacy roll is an abstraction of how well my *character* presented himself and his tone of voice and such, since there is far more to human interaction than just the words you say. I think he actually got it and that I've gotten him to realise that I'm not trying to just be 'oh an NPC I roll diplomacy oh look at that 16+20 I am awesome I win'. I do roleplay the social encounters. Maybe he's just afraid of my +20 Diplomacy modifier and thinks it's minmaxed to death. Which it really isn't, one of the skill synergies on it I didn't even remember about for a while because it was on a skill I took ranks in since we do deal with NPCs alot and it helps compensate for my 8 WIS. And it could be +27 if I really wanted to be a jerk with it, plus I could have taken Charm Person as a spell... If I WANTED to powergame and break stuff I could, but I don't.
I also brought up the points with the whole 'why can't my character just leave' thing. He initially got insulted and made a sarcastic 'oh I'm sorry it was wrong of me to put you in a game scenario where something bad might happen to you.' reply, but I think eventually after pointing out that whoa wait hold the friggin phone that is NOT what I meant I got him to understand what my problem is - That there's still plenty of chance for the character to die before the end of the dungeon, and that heaping extra danger that pretty much only effects him on my character just feels like he's trying to say 'no screw you your annoying character has to die you can't have him peacefully leave'.
He said that he is, in fact, trying to put the spotlight on my character. Which... Yeah, he's doing it wrong, in a way even *I* don't care about, at the worst possible time - I want to be rid of this character, as attached to him as I am, and while we've been focusing on the other guy's backstory stuff even this attempted shift doesn't have anything to do with mine or my character's goals so it kind of feels like 'why did I write up my backstory and give it to you if you're not going to use it at all'. I think I got him to understand that and I think he might decide to work something in that actually does tie into it now that I've made the suggestion of exactly how to go about that. Which, OK, if it actually ties into the character's goals and could lead to the completion of them or at least progress on them, I'm more willing to go along with it.
Of course this brings up problems - The Marshal is in fact kind of sort of undead, and Cel is very religious and his patron god, isn't exactly a fan of the undead. (No, I have no idea how one is 'kind of' undead either. Not even going to go there.) I don't lose the cleric powers I don't have for putting up with him, but Cel still isn't going to like it and honestly would try to either destroy the horrible abomination or get away from it. Additionally, even the NG Fighter doesn't care(His player doesn't like the character and doesn't like RPing), and the Marshal especially doesn't - He's loyal to his men and does his best to protect him, but Cel isn't one of his men. And my character himself, his natural reaction is 'I know where there's a portal to Sigil, and my presence here is endangering these people I want to protect, I have to leave them as soon as possible and get out of this plane of existence entirely so we'll all be safe'. So... Er. Keeping the party together is going to be... Interesting. Neither of the others is going to want to try to protect my character, and my character isn't going to want to stay either. Which... Yeah, I'm not sure how he expects this to work. >_>; Party doesn't care, character's reaction is 'get out of dodge'.
He still doesn't want to let me just have the character leave. I think he's realised that yeah, my character kind of has completely gotten ignored and hasn't had a chance to be useful and is trying to compensate for it a little too late. Which, OK, but when even I kind of don't want to do it is a bad time. Plus the handling of the CURRENT character in the spotlight makes me leery because I don't want everyone else sitting there bored to death with my character being the centre of everything. It's why I so seldom force myself to the forefront of things, I don't want to be that jerk who hogs the spotlight and all the character time, because I know too well what it's like to be the guy who isn't getting to do anything.
I guess for now I'll go along with it and see how things go and what he's going to try to pull to actually keep the party together... But yeah if it gets too railroady or stupid I'm going to put my foot down and say no.
The primary reason I don't leave the group is that it is the guy's first time DMing, and that if I leave he'll be down to 2 people and probably won't be able to continue. I want him to get better because there are a lot of things that he *does* do right as a DM, but the things he does wrong drive me up a wall.
