And he stood there.
I nodded, turned back to my conversation, "Anyway, we are in the Scpter Tower of Spellgard..."
Interrupted again, "3.5 (three-five) is where the good rules are."
I turn to him. "I have played D&D, AD&D, 2e player's options, 3.0, and now I am taking a turn at DMming 4e. I think they have their merits and I am willing to play them out."
"Three is like three-five on crack. Four-oh is like three-five in a coma."
"Okay, I am going to play my game now." I turn and continue explaining and he hovers for a good thirty seconds more. We played for the next three hours and he and his friend never said a word. They had a backpack full of books, but they were just researching. It was pretty creepy that he had to come over to try to challenge me into starting a cross-edition flame war.
Okay, rant over. Have you ran into these people very often?
Okay, rant over. Have you ran into these people very often?
Yeah, and they're just as sad in person as they are on the forums.
I have a DM who refuses to learn 4.0. I offered to teach him, and he said that he doesn't have time to learn a new ruleset. I told him it takes less than an hour for players (and I offered to DM), to which he replied by saying that 4.0 is less RP oriented than 3.5. I responded that both are just a set of combat rules that don't dictate RP at all. He acknowledges all of my points and still won't convert. I think it's a less severe case of the previous example.
His only good point was that the feel of the game has changed, and I couldn't refute that at all. I just said that it's possible to ignore or refluff that stuff. However, all of the previous editions were very Tolkien esque and had very in depth stories behind their monsters (such as the blood war). 4.0 added a lot of weird things (dragonborn, goliaths, shifters, etc) and changed a lot of the fluff behind the monsters, and I'm not too happy about that. In the monsters' case it's possible to ignore it and go with the old stuff, but it's a bit harder to reskin PC races to make them fit in a pre-established world. Even Forgotten Realms had to have another world collide with it to explain how Genasi and Dragonborn got there, which is pretty extreme.
Some people are weird. You did well in ignoring him and not feeding him. He definitely clings to that edition as some kind of security blanket, and now that it's on his way out he seems like he challenges anyone who doesn't share his opinion. Meh.
I have a DM who refuses to learn 4.0. I offered to teach him, and he said that he doesn't have time to learn a new ruleset. I told him it takes less than an hour for players (and I offered to DM), to which he replied by saying that 4.0 is less RP oriented than 3.5. I responded that both are just a set of combat rules that don't dictate RP at all. He acknowledges all of my points and still won't convert. I think it's a less severe case of the previous example.
His only good point was that the feel of the game has changed, and I couldn't refute that at all. I just said that it's possible to ignore or refluff that stuff. However, all of the previous editions were very Tolkien esque and had very in depth stories behind their monsters (such as the blood war). 4.0 added a lot of weird things (dragonborn, goliaths, shifters, etc) and changed a lot of the fluff behind the monsters, and I'm not too happy about that. In the monsters' case it's possible to ignore it and go with the old stuff, but it's a bit harder to reskin PC races to make them fit in a pre-established world. Even Forgotten Realms had to have another world collide with it to explain how Genasi and Dragonborn got there, which is pretty extreme.
That DM is not a "troll" for refusing to learn 4E. Some people just don't want to learn 4E. Get over it.
The person the OP decribed is a "troll". Regardless of which version you prefer, harassing players of the other system is rude and presumptuous. If the games were reverse - OP playing 3E while the other person was promoting 4E saying how much better the rules are while the OP kept saying he's fine with 3E while trying to run his game - the other person would still be a "troll".
That DM is not a "troll" for refusing to learn 4E. Some people just don't want to learn 4E. Get over it.
Did I miss where someone said that they were? I mean it's obvious that 4e is much more sophisticated and takes a more cerebral personality to be able to handle.. But we should not put down our 3.5e brethren.. They don't know any better.
