Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ronfar7 Sep 07, 2008 19:55:53	This may not be a problem anymore. The other players might be playing a session without me, I don't know. But if not I'm going to have to do something about this at the next session. In a nutshell, I'm playing a Lawful Good Paladin and our Tiefling Warlord keeps murdering people. He's got this gimmick where theres some kind of bipolar or Multiple Personality thing going on and his normally... normal character occasionally murders innocent people. I wasn't present for the first session where he mudered four nuns and the fighter made a successful bluff check when I returned. Last session he pounded on some random cabon door on a ship and went to murder the buck-naked sailor inside with his flail. My character asked him about it, he said more or less, "I do this occasionally" Now he's locked with the cargo and I have to do something when we get to port. I think I might have to have my character leave the group. The Fighter constantly tries to cover for this guy and the Rogue is frustratingly non-schalousnt about everything. I talked to the guy playing the tiefling and he says that the character can't help himself. My guess is that when the characters get off the boat, either my character turns his character in for murder, or the DM comes up with something that lets the tiefling get away from authorities. (So that the player doesn't have to give up his character) At which point my character would have to leave the party. Is there another option that I am not seeing? I haven't read the characters sheets but I would guess that the party consists of 1 good (me), 1 evil (Tiefling) and a whole bunch of characters that don't give a hoot one way or the other. Something's gotta give. And Friday night, I think it will. Any radical ideas?
#2 skalgrimm Sep 07, 2008 20:14:32	I don't see much in the way of other options. A tiefling is murdering people. Either those people who know this are OK with it (in which case, they are condoning murder) or they make some effort to stop him. I think this should have been discussed as a group well before it got to this point. Either everyone else in the game is happy with having murderous characters, and you aren't in tune with the group's play style and goals, or someone else (like the Tiefling's player) isn't in sync with the group's playstyle and goals. I don't even understand how games like this even happen. In every game I've ever played, if one person tried to do stuff that was totally out of bounds for everyone else (or if one person tried to stop someone from doing something that everybody else was fine with), we'd have stopped the game, discussed our expectations, and generally, the outlier would move into the group consensus. In every case where that didn't happen, the outlier was asked to stop playing. I'm not saying that anything is wrong with you, or your group. I just never had a situation occur that got this far. We always seemed to resolve these things much earlier. Maybe we were lucky.
#3 maulorn Sep 07, 2008 20:18:26	Smite Him all mighty Smiter!!!
#4 Ronfar7 Sep 07, 2008 20:21:01	I guess I may be the odd man out. Like I said, I wasn't there when the character murdered the nuns. I guess all the other characters were ok with it since they went on with their adventure. I may have to quit playing. I know it's all make-pretend but I don't think I could play a game where everyone was ok with random murder. It wouldn't be fun for me, it'd be wierd.
#5 stanks Sep 07, 2008 20:24:48	Talk to your DM The big problem is that you were not there for the first session when it happened. Right now your Lawful PC would be turning the other PC into authorities, the other guys might not get off lightly either, but realisitically it is your word against theirs (unless the authorities have some sort of compulsion truth saying juice). Im suprised the captain of the ship you are on is waiting this long. Seriously, talk to your DM. I cannot think of a good solution to this for both parties. How attached are you to your character? Would it bother you to have to make a new one? The only thing I can see happening is that the characters somehow escape, and your 'old' Lawful PC (now an NPC) is hired to track down the party and bring back proof that the sentence has been delivered (insert recurring character here!). This does mean you need a new character though. I would also suggest talking to the other players OoG about the issue that will arise after talking to the DM. Is this your first campaign in this group, or is it just a new problem in an existing group? If this is a new group for you, then you will be seen as the outsider who will either have to 'conform' or leave. I feel for you, not a fun situation to be in.
#6 jenrock Sep 07, 2008 20:36:03	Talk to your group first. Let them know that your character is coming to a crossroads with one branch being leaving the group and the other being a direction confrontation (not neccessarily a fight) with the offending character(s). I must agree with Skalgrimm, I cannot see how this happened. You should also discuss the apparent lack of communication and group cohesion with your group.
