Anyone? Illusion wizard?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

esuom

Apr 08, 2008 21:49:33
Wanted to know if anyone has played an illusion based wizard in any of there games. And if so were they any fun and what did you all do to level. I mean i know they wont work in every game, but i was thinking that one might be really fun to play.

Of course it would have to be a gnome.

Anyone?
#2

shaggy_shaggs

Apr 08, 2008 21:59:21
I played a fairly low-level wizard (not technically a specialist) that mostly used illusion, not too long ago. When I wasn't leveling encounters with Colour Spray and leaving the party to clean up the wreckage, I pretended to be a much higher level necromancer. You know, funny thing about incorporeal undead, they can't be heard unless they wish to be. You'd be surprised what you can accomplish with a silent image of a dread wraith and a good bluff check.

From my limited experience and what I've read in guides, the trick to playing an illusion-based character is to use your images to pretend you've got more firepower than you do. For example, if you lay down a Stinking Cloud or a Cloudkill and some enemies see a buddy get wiped out by one of those spells, throwing out illusions of more clouds like that will make the enemy think twice -- "Do I really want to walk into that green vapour when my brother vomited up his lungs and dropped dead when he walked into the last one?"
#3

oatsmalone

Apr 08, 2008 23:36:40
I'm running an illusionist right now, and it's the most fun I've ever had with a character. Cyril Alexander, Master of Shadow. He's a human, actually. Since the beginning, he's felt pretty powerful, actually, and he already feels formidable at level 5. He's a Focused Specialist who gave up Evocation, Enchantment and Transmutation. Build thus far is Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 2.

As noted above, Color Spray is an early killer. The images are incredibly flexible, as my DM is letting me use them. Fer example: a massive man in black armor that breathes fire is pretty terrifying to those poor little kobolds for the few rounds that they believe it's real. And after all, saves only occur when you interact with the image, and a wizard CAN focus on the image to make it act realistically. Cause Fear is useful, as are battlefield control spells like Grease. Of course, I'm going the "My character is too good for dealing damage directly" route.

Picking up Images as they come up is a good idea, as are the particularly nasty Phantasmal Assailants (when they hit), Shadow Spray (which is AMAZING, since it works on some mindless enemies as well), and Web (not illusion, but obvious) at 2nd level. Good choices at 3rd level include Cone of Dimness and Stinking Cloud (again, not illusion, but really good) for crowds, and a Phantasmal Strangler for the tough guy. Shadow Binding may also come in handy.

I intend to take Cyril into the Shadowcraft Mage PrC, which will allow him to make his images oh-so-real, as per the Killer Gnome build that's somewhere around the CharOp boards. I wouldn't call Cyril optimized, but through the PrC and the Earth Spell feat, he'll eventually be able to craft a silent image that will mimic any Evocation or Conjuration (creation or summoning) spell, and have it be more real than the actual spell (more damage with a Fireball, etc). Luckily, I've had a while to get used to a more typical illusionist, and I'm still having the most amazing time ever.

In combat, he mostly stays out of the way. He's got some masterwork daggers that he'll throw from time to time, but since level 1 he stands back and debuffs or distracts.

For instance, once the party (then comprised of a ranger/paladin, a rogue/fighter, a warmage, and moi) ran into a strongarm-type bugbear charging a toll on the road we were taking. We were pretty rude to him, and he just so happened to have around 12 goblins backing him up with bows on the surrounding hills. It was about to be a TPK when Cyril used a silent image to have ten "archers" back up the party. He concentrated on it, having them act as though they had been shot and whatnot. They drew a good 8 arrows a turn, lucky for us. It bought the party enough time to put an end to the majority of the archers.