(By the way, I was joking before anyone goes off.. and not sure why I put big eyes, but they look neat anyway)
So he continues "Yeah, I am in [some fake reinactment thing]. See, armour doesn't work like that. In deendee it makes it harder for you to get hit, but in [fake reinactment thing] I know that isn;t how it works. I play Star Wars."
We kind of look at eachother again and my Girlfriend chimes in "Yeah, we play many games. We don't really discriminate."
"Yeah, well, I don't play deendee. It's so unrealistic"
"Anything where you pretend to be an Elf is on the unrealistic side..."
"Well, I don't play deendee."
"Ok, well my Girlfriend and I do, and frankly it's a very good game that we both enjoy alot. Some people are just not into it, and that's fine, but we like it."
"Oh, you're girlfriends? Well, I still don't play Deendee. I did back in the too-ee days, but not any more. I play Star Wars now."
"Ok, well have fun with that." And we proceeded to try and leave. He seriously followed us and told us about how he makes Jedi robes and kit kats (or whatever he said) transformers into new ones using his modeling skills. He makes them better than anyone else. Also he doesn't play deendee. We kind of snickered at him and then bid him adieu before leaving the mall.
We still laugh about it to this day!
"Yeah, well, I don't play deendee. It's so unrealistic"
I find it funny that someone thinks "deendee" is so unrealistic, and then declares how he plays Star Wars. Because Wookiees, Mon Calamari, and Force wielding Jedi are so much more real than Dwarves, Elves, and Arcane wielding Wizard.
I had a guy tell me that its a waste of money to buy any 4e books, "Its just going to be replaced in a few years with 4.5 then 5 a few after that." I told him I had the money to spend and enjoyed the system. He then proceeded to inform me on the greatness that was 2nd edition. I asked if he played 2nd or revised, at which point he seemed to not want to discuse the issues with me. He quickly excused himself to vist the bathroom andnever returned.
I had a guy tell me that its a waste of money to buy any 4e books, "Its just going to be replaced in a few years with 4.5 then 5 a few after that." I told him I had the money to spend and enjoyed the system. He then proceeded to inform me on the greatness that was 2nd edition. I asked if he played 2nd or revised, at which point he seemed to not want to discuse the issues with me. He quickly excused himself to vist the bathroom andnever returned.
Oh good lord, he was one of those 'Player's Option' people.
(good humored jesting, don't hurt me)
My Girlfriend and I were looking at some D&D books in a bookstore (not a gaming store, just a bookstore) one day. This weird guy comes over, sighs and goes "Oh? Deendee? Yeah, I don't play deendee." We just kind of looked at eachother and I was like "That's nice".
Ah, the bookstore, one of the best places to meet the socially inept. :embarrass
The encounter rate is often heightened the closer you get to the comics/manga section, unfortunately. Their best attacks are "Confusing Mumble" and "Annoying Rant." Very little XP value, either. I recommend just hitting the "Run" option a few times.
I was at my FLGS today with a couple friends and, for a while, we were alone. A new player showed up at the same time that I was explaining the gist of the campaign and the mechanics of 4e to my friend, when a guy came over and hovered. He literally stood a foot away from me and stared at the baord and my character sheets. He mumbled "Oh, 4.0 (which he pronounced four-oh)." and stood there. I greeted him, agreed, and said, "Yep, how's it going?" and went back to my conversation that he interrupted mid-sentence. He started telling me how he is running his 3.5 campaign right over there (indicating the other side of the room).
And he stood there.
I nodded, turned back to my conversation, "Anyway, we are in the Scpter Tower of Spellgard..."
Interrupted again, "3.5 (three-five) is where the good rules are."
I turn to him. "I have played D&D, AD&D, 2e player's options, 3.0, and now I am taking a turn at DMming 4e. I think they have their merits and I am willing to play them out."
"Three is like three-five on crack. Four-oh is like three-five in a coma."
