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Anti-Magic party

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
partyduk
Apr 02, 2008 1:30:53 I am creating an Anti-Magic party as a high-level encounter for my campaign.
The idea is that these characters are all against magic for their own personal reasons. Each is meant to fulfill a role in the typical party:

Primary Melee: Fighter 2 / Paladin (Fallen) 3 / Occult Slayer 5 / Kensai 10

Secondary Melee: Monk 10 / Arcanopath Monk 10

Divine: Cleric 10 / Defiant 10

Any suggestions for a rouge-ish type character that would fit in with this rough group?

Thanks a billion
#2
mergedloki
Apr 02, 2008 2:00:30 just one question.
How is it an anti-magic party when there is a cleric in it?
as for an anti-magic rogue. Whats wrong w/a plain old rogue.
that would seem to be one of the better choices (IMO) you know the whole 'ok fine you can do that with a spell but it's ALL SKILL with me'
just a thought.
#3
partyduk
Apr 02, 2008 2:45:31 Yes, I should have addressed that earlier.

Generally, the idea that an anti-magic party is using magic sounds absurd, but the general idea is that they consider it using fire to fight fire. Kind of a James Bond deal: licensed to kill those who kill. Even the fluff for the Occult Slayer indicates that there are casters who will use magic to meet this end.
Specifically, the cleric in this case has taken the route of the Defiant. He is more driven to destroy those who draw power from deities rather than spellcasters in general.

I have considered a pure rogue, but I like to explore many options. If at all possible, I would like to find something that fits more of the parties' flavor.
While this party will be largely disinterested with non-casters, due to their specialization, non-casters should have quite an edge on them.
#4
mergedloki
Apr 02, 2008 2:57:46 hmm...
maybe a spellthief for a rogue-type character.
Seeing as they can well.. STEAL spells it would seem they would a good asset to a party who's aim is to prevent magic. Can't use the magic if it's wiped from you.
they're in... complete adventurer if i'm not mistaken.
#5
drmorganes
Apr 02, 2008 8:21:10 NPCs or PCs?

Spellthief could work. The reduced Sneak Attack progression, further reduced by using Steal Spell, means your typical Level 20 Wizardy-type would probably live long enough on a Full Attack to lose a couple of spell effects and a prepared spell or two.

Still, it's hard to beat +10d6 sneak attack damage for pure mage-slaying goodness.

Feats...
Deadly Precision to minimize the impact of 1s on your SA damage.
Telling Blow with a high-threat weapon (like a rapier) for increased damage on critical hits.
Improved Critical (Rapier) if you want to minimize the magical gear but still boost the frequency of critical hits - especially with Telling Blow.
Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Concealment (CArc, p81) to ensure you'll land that Sneak Attack regardless of pesky magical concealment effects.

Edit: Also, consider adding material from Tome of Battle to your little group of magic killers. The Sublime Way is closer to a weapon-based martial art than blade "magic". While some of the disciplines do feel very "magical" (Desert Wind and Shadow Hand, ferinstance), most paths offer a much more "I can do this because I'm just. that. good." feel.
#6
robbypants
Apr 03, 2008 8:00:15 Yeah, fluff-wise, a spellthief could be cool. That was a good suggestion by MergedLoki.

As for roguish things, I've always like Swashbuckler/Rogue combos that use Daring Outlaw to keep the BAB and sneak attack damage high. Still, I love using wands with this build, and it might not be anti-magic enough for you.

Also, the ninja class in Complete Adventurer. While not powerful, they get a lot of Ki abilities that make them versitle without actual magic. And the Poison Use ability lets them safely use poison. Consider using mental stat damaging poisons, to reduce the effectiveness of other casters.
#7
syrinth
Apr 04, 2008 1:29:15 Pretty much the best way to take out an arcanist is by making sure that they don't fnarking know that you're coming.

With that in mind, I'd probably just go straight rogue, maybe rogue/assassin or maybe even Scout since the thought of the scout with permanent Freedom of Movement sliding towards that mage is somewhat amusing.
#8
LivingShadow
Apr 04, 2008 19:18:18 I remember seeing an alternate class feature for the rogue. I think it was in CA. Instead of evasion you could reflect spells that you dodged.
#9
Nathreet
Apr 04, 2008 19:38:35 In spite of the popularity, getting a rogue for melee damage is a bad idea. They die too easily. OTOH if you need your skillmonkey to do some damage on the side, it'll be better than nothing. I'd have him pick off weak enemies. If you expect more martial opponents than wizzies, a MW/magic buckler or darkwood light shield may give him some safety. IIRC, both have no armor check penalty which means no non-proficiency penalties.

EDIT: +1 to stealth idea. That's the best way for a rogue to stay safe. I'd pick up a spell storing weapon to further improve your 1st-hit damage. That way if your cover is blown after the first hit, the mage will be dead sooner. Or hide in plain sight via shadowdancer/etc. is a good way to hide again next round.