If nothing else, my DMing has improved tenfold from this, and I've never DMed. But I'm getting some great lessons in what not to do. XD;
Actually this is giving me the confidence to want to actually try it after this ends, for better or for worse - The DM is an awesome player who makes fun, crazy characters, and I keep thinking 'Well I can't be worse than some of the stuff that's happened, I should go for it'.
But yeah, thanks again for the advice and the reassurance that no, I'm not just being a rampaging hosebeast about this. XD;
Our work is done here. *rides off*
*holds up arms*
WOOSH!
*runs away like Freakazoid*
I like to give notice before I do something. Make my displeasure known, because it would feel really jerk-y if I just up and quit without warning. Which, yeah, pretty much everyone else has already been a jerk to me, but I'd rather not sink directly to that level myself.
Everyone should have sat down beforehand and addressed expectations of play.
I will disagree with you about the whole diplomacy angle.
The die roll shouldn't be your diplomacy attempt. Saying "I talk to they guy for 45 minutes. How well did I do?" isn't roleplaying in my eyes. It doesn't matter if you feel your social graces are up to the level of your character's, you still need to give some effort into the character, otherwise your character is nothing but stats on paper.
I totally disagree with the other posters about this being everyone esle's fault and not yours. It's both.
1. I am the primary DM in my group. If I ever told a player that he couldn't just retire a character and that the character instead had to die I would expect a) to get punched in the nuts b) to have one or more players seriously consider quitting and c) they'd probably take the snacks with them.
2. I agree with Quiterjon to an extent. Even with a great Diplomacy modifier, you should have to actually talk, communicate, etc. I'm not a big fan of "I want him to give us a few men. *Roll* 31 on my Diplomacy check?" To me, what you actually say could be used as a modifier to the Diplomacy roll (maybe not a big one, but a modifier all the same). I see Diplomacy more as how compelling your argument is rather than the argument itself if that makes sense.
3. One of the biggest problems I've encountered as a DM is tying in backstories without boring other players. This is very difficult, particularly if your group doesn't get together regularly and/or does not play really fast. With my group, running a little side trek for one of the PCs could literally take 5 - 6 months in real world time because of our schedules, etc. So, in other words, particularly if this is your friend's first DMing gig, don't be so hard on him in this aspect.
4. It really sounds as though you will always have a problem with the player of the Marshall. Unfortunately, this likely means the best solution may well be to simply either leave the group or get the Marshall to leave. Running the game yourself could potentially help, but it seems likely that the Marshall may just want to ruin your game too. Different players often have different styles, etc. that won't mesh. The problem is that this almost always leads to at least one or more players not having fun. May be better to just walk away.
5. Kudos for trying to work it out like an adult. I have never been a fan of trying to disrupt the game. If it gets bad enough, you can just walk, but there's no need to ruin it for everyone else too.
However, I don't think its only the game being run online. Your DM sounds incredibly immature. He needs to understand that he can't cater to two players, while the third one is either ignored or made to feel useless. If you prefer playing a character geared for social interaction, the DM should either accomodate your wishes, or suggest a character better suited to his campaign. Rather than do either, the DM is picking on you.
I suggest you walk away, and find another group, one that will accomodate your style of play.
I will disagree with you about the whole diplomacy angle.
The die roll shouldn't be your diplomacy attempt. Saying "I talk to they guy for 45 minutes. How well did I do?" isn't roleplaying in my eyes. It doesn't matter if you feel your social graces are up to the level of your character's, you still need to give some effort into the character, otherwise your character is nothing but stats on paper.
Re-read his posts. He didn't say, "I talk to the guy for 45 minutes," he actually RPed out talking to the guy for 45 minutes ... and didn't get to make a well-deserved check.
Re-read his posts. He didn't say, "I talk to the guy for 45 minutes," he actually RPed out talking to the guy for 45 minutes ... and didn't get to make a well-deserved check.
A well-deserved check? Why is it deserved?