"Okay, I am going to play my game now." I turn and continue explaining and he hovers for a good thirty seconds more. We played for the next three hours and he and his friend never said a word. They had a backpack full of books, but they were just researching. It was pretty creepy that he had to come over to try to challenge me into starting a cross-edition flame war.
Okay, rant over. Have you ran into these people very often?
Oh thats so cute! YOu have your own nemesis...
My Girlfriend and I were looking at some D&D books in a bookstore (not a gaming store, just a bookstore) one day. This weird guy comes over, sighs and goes "Oh? Deendee? Yeah, I don't play deendee." We just kind of looked at eachother and I was like "That's nice".
Oh god this one is straight out of OFFICE SPACE. You so have to see it.
Even Forgotten Realms had to have another world collide with it to explain how Genasi and Dragonborn got there, which is pretty extreme.
Just a minor point: Genasi and Dragonborn already existed to an extent (though dragonborn only marginally as ex-humans). Genasi were in bunches of books for players even.
The "re-do" of the Realms was more part of a marketing strategy and more to do with the magic system being brought down several pegs.
EDIT: And I get those people too. "Oh, 4th edition? So how's it going?" *hover*. "You know, I don't really like how they did so-and-so, and if I was to ever run it I would change it back to 3rd edition." *hover*. "Yep, don't really care for it myself..." *hover*
I think it might be some kind of cry for help, like "Please force me to play the game with you so I can like it the way everyone says I'm supposed to."
It's not that 4e is a bad system, it's just that I don't appreciate having to drop another 120$ on the 4e core books after getting them 5 years ago and only having light use. My group has not exhausted the possibilities of 3.5, and we do a great deal of homebrew anyway. WotC is guilty of capitalism. I see no reason to buy books that tell me how to play a game that we designed in the first place, as long as we have the ground rules laid out and some precedent for balancing things.
It is also annoying to learn a great deal of new rules, and not being able to buy new 3.5 stuff easily anymore. The reasons for buying and learning 4e stand thus:
-Curiosity as to how the new system works.
-Wanting it because it is new and shiny.
-People who don't like 3.5.
-The possibilities of 3.5 are largely exhausted, in your opinion(maybe because you lack willingness to homebrew or like to powergame and find rule exploits, or play a lot; rp'ing is not helped that much by a new ruleset).
-You like premade adventures or want lots of source material, and the 3.5 material is not as common anymore.
However, citing specific rules as better or unbalanced or whatever is stupid, since the DM can simply disregard things or tweak them. Like the 3.5 classes or races better than 4e's? Easily fixed.
I have not played 4e and cannot condemn it objectively, but I like 3.5 and 3.5 is a better option for me and my group due to our possession of all the books as well as the fun we have sticking to it.
Thus, capitalism. Huzzah for specialized labor.
I prefer 4e because quite frankly, it is far more easy to DM and play. I used to spend hours prepping for game sessions in 3.5, in 4e I don't even have to. Literally, I fall asleep on the train on the way to game, pull out my notepad with plot ideas, call up the compendium, and I'm done.
If a player wants to play a new WOTC class or have a new treasure, I don't even have to look at it. I can just go, yeah, sure. My life is greatly improved since I no longer have to engage in some battle of wills between balanced and unbalanced PC decisions.
My Girlfriend and I were looking at some D&D books in a bookstore (not a gaming store, just a bookstore) one day. This weird guy comes over, sighs and goes "Oh? Deendee? Yeah, I don't play deendee." We just kind of looked at eachother and I was like "That's nice".
So he continues "Yeah, I am in [some fake reinactment thing]. See, armour doesn't work like that. In deendee it makes it harder for you to get hit, but in [fake reinactment thing] I know that isn;t how it works. I play Star Wars."
We kind of look at eachother again and my Girlfriend chimes in "Yeah, we play many games. We don't really discriminate."
"Yeah, well, I don't play deendee. It's so unrealistic"
"Anything where you pretend to be an Elf is on the unrealistic side..."