Heck, one time we were fighting undead, and even so I found a way to use nearly all of my spells. Between greasing the rogue right out of a bonedrinker's grasp, to providing a screen of illusory dwarves (they smelled illusory too) against a horde of zombies while the warmage mopped up, to disguising myself as the mohrg ordering around a few club-wielding zombies and convincing them that they needed to be beating on the real mohrg, I felt pretty darn useful and had a damn good time figuring out how I could make all of my spells apply. Heck, I've infliltrated a heavily armed ziggurat, lured out a green dragon that was about to ambush us, won the love of a liontaur, put on a number of respectable illusion shows, convinced scorpion cultists that I was the half-scorpion spawn of their deity and forced them to worship me (twice), forced a half-djinn jackal man to hit himself with his battleaxe (this was at breakfast, which Cyril was eating... defensively), color sprayed a group of kidnapped children (I was aiming for the kobolds), and unwittingly appeared as a sand worm to wary caravan guards before exploding into butterflies and declaring myself Muab'dib, the caravan's savior. Needless to say, I freaking love illusionists. Every single session with this character is a memorable one.

So, I heartily encourage you to play an illusionist, and discover the joys of ridiculous and creative combat and roleplaying that only an illusionist can bring.
#4

phaedrusxy

Apr 09, 2008 0:25:46
Making Illusions of higher level spells can work well, if the enemy is smart enough to know to be afraid of them. I used a Silent Image of a Prismatic Sphere with an NPC once. The PCs were afraid to touch it. :P

I have an arena character that is a cleric with the Illusion and Trickery domains that I plan to take into Shadowcraft Mage eventually, if he makes it that far. He has the domain spontaneity variant from PHB2 for the Illusion domain. His first match started yesterday.
#5

esuom

Apr 09, 2008 1:24:39
That sounds pretty damn fun i have to say. I never even thought to thing of such big monstrous creatures to appear .

I cant wait till my DM rolls out a campaign where a wizard will fit nicely.

As you were talking about those archers, where they really attacking and dealing dmg, or was it just an illusion of them firing? I'm confused on that as i have never played a wizard or should i say caster of any sort. And i can freaking wait to..

Anymore input or stories are greatly appreciated, i need all the help i can get at this if i really want to pull this off for the first time as a caster.

Thanks a bunch.
#6

Mad_Jack

Apr 09, 2008 3:26:13
Moreso than any other specialist, as an illusionist the key to your success will be spontaneity, being able to adapt creatively to the situation.
And the key to spontaneity is preparation.
Learn exactly what each spell does and how it does it. Learn just how far you can push the limits of each spell. Illusion is an art of psychology and appearances as much as it is a school of magic. Be a twisted sneaky bastard.
Spend some time coming up with general strategies for each spell based on their limitations - with most spells, you need to know what they can do...with illusions, knowing what you can't do with a spell is just as important. Other than keeping in mind things like maximum ranges, what you can do with an illusion spell is limited only by the extent of your imagination and creativity.
For example, Silent Image won't provide sound, so it's not a good spell to use if you want to convince somebody there's an ogre chasing them. On the other hand, it's great for convincing somebody you just cast Wall of Stone to block off the street.
You should always have a good handful of general strategies and tactics, things you can do with your spells that are useful in a wide variety of situations that you can string together on the fly to get even better results than you'd get individually. Don't ever forget your non-illusion spells, either.
Like the others have said, convince people that you're more powerful than you really are. Use your spells to confuse people and keep them off guard until you hit them hard from their blind side. When it comes to throwing a monkeywrench into the bad guys' plans, you can toss monkeywrenches like a knifethrower at the circus.

I played a ranger/illusionist way back in 1st Edition, and I've updated her for each edition since. As a multiclassed character she didn't have that many spells, but she didn't need a lot of them - you'd be amazed how easy it is to steer people where you want them to go when they think that the whole area's covered in poison ivy.
#7

oatsmalone

Apr 09, 2008 8:51:08
What Mad Jack said is true; knowing how each spell operates, specifically, is vital to your success.