A rogue's trapfinding is the only way to find magic traps, so I'd say the flavor fits there. Goggles of minute seeing are only 1,250gp and give a +5 to search checks to find traps and secret doors.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 partyduk Apr 02, 2008 1:30:53	I am creating an Anti-Magic party as a high-level encounter for my campaign. The idea is that these characters are all against magic for their own personal reasons. Each is meant to fulfill a role in the typical party: Primary Melee: Fighter 2 / Paladin (Fallen) 3 / Occult Slayer 5 / Kensai 10 Secondary Melee: Monk 10 / Arcanopath Monk 10 Divine: Cleric 10 / Defiant 10 Any suggestions for a rouge-ish type character that would fit in with this rough group? Thanks a billion
#2 mergedloki Apr 02, 2008 2:00:30	just one question. How is it an anti-magic party when there is a cleric in it? as for an anti-magic rogue. Whats wrong w/a plain old rogue. that would seem to be one of the better choices (IMO) you know the whole 'ok fine you can do that with a spell but it's ALL SKILL with me' just a thought.
#3 partyduk Apr 02, 2008 2:45:31	Yes, I should have addressed that earlier. Generally, the idea that an anti-magic party is using magic sounds absurd, but the general idea is that they consider it using fire to fight fire. Kind of a James Bond deal: licensed to kill those who kill. Even the fluff for the Occult Slayer indicates that there are casters who will use magic to meet this end. Specifically, the cleric in this case has taken the route of the Defiant. He is more driven to destroy those who draw power from deities rather than spellcasters in general. I have considered a pure rogue, but I like to explore many options. If at all possible, I would like to find something that fits more of the parties' flavor. While this party will be largely disinterested with non-casters, due to their specialization, non-casters should have quite an edge on them.
#4 mergedloki Apr 02, 2008 2:57:46	hmm... maybe a spellthief for a rogue-type character. Seeing as they can well.. STEAL spells it would seem they would a good asset to a party who's aim is to prevent magic. Can't use the magic if it's wiped from you. they're in... complete adventurer if i'm not mistaken.
#5 drmorganes Apr 02, 2008 8:21:10	NPCs or PCs? Spellthief could work. The reduced Sneak Attack progression, further reduced by using Steal Spell, means your typical Level 20 Wizardy-type would probably live long enough on a Full Attack to lose a couple of spell effects and a prepared spell or two. Still, it's hard to beat +10d6 sneak attack damage for pure mage-slaying goodness. Feats... Deadly Precision to minimize the impact of 1s on your SA damage. Telling Blow with a high-threat weapon (like a rapier) for increased damage on critical hits. Improved Critical (Rapier) if you want to minimize the magical gear but still boost the frequency of critical hits - especially with Telling Blow. Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Concealment (CArc, p81) to ensure you'll land that Sneak Attack regardless of pesky magical concealment effects. Edit: Also, consider adding material from Tome of Battle to your little group of magic killers. The Sublime Way is closer to a weapon-based martial art than blade "magic". While some of the disciplines do feel very "magical" (Desert Wind and Shadow Hand, ferinstance), most paths offer a much more "I can do this because I'm just. that. good." feel.
#6 robbypants Apr 03, 2008 8:00:15	Yeah, fluff-wise, a spellthief could be cool. That was a good suggestion by MergedLoki. As for roguish things, I've always like Swashbuckler/Rogue combos that use Daring Outlaw to keep the BAB and sneak attack damage high. Still, I love using wands with this build, and it might not be anti-magic enough for you. Also, the ninja class in Complete Adventurer. While not powerful, they get a lot of Ki abilities that make them versitle without actual magic. And the Poison Use ability lets them safely use poison. Consider using mental stat damaging poisons, to reduce the effectiveness of other casters.
#7 syrinth Apr 04, 2008 1:29:15	Pretty much the best way to take out an arcanist is by making sure that they don't fnarking know that you're coming. With that in mind, I'd probably just go straight rogue, maybe rogue/assassin or maybe even Scout since the thought of the scout with permanent Freedom of Movement sliding towards that mage is somewhat amusing.
#8 LivingShadow Apr 04, 2008 19:18:18	I remember seeing an alternate class feature for the rogue. I think it was in CA. Instead of evasion you could reflect spells that you dodged.
#9 Nathreet Apr 04, 2008 19:38:35	In spite of the popularity, getting a rogue for melee damage is a bad idea. They die too easily. OTOH if you need your skillmonkey to do some damage on the side, it'll be better than nothing. I'd have him pick off weak enemies. If you expect more martial opponents than wizzies, a MW/magic buckler or darkwood light shield may give him some safety. IIRC, both have no armor check penalty which means no non-proficiency penalties. EDIT: +1 to stealth idea. That's the best way for a rogue to stay safe. I'd pick up a spell storing weapon to further improve your 1st-hit damage. That way if your cover is blown after the first hit, the mage will be dead sooner. Or hide in plain sight via shadowdancer/etc. is a good way to hide again next round. A rogue's trapfinding is the only way to find magic traps, so I'd say the flavor fits there. Goggles of minute seeing are only 1,250gp and give a +5 to search checks to find traps and secret doors.