"Well, I don't play deendee."
"Ok, well my Girlfriend and I do, and frankly it's a very good game that we both enjoy alot. Some people are just not into it, and that's fine, but we like it."
"Oh, you're girlfriends? Well, I still don't play Deendee. I did back in the too-ee days, but not any more. I play Star Wars now."
"Ok, well have fun with that." And we proceeded to try and leave. He seriously followed us and told us about how he makes Jedi robes and kit kats (or whatever he said) transformers into new ones using his modeling skills. He makes them better than anyone else. Also he doesn't play deendee. We kind of snickered at him and then bid him adieu before leaving the mall.
We still laugh about it to this day!
I knew a guy like that. He would be exactly like that with new people. In my situation he was actually looking for players to play World of Darkness. He was just going about it entirely wrong but we figured it out though. He just did come out and say he wanted players for WoD and his D&D bashing was just him trying to kill that discussion so he could talk about WoD. Odd guy. Some people are just socially inept.
Truly, a great man to know, however, I do not play whit him since 1995.
He just can't couple whit new things.
Some people like to try new things, some other like to stay stable on what they already known. It's something akin to evolution and only the future generations can say who's was right and who's was not...
Did I miss where someone said that they were? I mean it's obvious that 4e is much more sophisticated and takes a more cerebral personality to be able to handle.. But we should not put down our 3.5e brethren.. They don't know any better.
(By the way, I was joking before anyone goes off.. and not sure why I put big eyes, but they look neat anyway)
"I think it's a less severe case of the previous example."
Good times.
Much prefer gaming in my own home with my friends.
He seriously followed us and told us about how he makes Jedi robes and kit kats (or whatever he said) transformers into new ones using his modeling skills.
Just as an aside, it's "kit bash"... It's the serious hobbyist's term for switching the heads on your GI JOE guys, lol. :D
If you've ever stolen a sword from one of your minis and glued it into another mini's hand, then you've kit-bashed.
Costuming and kit-bashing are both wonderful hobbies, but they do tend to attract some of the more tweaked-out personalities (or lack thereof).
Myself being one of them, lol.
I fit as much type as I could:D
Seriously though, I'm more than thankful I've never met any guys like that. maybe it helps that we play in our players' houses rather than in hobby shops.
When playing Magic though, there would always be someone who would bash your deck build while you are playtesting. The correct answer would be to ask how many points they have. Usually they don't even play in tournaments, and if they do they are scrubs. Real, good players wouldn't bash something right out of the bat without considering first.
Yeah, and they're just as sad in person as they are on the forums.
Worse actually. When you meet them in real life you see how serious they are.
You also don't have the easy way out via hitting backspace & then ignoring them.
At least here on line you get to wonder if the other person is normal & just RPing "troll" (it is fun to hide behind a screen name & poke at others who seem easily riled...).
But when met in the wild any doubt gets removed.
When playing Magic though, there would always be someone who would bash your deck build while you are playtesting. The correct answer would be to ask how many points they have. Usually they don't even play in tournaments, and if they do they are scrubs.
I'm not sure what points would actually have to do with anything though. Because there ARE really good players out there who simply dislike the tourny enviroment. Highly skilled? Oh yes. But they just have no need/desire to prove to the world how good they are through MTG tournies. And so you've got a bazillion more points than them. So what? All that says is how you rank compared against those who chose to compete.
Just as an aside, it's "kit bash"...
I am familiar with the term kit bash, but he wasn't saying that. It was kit followed by another k word, hence my confusion.
Also, I own Office Space, and the thing it, no, he was not nearly cool enough to be Lumbergh. Yeah, he was that bad. And he was dressed like a cowboy. In public. Ouch.
"Yeah, well, I don't play deendee. It's so unrealistic"
"Yeah, that's why I like it :D"
The encounter rate is often heightened the closer you get to the comics/manga section, unfortunately. Their best attacks are "Confusing Mumble" and "Annoying Rant." Very little XP value, either. I recommend just hitting the "Run" option a few times.