The archers were just a minor image, so they had no effect on the real world and were thus no actual threat to the goblins. And according to the image, the arrows fell *just* short. What was important was that the exposed members of the party didn't get slaughtered by volleys of arrows.

And part of the fun of an illusionist is making spells work when they really shouldn't. While there's a certain element of that inherent in any wizard, since he prepares a specific set of spells and must apply those tools to any number of situation, an illusionists tools are frighteningly flexible. I've used Disguise Self in combat a number of times, and it's been a significant play each time.
#8

dunsel

Apr 09, 2008 13:58:24
I have played an illusionist under two different DMs, one thought illusions were cool and the other didn't consider them to be real magic.

The first one was a great experience but the other sucked!

While the illusionist must live by his wits and be able to think very quickly, the DM must also be flexible.
#9

rosisha

Apr 10, 2008 1:03:43
One of my favorite characters was an illusionist combined with enchantment/charm. It is devestating. I also, of course, played the gnome, and made it a great combo. Always was a good combo, even in 2e, but still is today.

My favorite was that at first level, adventuring out in the wilderness, we were attacked by bugbears or some such. I was hit hard (from 6 hit points I was sent to 1 hit point), so I fell back (quickly!), and used silent image to create the image of stone spikes ripping out of the ground. The bug bear failed its save and our fighter was able to "pin" it against my "spikes." hehe!

Another time I used silent image, was against a very clever opponent who knew that I was an Illusionist. I laid out some caltrops, and made a silent image of an empty hallway. I then made a silent image of the hallway floor with the caltrops. Our DM had used this trick against us earlier, how you have to save against each illusion, not one save for all of them, and it worked in reverse. He was not happy :D The guy comes in, sees the floor and stops... he gets a save with his bonus for not believing, and, of course, succeeds. But then, he got a penalty to his next save (as happened to us), and failed so he believed the true illusion.

That was very complex but it was just a layer:

---^---^--- = Illusion (+2 to disbelieve)
------------ = Illusion (-4 to disbelieve)
---^---^--- = Real! (Owe owe owe!)

So layered was fun.

I also used a silent image and change self to make it look like I was a member of a cult we were trying to infiltrate. I told my DM I was walking in through the front door and I did! Using Charm Person I convinced another cultist that I was his best friend and we were going to one day be the head cultists, and so we conspired together to take down the real problem for our Glorious God: the leadership.

That was a fun adventure. Most of the time was spent with the main party, but I was feeding them maps, information, troop movements, sabotauging equipment... and I was doing it and being seen as a hero from the people we were killing!!!

God I love Illusion.

Now, you do need a high int, high charisma to do what I did. I also always depend on mundane approaches to getting things done. Illusionism isn't about blowing away your targets (the work hard approach), it is about thinking away your targets (the work smart approach!).

Rosisha
#10

narack

Apr 10, 2008 7:26:08
Illusion is real nice, and it's also the Shadow Craft branch.
#11

drmorganes

Apr 10, 2008 13:57:52
Illusions can be fun, to be sure. However, to be effective, one must be prepared (and able) to use "real" magic. More than any other school of magic, you simply have to understand the subtle differences between Illusion's subschoold: figments, glamers, patterns, phantasms, and shadows. Fortunately, All About Illusions, Part 1 does a bang-up job of very clearly explaining what each one is and what it can - and just as importantly - cannot do.

All About Illusions, Part 2 covers aiming, targeting, area, effect, and the all-important disbelief.

All About Illusions, Part 3 handles actually interacting with illusions, which is something both you and the DM will want to read, discuss, and agree upon before you even prepare an illusion.

All About Illusions, Part 4 has additional advice for dealing with figments and shadows.
#12

symphonic_tempest

Apr 10, 2008 17:51:15
Here's something for the other side of the argument:

Illusionists are great, but if you ever get through their tricks, they don't have as much "real" power. (Shadowcraft killer gnome cheese aside - legal or no, I don't know many DMs who'd allow it, mostly for RAI or cheese reasons).