#7 Enlightened1 Sep 07, 2008 20:55:52	Yeah, try talking to them out-of-character. But IMO people who like this kind of game, where their characters go around murdering innocents and use 'roleplaying' or 'it's just in character' to shrug it all off, are not likely to cooperate or respond positively. The player set his character up to do this, apparently without any intent to reform his character or develop a dramatic story of redemption or slow corruption, and the GM let him do it. From what you've described, nobody else in the group has any issue with a series of murders, all without any consequences. Some people may like this kind of game; I abhor it (as does just baout every other gamer I've ever had any respect for). Basically, you can try talking to the people, but it's probably going to be easier and more encouraging to just find another group.
#8 rainkiss Sep 08, 2008 7:23:38	Definately have a talk with your DM, outside of game time, and privately. Let him know that you, personally, as a player, have an issue with his game, and that you're considering leaving. (And, if you're unhappy, IMHO, you have every right to walk away from the game. If it ain't fun any more, there's no point showing up with your dice.) Ask him if he's happy with the way his game is going, or if the tiefling is going to actually face justice, and see what he has to say. (It's possible he's happy with running that sort of game, or doesn't realize at least one of his players isn't happy. Give him a chance to fix things.) If things continue as they are, find a new group.
#9 zaydrache Sep 08, 2008 10:02:21	Well I can think of several options other than leaving or turning him in. First it looks like you are playing 4th. If this is so it would be easy to not be a LG paladin. If that was really the character you wanted to play it doesn't look like it meshes well with the party. Sounds like they are playing a morally ambiguous campaign and you jump it with a very moral person. In reality your dm should have warned you beforehand about the game he was running. If that wasn't the campaign and it is just that 1 character misbehaving and no one is calling him on it there is a problem. Dm should have had him caught after the nuns and the player rolling a new character. Now then if it is just the campaign world you are playing in where murders are common and your party is less than good but gets the job done and you still want to play you do have options. Option one is, alter your character to be closer to the party. Go in to battle lust during a fight and switch your alignment to unaligned and your god to kord or one of the other unaligned, Raven Queen would work as well. Second is all new character, check with dm before either and see if you can keep your exp and items from earlier and make a character that fits better. Not sure how you got in to this group but if it is something just with how the dm is running the world you should have been informed when joining. If it is just the player and the dm is running with it and you are just really not ok with that kind of came let everyone know before next game. I really hate telling people to leave their groups mostly because its hard to get in a good group. That said if it is just something you can’t deal with or work yourself in to make sure everyone knows your feelings and give them a chance to change if they don't, look for a new group or tell them to call you when they are playing something a little less crazy. If it is something you can work with at least just get yourself in line with the group and have fun with it. If you keep the Paladin and change faiths that would be a good hook for the dm and you could be a wanted man as well.
#10 CrispyCrew Sep 08, 2008 10:20:11	This may not be a problem anymore. The other players might be playing a session without me, I don't know. But if not I'm going to have to do something about this at the next session. In a nutshell, I'm playing a Lawful Good Paladin and our Tiefling Warlord keeps murdering people. He's got this gimmick where theres some kind of bipolar or Multiple Personality thing going on and his normally... normal character occasionally murders innocent people. I wasn't present for the first session where he mudered four nuns and the fighter made a successful bluff check when I returned. Last session he pounded on some random cabon door on a ship and went to murder the buck-naked sailor inside with his flail. My character asked him about it, he said more or less, "I do this occasionally" Now he's locked with the cargo and I have to do something when we get to port. I think I might have to have my character leave the group. The Fighter constantly tries to cover for this guy and the Rogue is frustratingly non-schalousnt about everything. I talked to the guy playing the tiefling and he says that the character can't help himself. My guess is that when the characters get off the boat, either my character turns his character in for murder, or the DM comes up with something that lets the tiefling get away from authorities. (So that the player doesn't have to give up his character) At which point my character would have to leave the party. Is there another option that I am not seeing? I haven't read the characters sheets but I would guess that the party consists of 1 good (me), 1 evil (Tiefling) and a whole bunch of characters that don't give a hoot one way or the other. Something's gotta give. And Friday night, I think it will. Any radical ideas? This is why I play good-only campaigns.
#11 maulorn Sep 08, 2008 13:25:45	Srsly Smite Him and preach to the others so that they can see error of their ways... You could always light a righteous fire upon the ship to burn the sin clean!