So wait, if I have both those abilities, but don't accost random passerby, does that make me a blue mage? :D
I'm not sure what points would actually have to do with anything though. Because there ARE really good players out there who simply dislike the tourny enviroment. Highly skilled? Oh yes. But they just have no need/desire to prove to the world how good they are through MTG tournies. And so you've got a bazillion more points than them. So what? All that says is how you rank compared against those who chose to compete.
Points are an objective way of seeing how skilled you are. In a competitive game, your skill won't be measured subjectively. When faced by a stranger who bashes your card choices or your deck build, would you just assume that s/he is a good player and you should listen to him/her? It always helps if you have something to prove that you are indeed a good player. Of course, it is always better to not bash anyone at all.
Note that I used the term "usually", since it doesn't always apply. But there is a large chance that it does. Frankly, in my experience those who play in the tourney scene are on the average better players than those who don't.
Also, if confronted by a troll, shout something confusing like "HITLER OWNS A PURPLE GIRAFFE" or "KNIFE-WIELDING PINK ELEPHANTS". Then continue on as if nothing happened.
I promise I'm not a creepy big neckbeard. Promise.
The better of the two went deeply into debt - a combination of a low profit margin cos they offered great prices, coupled with rapidly rising rent in the area - and vanished literally overnight. The crowd there had a few oddballs - like the guy who would go up to everyone who came in, get right up into their personal space, and say in a weird monotone "Do you have (some magic card)" and then would walk away without a word when told "no" - but was generally a good place to shop and hang out.
The other had a game room I never had the nerve to enter as I am certain it was an actual troll-den. It was in the basement, down a dark and rickety set of stairs, and even from the top of the stairs you could smell an overwhelming stench like the corpse of a wet dog. I cannot fathom how anyone could live with smelling like that, let alone go out in public that way. The guys who did emerge from that subterranean lair were creepy as hell.
I said, "no, we're not playing a game that required an entire new core set to be released within a few years."
(I LIKE 3.5. But people like this get on my nerves.)
s/he was a jerk.
I was playing LFR at Anime Central, when someone came by and asked us if we were playing "Fail-point-oh."
I said, "no, we're not playing a game that required an entire new core set to be released within a few years."
Why? A simple "**** off" would've worked so much better.
Why? A simple "**** off" would've worked so much better.
There were kids around, and as I was getting my admittance to the con comped for DMing future games, I didn't want to get thrown out of the gaming room before I got that finished.
And I was trying to be nice. Believe me, if that had happened again, I would have unleashed a ####-storm of expletives, causing the individual in question to question his/her self worth so much, s/he'd break down in tears on the floor.
I am not a nice person. I'm just not as overtly sadistic as I can be. :D
There were kids around, and as I was getting my admittance to the con comped for DMing future games, I didn't want to get thrown out of the gaming room before I got that finished.
Fair enough. In that case I'd've likely come back with "Fail-point-oh? Seriously?" in a tone of voice clearly indicating how deeply disappointed I am with how boring and unimaginative was his attempt at a put-down, then just shook my head, turned my back on him, and returned to the game.
Fair enough. In that case I'd've likely come back with "Fail-point-oh? Seriously?" in a tone of voice clearly indicating how deeply disappointed I am with how boring and unimaginative was his attempt at a put-down, then just shook my head, turned my back on him, and returned to the game.
our game was on a minor pause because our DM was agape at the stupidity of the comment. And because he was talking to the event Coordinator at the time.
Also, if confronted by a troll, shout something confusing like "HITLER OWNS A PURPLE GIRAFFE" or "KNIFE-WIELDING PINK ELEPHANTS". Then continue on as if nothing happened.
Hee hee - reminds me of a guy I knew who, when confronted by someone like that, would get a desperate look in his eyes and plead, "No, no! The Voices say I can't talk to you! Go away! Please! Make the Voices stop!"