Talking with an NPC for 45 minutes about the weather does not grant you the secret formula for scooby-doo snacks.
The Op never said "The Dm and I roleplayed for 45 minutes"
He said
'well I can't accept rolls without an action', to which I pointed out that talking to an NPC for 45 minutes kind of does constitute an action and a Diplomacy roll is an abstraction of how well my *character* presented himself and his tone of voice and such, since there is far more to human interaction than just the words you say.
It doesn't make any sense, that the Dm would say "well I can't accept rolls without an action" if he had just spent 45 minutes of actual time roleplaying the action.
I'm not even sure what the DM was talking about with that 'not accepting rolls without an action' line, honestly. It was in response to my noting that the social skills are there to compensate for the players not being the characters after he'd noted 'well other player does a better job at diplomacy than you, you can hardly blame me'. Maybe he thought I wanted to just be able to roll a die and not do anything, which is not at all true.
And no it doesn't make sense, but oftentimes neither does the DM. Such as the infamous session in which a masterwork weapon suddenly had the masterwork property give it +1 to damage as well as attack rolls, and it also randomly got +3 extra damage for being made of diamond. Which rules ignoring led to none of us thinking of anything about the golems we were fighting while seperated taking critical hits. Turned out we were fighting eachother and were supposed to notice this from such inconsistencies - Except in a session filled with them it didn't even stand out. Heh, I came within a round of dying before the NPC with me got me stable because I was the one getting attacked with Uberspear that ignores rules and was also solo except for said NPC, who kept not taking his turns, trying to fight the dwarf fighter... (And the DM wonders why I took this latest twist, which is apparently supposed to be some kind of 'oh now it's your turn in the spotlight' thing I don't even want, as just being him wanting to kill my character off...)
Honestly I don't think it would have mattered even if I'd said the exact same things as the other player, been allowed a Diplomacy roll to see how well my words and tone affected them and rolled a natural 20. It was the other character's show and it really just came across like all my efforts were doomed from the beginning and even trying was pointless. In fact I only even bothered trying to negotiate because it's what my character would have done and the Marshal was initially trying to call them out to battle, which my character was horribly opposed to having happen, especially since we were trapped and in a bad situation. (Yeah he tries to start a fight and then later says two things and suddenly we're all like friends or something. Er what. And if this was supposed to indicate that my attempts had actually had an effect, it... Didn't.)
It's not just this one instance, either, pretty much every time I've asked if I can roll diplomacy when trying to get someone to do something or convince someone of something it's been ignored or he said no. He claims that he hadn't been meaning to come across as this and had figured we would just announce we were doing it and do it. (I never assume I can do something, and always ask if I can.) He says he'll allow them in the future but I'm kind of skeptical. Hence my next character being a cleric with 8 CHA and no ranks in social skills except Bluff for the synergy bonus to diguise and sleight of hand.
Do you really think bringing in another character is going to eleviate the problems currently plagueing the game?
Just kidding lol, sorry.
Seriously the people kinda suck, I don't see what issues they got with you, but it seems it's kinda personal. I just wouldn't game with them anymore. I just had to part from my year long gaming group around 2 weeks ago as well. What can I say man, sorry for what happened there, it really sucks. I can relate.
I say get a new group or at least try. Sometimes changes should be made and they could be for the better.
'should I leave this group'
Yes.
/thread
I'd find another group. Screw retiring the character. Based on the original post (presuming it accurately presents the issue) I'd say you're screwed either way and anything you do is going to have about the same result.
I'd pack my crap and find a new camp.
Agreed. No point riding the DM's FAILroad.
On the other hand ... I'd be interested, were it I, to see how this assassin thing plays out. Stick close to your party ... since those assassins don't leave witnesses (supposedly), see if the DM follows through and kills the other PCs or if they suddenly drop in, whack you, then get curbstomped by the others.
I actually agree with Salla here.
Yeah, I'm shocked too..