#12 Ronfar7 Sep 08, 2008 13:46:35	Remember the part where I said my character was Lawful Good? I guess I'll ask the DM what kind of game he's running. He could be running a creepy bloodbath thing which I wont do. Or it could be that he's just allowing characters do do whatever the heck they want with minimal consequeces. This is the most likely situation since none of the other characters are committing murders, they just dont care that the tiefling is. Tiefling murders people, sure the PCs don't care. (except for mine) Probably because they know that no matter who he murders it wont be them(due to meta-game process) The captain locks him in the basement of the ship. If the players havent moved on the adventure without me(the group over there does spur of the moment games in between scheduled sessions) and the DM realy doesn't care all that much what a character does, I could probably go on with the smiting process. Though he might kill me. Or I could confront the character with mine, and give him a couple of options regarding his near future, or lack thereof. (Lawful Good Laughter) Mu hu hu ha ha!
#13 rainkiss Sep 08, 2008 15:08:08	Sounds like the problem here is less a "my character doesn't like what his character is doing" than a more serious "this groups play style isn't one I enjoy." If the OP wanted to play a Charlie Manson-inspired psychopath and bathe in the blood of unicorns in a party full of paladins, it'd be the same problem, and same solution. They're not playing the game he wants to play. He should give the DM the courtesy of letting him know that he's not having fun and, if that's the game everyone else wants to play, step out gracefully and find a group that DOES suit him. If it IS just a very hands-off DM and a group of players who don't care what the tiefling does, feel free to force-march him to the local law enforcement when you land and see to it that he faces justice.
#14 sphyre Sep 08, 2008 18:46:21	Any radical ideas? Start praying for him. Have a really really creepy interest in him. Offer to sleep next to him. Buy him gifts. Invade his personal space. Make him feel uncomfortable. Start saying that you have angels watching his every move, and that the angel Tetrianna is watching him closely. Groom his feet. Spend time combing his hair... in public. Whenever he tries to talk to someone say "Oh, little joey's not feeling well. I'll speak for him." Tell him that he's grounded whenever he does something bad, and tell him he can't get his allowance. Give him a teddy bear and whenever he throws it out, go get it for him again. Insist that he have it on him at all times. If he ever destroys it, have multiple copies so you can always replace it - and insist it was the one you originally gave him. When confronted, say you're taking an active interest in him so you can drive out the evil within him. He will be saved, you'll see to it. In a way, you're making it hard on him, not him making it hard on you and your morals. That way he'll have to figure out how to live with you, not the other way around. Hey, hey, hey! Stop throwing things at me. You did say "any radical ideas?" Oh sorry, is the DM in me showing?
#15 Ronfar7 Sep 08, 2008 19:18:14	Start praying for him. Have a really really creepy interest in him. Offer to sleep next to him. Buy him gifts. Invade his personal space. Make him feel uncomfortable. Start saying that you have angels watching his every move, and that the angel Tetrianna is watching him closely. Groom his feet. Spend time combing his hair... in public. Whenever he tries to talk to someone say "Oh, little joey's not feeling well. I'll speak for him." Tell him that he's grounded whenever he does something bad, and tell him he can't get his allowance. Give him a teddy bear and whenever he throws it out, go get it for him again. Insist that he have it on him at all times. If he ever destroys it, have multiple copies so you can always replace it - and insist it was the one you originally gave him. When confronted, say you're taking an active interest in him so you can drive out the evil within him. He will be saved, you'll see to it. In a way, you're making it hard on him, not him making it hard on you and your morals. That way he'll have to figure out how to live with you, not the other way around. Hey, hey, hey! Stop throwing things at me. You did say "any radical ideas?" Oh sorry, is the DM in me showing? Well I was going to handcuff him to me so I could keep an eye on him during the day and weigh him down with a 370lb weight at night. But your idea is alot more unnerving. I like it. And if I get kicked out of the group I haven't lost anything except a chance to play Ed Gein on the weekends. Which I never particularly wanted to do.
#16 pschirf Sep 09, 2008 0:10:31	This, as someone else said, is why D&D is better when it's a good-only party. Talk to the group out-of-character and ask what type of game they want. Do they want internal party strife? If so, and you don't want it, find another game.