Worked well on street 'personality test' goons, too...
Fair enough. In that case I'd've likely come back with "Fail-point-oh? Seriously?" in a tone of voice clearly indicating how deeply disappointed I am with how boring and unimaginative was his attempt at a put-down, then just shook my head, turned my back on him, and returned to the game.
I would simply play it straight. He walks up and says "Fail-point-oh", I say "no, we're playing D&D 4th Edition." I may even play a little stupid and ask him what "fail-point-oh" is. If he has some more words to say, then I s'pose I hear them and give him a discussion. If I'm busy, I ask for pardon as I turn my attention back to the game I was (if I'm in his place) previously running prior to his approach.
The key to dealing with people like that -- I suppose they're trolls in the stricktest sense -- is just not to throw the fire at them, at all. Don't try and be the snappy guy or the big mean guy, or the angry psycho. Just give them nothing to fuel their fires with. Do I sound like some elementary school teacher? Probably. Works for me, though.
I have yet to run into Trolls in the real world. I have a friend who rants on occasion and, as a nerd, a few who are less-than-socially-ept (if ept were the opposite of inept), but it's not like I'm the charismatic group-seeker. Granted, I could be. If I didn't dislike crowds so much.
Who cares if you like 4th more than 3rd or vice versa, it doesn't matter, we are all here to have fun and my opinion of your hobby has no bearing on your ability to enjoy yourself, does it?
If the idea that someone is enjoying themselves with something you are unwilling to take the time to understand somehow irks you, then you are a petty person, keep it to yourself, live your life, play the game you want to and leave them alone. Heck even if you do read every page and decide it's not for you, great, how does it improve your life or anyone else's to go around insulting or iritating the people that do like it?
Same goes for the 4thers! If 3rds are not ready to move on, if they never move on then they're going to keep having fun the way they always have and we all just need to back off and let them be, good for them! Way to have fun! I like fun and I support it! I have visions of the Grand Armée dug in and ready to receive any charge, the old guard, the toughest of the tough and most entrenched and fearless defenders.
You can't change them, they can't change you, a truism for relationships, friendships, all human interaction.
I would simply play it straight. He walks up and says "Fail-point-oh", I say "no, we're playing D&D 4th Edition." I may even play a little stupid and ask him what "fail-point-oh" is. If he has some more words to say, then I s'pose I hear them and give him a discussion. If I'm busy, I ask for pardon as I turn my attention back to the game I was (if I'm in his place) previously running prior to his approach.
The key to dealing with people like that -- I suppose they're trolls in the stricktest sense -- is just not to throw the fire at them, at all. Don't try and be the snappy guy or the big mean guy, or the angry psycho. Just give them nothing to fuel their fires with. Do I sound like some elementary school teacher? Probably. Works for me, though.
I find that a deft riposte making them feel like the humorless morons they are usually works best for me. To each their own.
I find that a deft riposte making them feel like the humorless morons they are usually works best for me. To each their own.
I can't be bothered to waste my wit on people like that. I just shut them down completely by being polite yet firm, and say something like...
"Excuse me, but I don't know you. As you can see, I'm clearly otherwise occupied with something here, and you've rather rudely walked up and interrupted me. I find that completely unacceptable, and have no desire to talk to you at all. Please go away."
I then just go back to what I was doing as if nothing had happened.
I can't be bothered to waste my wit on people like that. I just shut them down completely by being polite yet firm, and say something like...
"Excuse me, but I don't know you. As you can see, I'm clearly otherwise occupied with something here, and you've rather rudely walked up and interrupted me. I find that completely unacceptable, and have no desire to talk to you at all. Please go away."
I then just go back to what I was doing as if nothing had happened.
It's better if you don't talk at all. Just wield a really large knife in front of their faces.
Hey, violence is not the answer, but it's always a good guess.