An Encounter just is too difficult, DM not budging - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

An Encounter just is too difficult, DM not budging

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jimramar
Jul 23, 2009 1:55:06 So, I'm playing 4e with three friends, one of which is the DM. We are currently level four and in a party of five (the DM is playing a bard and cleric who we rescued earlier in the current adventure). My two friends and I are a Wizard, Fighter and Rogue (me). In the last encounter, we faced a necromancer with two large bodyguards, but the encounter became much simpler when our wizard slept everyone. However, just after a Young Black Dragon (MM 75) came to stop us from ruining his plans (he was behind everything and we were sort of in his lair). So, we fight. We try our best to stay in character and keep it cool as a dragon comes down on us, but then he uses Cloud of Darkness. Suddenly the fight got very frustrating. A few rounds went by of me (rogue) and the fighter blindly trying to it the dragon and our wizard trying to even see it while the bard and cleric (DM) tried to keep us alive. After we are all out of powers, we break character and ask the DM if there is any possible other way that we can end this encounter in a way other than our slow but eventual death. We suggested a series of skill challenges to escape the lair or maybe taking out the darkness cloud. So, for a round the DM took out the Cloud of Darkness and the fighter and I laid into the dragon with all we had while the wizard cast spells and the bard and cleric twiddled their thumbs. After one round and some lucky rolls we manged to do half of the dragons HP in damage and the DM decided that the cloud just needed to go back on. This resulted in our Wizard getting very upset and just running around doing nothing while the fighter and I hoped to roll high and stab at the dragon until it eventually died (lucky!). While we did kill the beast, we were rewarded with just gold and frustration.
My biggest concern was that one of our PCs did nothing for two hours (the wizard) and that DM was not willing to change the encounter in anyway to amend this.
What is a player to do?
Thanks
Mers, Human Rogue
#2
gregt_314
Jul 23, 2009 2:47:04 As with all problems, bring it up with your DM out-of-session, emphasising that you generally like his game and you want to keep playing, and talking about how the problem makes you, personally, feel and how and why you'd enjoy the game more if he made a change.

If that doesn't work, vote with your feet. Start your own non-sucky game and invite the other players.
#3
slobo777a
Jul 23, 2009 3:01:23 You may be trying (or being forced into) inappropriate tactics.

Although it will not involve all characters, the best way of dealing with a total concealment power is:

a) Retreat to long range - out of range of Dragon's breath weapon unless they emerge.
b) Anyone with an area effect at-will throws it into the cloud of darkness each round.
c) Anyone with a ranged attack, readies an action to attack the dragon as soon as it peeps out from the cloud
d) Melee combatants similarly ready a charge action (provided they don't put themselves at risk of a breath attack each round). Or hold, waiting for a chance to use an Action Point on a big-hitter

Use of daze, immobilise, forced movement etc can also increase your control over the dragon.

If you cannot retreat to long range in the current environment, then retreat fully and reconsider your options.
#4
AaronOfBarbaria
Jul 23, 2009 3:13:43 I think that there are a lot of things to consider here... the main one that comes to mind: What powers did the Wizard have?

Speaking mostly just on at-wills, there are as many that would have suffered no penalty to their attacks against the dragon in it's darkness as there are that would (that I can think of)... so I guess I am just really saying this: Are you absolutely sure the Wizard wasn't just letting his frustration get the best of him?

It happens to the best of us.
#5
kouk
Jul 23, 2009 5:47:09 Black Dragons are notoriously difficult by the continual existence of their cloud of darkness. But...

I'm curious why you did have to fight it and couldn't just walk away. Really his breath weapon is Blast 5, and he has no other ranged attacks.

So trying to engage it inside the cloud is just playing into his hands perfectly.

I'm also kind of wondering why there was an apparent lack of area attacks or pushing attacks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jimramar Jul 23, 2009 1:55:06	So, I'm playing 4e with three friends, one of which is the DM. We are currently level four and in a party of five (the DM is playing a bard and cleric who we rescued earlier in the current adventure). My two friends and I are a Wizard, Fighter and Rogue (me). In the last encounter, we faced a necromancer with two large bodyguards, but the encounter became much simpler when our wizard slept everyone. However, just after a Young Black Dragon (MM 75) came to stop us from ruining his plans (he was behind everything and we were sort of in his lair). So, we fight. We try our best to stay in character and keep it cool as a dragon comes down on us, but then he uses Cloud of Darkness. Suddenly the fight got very frustrating. A few rounds went by of me (rogue) and the fighter blindly trying to it the dragon and our wizard trying to even see it while the bard and cleric (DM) tried to keep us alive. After we are all out of powers, we break character and ask the DM if there is any possible other way that we can end this encounter in a way other than our slow but eventual death. We suggested a series of skill challenges to escape the lair or maybe taking out the darkness cloud. So, for a round the DM took out the Cloud of Darkness and the fighter and I laid into the dragon with all we had while the wizard cast spells and the bard and cleric twiddled their thumbs. After one round and some lucky rolls we manged to do half of the dragons HP in damage and the DM decided that the cloud just needed to go back on. This resulted in our Wizard getting very upset and just running around doing nothing while the fighter and I hoped to roll high and stab at the dragon until it eventually died (lucky!). While we did kill the beast, we were rewarded with just gold and frustration. My biggest concern was that one of our PCs did nothing for two hours (the wizard) and that DM was not willing to change the encounter in anyway to amend this. What is a player to do? Thanks Mers, Human Rogue
#2 gregt_314 Jul 23, 2009 2:47:04	As with all problems, bring it up with your DM out-of-session, emphasising that you generally like his game and you want to keep playing, and talking about how the problem makes you, personally, feel and how and why you'd enjoy the game more if he made a change. If that doesn't work, vote with your feet. Start your own non-sucky game and invite the other players.
#3 slobo777a Jul 23, 2009 3:01:23	You may be trying (or being forced into) inappropriate tactics. Although it will not involve all characters, the best way of dealing with a total concealment power is: a) Retreat to long range - out of range of Dragon's breath weapon unless they emerge. b) Anyone with an area effect at-will throws it into the cloud of darkness each round. c) Anyone with a ranged attack, readies an action to attack the dragon as soon as it peeps out from the cloud d) Melee combatants similarly ready a charge action (provided they don't put themselves at risk of a breath attack each round). Or hold, waiting for a chance to use an Action Point on a big-hitter Use of daze, immobilise, forced movement etc can also increase your control over the dragon. If you cannot retreat to long range in the current environment, then retreat fully and reconsider your options.
#4 AaronOfBarbaria Jul 23, 2009 3:13:43	I think that there are a lot of things to consider here... the main one that comes to mind: What powers did the Wizard have? Speaking mostly just on at-wills, there are as many that would have suffered no penalty to their attacks against the dragon in it's darkness as there are that would (that I can think of)... so I guess I am just really saying this: Are you absolutely sure the Wizard wasn't just letting his frustration get the best of him? It happens to the best of us.
#5 kouk Jul 23, 2009 5:47:09	Black Dragons are notoriously difficult by the continual existence of their cloud of darkness. But... I'm curious why you did have to fight it and couldn't just walk away. Really his breath weapon is Blast 5, and he has no other ranged attacks. So trying to engage it inside the cloud is just playing into his hands perfectly. I'm also kind of wondering why there was an apparent lack of area attacks or pushing attacks.