#17 rowl Sep 09, 2008 2:36:15	Sounds like the problem here is less a "my character doesn't like what his character is doing" than a more serious "this groups play style isn't one I enjoy." If the OP wanted to play a Charlie Manson-inspired psychopath and bathe in the blood of unicorns in a party full of paladins, it'd be the same problem, and same solution. They're not playing the game he wants to play. He should give the DM the courtesy of letting him know that he's not having fun and, if that's the game everyone else wants to play, step out gracefully and find a group that DOES suit him. If it IS just a very hands-off DM and a group of players who don't care what the tiefling does, feel free to force-march him to the local law enforcement when you land and see to it that he faces justice. This (emphasis mine) Start praying for him. Have a really really creepy interest in him. Offer to sleep next to him. Buy him gifts. Invade his personal space. Make him feel uncomfortable. Start saying that you have angels watching his every move, and that the angel Tetrianna is watching him closely. Groom his feet. Spend time combing his hair... in public. Whenever he tries to talk to someone say "Oh, little joey's not feeling well. I'll speak for him." Tell him that he's grounded whenever he does something bad, and tell him he can't get his allowance. Give him a teddy bear and whenever he throws it out, go get it for him again. Insist that he have it on him at all times. If he ever destroys it, have multiple copies so you can always replace it - and insist it was the one you originally gave him. When confronted, say you're taking an active interest in him so you can drive out the evil within him. He will be saved, you'll see to it. In a way, you're making it hard on him, not him making it hard on you and your morals. That way he'll have to figure out how to live with you, not the other way around. Hey, hey, hey! Stop throwing things at me. You did say "any radical ideas?" Oh sorry, is the DM in me showing? And this is seriously the best and quite possibly the funniest most awesome conflict resolution idea I've ever heard!!
#18 rainkiss Sep 09, 2008 9:15:21	Start praying for him. Have a really really creepy interest in him. Offer to sleep next to him. Buy him gifts. Invade his personal space. Make him feel uncomfortable. Start saying that you have angels watching his every move, and that the angel Tetrianna is watching him closely. Groom his feet. Spend time combing his hair... in public. Whenever he tries to talk to someone say "Oh, little joey's not feeling well. I'll speak for him." Tell him that he's grounded whenever he does something bad, and tell him he can't get his allowance. Give him a teddy bear and whenever he throws it out, go get it for him again. Insist that he have it on him at all times. If he ever destroys it, have multiple copies so you can always replace it - and insist it was the one you originally gave him. When confronted, say you're taking an active interest in him so you can drive out the evil within him. He will be saved, you'll see to it. In a way, you're making it hard on him, not him making it hard on you and your morals. That way he'll have to figure out how to live with you, not the other way around. Hey, hey, hey! Stop throwing things at me. You did say "any radical ideas?" Oh sorry, is the DM in me showing? Dude, you owe me a new keyboard. I just sprayed coffee all over this one. Hysterical, I love it.
#19 sphyre Sep 09, 2008 16:42:34	Dude, you owe me a new keyboard. I just sprayed coffee all over this one. I'd settle for just getting you a new coffee, but in the age of designer coffee, I'm not sure which one is more expensive to replace... the coffee or the keyboard?
#20 rainkiss Sep 10, 2008 7:47:12	Hrm, tossup... Ronfar? When's your next session, at least some of us are interested in how things play out. Come back and let us know?
#21 Ronfar7 Sep 16, 2008 23:29:06	Ok, I got back with everyone this weekend and I was all ready to get things settled with the Tiefling I told the player ahead of time that my Paladin was going to kick his character's ass. Then I was somewhat annoyed when the DM began the session with. "After the ship docked you all got off the ship and were approached by a panicked person who wanted you to go on a quest-" Hold on a minute! I thought. The Tiefling is still locked up and he's still guilty of four murders. I even asked about it. The DM said that because the Tiefling helped kill a giant spider on the ship, he was free to go for the murder of the defenseless sailor. Hold on, I'm going to see if I can find an appropriate smiley in response to that... Ok. Captain says you're forgiven, Paladin says SCREW THAT! So I more-or-less derailed the DM's train of quest so I could sit the Tiefling down for a good verbal ass whupping. My Paladin asked him what in the world his problem was and the Tiefling offered some emo explanation about how all Tieflings have an internal conflict and if they are ever by themselves or without the company of good-aligned people they are instantly evil and go berzerk. Paladin said that that was basically a poor excuse for an excuse and it went in a circle of "I can't help it" and "Quit murdering nuns" Then the hot-headed Fighter jumped in and started telling my Paladin that he was being a jerk and to leave the Tiefling alone so that we could continue our quest. Oh, and he tried an Intimidate on me and rolled twenty-something. That anoyed me somewhat and the Paladin's response was something along the lines of, "Bring it on, Smiley," Then the Wizard and the DM's Rogue threw in a couple comments that were borderline wishy washy and commented that we need to resolve it right now to move on. In a pinch, I offered the Tiefling three options: 1. Go quietly with me as I turn him in for murder. (Though the Captain of the ship didn't care about the sailor and I had no willing witnesses for the nuns' murders) He drew his weapon. 2. I kill him right there on the dock... I drew my weapon and the Fighter drew his. ...as well as anyone who sides with him. or 3. He becomes my servant until I decide that he has reformed satisfactorily and that he has paid for his crimes through his service to me. He will never leave my sight and if he harms another innocent being he will lose his life. By the time I had gotten all this out, none of the players cared. They were just glad to move on. I get the feeling that the agreement will never be aknowledged by anyone and there will be no role played reformation, just a stop to the murders. I don't believe there was any role playing after that, just a bunch of combat encounters... Those players love their combat encounters. I can never remember why we're fighting.