Now, the good news is that the vast majority of enemies aren't that intelligent. But what happens when you come across the NPC conjurer? I've met plenty of DMs who as a rule optimize as much as their players do, so this isn't too unlikely. You cast a Cloudkill and a Summon Monster IV, followed by a couple illusions of clouds and archers, hoping they won't test their luck. Bad news is, your enemy spellcaster made his Spellcraft checks, and knows which of your spells are illusions. You Disguise Self into him and try to confuse his minions, and he drops a Dispel Magic on you. Etc, etc.

I don't deny the power of the Illusion school - the above stories have shown how it can have an uparalleled ability to defeat encounters with only a few low-level spells. When it comes down to it, though, your power is in fooling and confusing, and against an opponent (and here I'll mention that many, if not most BBEGs are spellcasters with high Int and/or Wis) who sees through your trickery, either with common sense, or with Spellcraft and Dispel Magic, you don't have any Actual Power.

A Conjurer or Transmuter on the other hand always has that power. Just my - I see how it's powerful, but as a super-intelligent spellcaster, I try to avoid situations where a single thing can basically strip me of my power.
#13

shaggy_shaggs

Apr 10, 2008 18:06:51
The above is why no sane specialist takes only spells of their specialized school.
#14

symphonic_tempest

Apr 10, 2008 20:58:06
The above is why no sane specialist takes only spells of their specialized school.

True - I've just never felt that I could do any less as a conjurer, say, and my spells don't go away against a savvy opponent who has common sense.
#15

nordicbirch

Apr 11, 2008 5:21:14
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1010026
A spell by spell breakdown of the illusion school. TreantMonk has opinions on how a wizard is best utilised but he's pretty open about them.
#16

phaedrusxy

Apr 11, 2008 12:12:12
There is a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel that lets you disguise your spells as something else when an enemy makes a Spellcraft check to identify them. There is no opposed roll. It just works. It should be insanely good for Illusionists trying to fool other spellcasters.
#17

captain_madrick

Apr 12, 2008 9:47:25
Personally if you're going to focus on Illusion spells more than anything else, try playing the Beguiler. Even if you don't use the combat aspect, the boosted DCs are nice, and just stay outta sight. Also, you can use Advanced Learning to take those Shadow Conjuration spells to add to your repetoire.

Also, make sure your DM will appreciate your creativity with the use of these spells. If your DM thinks illusions are cantrip level magic and nothing more, there's no point.
#18

g23armani

Apr 13, 2008 13:00:01
I'm running an illusionist right now, and it's the most fun I've ever had with a character. Cyril Alexander, Master of Shadow. He's a human, actually...

I intend to take Cyril into the Shadowcraft Mage PrC, which will allow him to make his images oh-so-real, as per the Killer Gnome build that's somewhere around the CharOp boards.

There's a reason the Killer Gnome is called a Killer Gnome...

Shadowcraft Mage
Requirements:
Race: Gnome
(among others)

Hopefully you already ran this by your DM =)

Cool use of illusions though!
#19

oatsmalone

Apr 13, 2008 16:09:18
There's a reason the Killer Gnome is called a Killer Gnome...

Shadowcraft Mage
Requirements:
Race: Gnome
(among others)

Hopefully you already ran this by your DM =)

Cool use of illusions though!

Oh, of course. The head of illusion at the Academy of Magic that took Cyril in was a gnome, and gave him a book of secret Gnome techniques involving the Plane of Shadows. He's studying it (though still not comprehending it quite yet) and will take his first levels when he gets to the Gnomish homeland, Kalamar, and their prestigious universities. The Shadowcraft Mages form a full-blown organization in the campaign world, so he decided that it would be okay if Cyril took the class, since he's meeting all of the other requirements, and since I wanted to play a human over a gnome for flavor and backstory, not for mechanical benefit.