#22 kurenaiyami Sep 17, 2008 0:07:27	Those players love their combat encounters. I can never remember why we're fighting. Because otherwise, those swords and daggers you're all using would get rusty from lack of use. That silence at the end of the session seems kind of...unsettling. How did the DM react to these events? I'd likely try and open up some lines of communication with the other players and the GM to make sure things are cool. You could also just wait and see what else happens, if you don't feel like going to the trouble.
#23 truechaotic Sep 17, 2008 3:33:24	Honestly, players like that just do what they want, spewing ambiguous rules and guidelines at the DM, which makes the DM sigh and say "Whatever". That probably happened during the first session, which would explain why the player reiterates 'My character doesn't have a choice' in utterly frustrating circles. My resolution: Subtly screw up every little thing the Tiefling Warpain tries to do, responding to his cries of foul play with "My character didn't have a choice." Nothing makes a player stop being an a$$, pardon my french, then seeing his own annoying behavior reflected in another players actions. P.S. I'm fully aware he's a War'lord', but i wouldn't confer such a title to him.
#24 emelar Sep 17, 2008 12:12:14	Talk to them. Tell them that you know it is just a game but you aren't cool with characters that just go around randomly killing people. Besides, the tiefling is certainly seeming awfully casual about their killing sickness. "I do this occasionally"? I sneeze occasionally and I still ask to be excused when I do that. This guy goes out of his way to find aperson to kill and all they can say is "I do this occasionally"? Or attack the tiefling when they aren't expecting it. If they question you, tell him that you "do this occasionally". After it is all over, tell them what you think of the situation and that you would rather not play if the best they can do is make a bunch of homicidal maniacs and try to cover it with some weak "bi-polar" BS. I doubt mental disease would hold up as a defense in any court, assuming there was even a trial, and the character would be wholly and fully guilty of murder and sentenced to die by guillotine, burning, hanging, stoning, headman's axe/sword, drowning, starvation, or whatever else the local culture may have dreamed up. non-schalousnt The word is nonchalant. One word, no hyphen.
#25 Rant_Casey Sep 17, 2008 13:28:44	Always avoid talking to the players and GM out of character about this kind of situation. It's between the character, and it should be handled thusly, not through metagaming or real-world social encounters. Keep in mind how much your *character* knows and what your character can act on. When you have enough information, make your move, and make it decisively, and without warning. However, know out of character, the rogue can, and will, kill you, because of the nature of how Strikers vs Defenders work. Play it out, though, because it's the natural progression of things. It's worth it to keep the integrity of the game.
#26 badapple Sep 17, 2008 23:29:27	The DM said that because the Tiefling helped kill a giant spider on the ship, he was free to go for the murder of the defenseless sailor. Warlord: Excuse me captain? Captain: Yes? Warlord: I'd like to offer my services to you. I'm an expert spider hunter and I will offer you piece of mind that your ocean going voyage will be completely protected from any spider attacks. Captain: Spiders? Uh huh... Warlord: All I ask is that you indulge my occasional appetite to knock down the doors and murder a crewman or two. Captain: Wha? First Mate: Aaaaaack! We're being attacked by a GIANT SPIDER!!! Captain: You're hired!