Are the 'classics' now 'golden oldies'? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Are the 'classics' now 'golden oldies'?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Demetri_Knighthawk
Jul 12, 2009 22:44:50 When the new books came out what... just last year? I played a dwarven infernal warlock. now I come back to the table as a player and now there are so many choices now in species and classes... Does the origional Eladrin Cleric still go toe-to-toe with the Deva Avenger, or is he already obsoulite(sp)?
#2
salla
Jul 12, 2009 22:46:19 That's not really a decent comparison, as one is a Leader and the other is a Striker. They do two completely different things (plus you picked a lousy race for a cleric and a prime race for a striker).

The short answer is: No, the new classes do not obsolete older ones.
#3
doctorhook
Jul 12, 2009 22:50:28
When the new books came out what... just last year? I played a dwarven infernal warlock. now I come back to the table as a player and now there are so many choices now in species and classes... Does the origional Eladrin Cleric still go toe-to-toe with the Deva Avenger, or is he already obsoulite(sp)?

Obsolete? No, I wouldn't say so at all. In some case, a few of the earlier classes have class features or powers that aren't quite as good as older similar features or powers in newer classes, but WotC has gradually been rolling out content that fixes that.

Some folks will tell you that the older races and classes sometimes seem "boring" in comparison to the newer ones, but that has less to do with mechanics than the sheer volume of combinations that are available in 4E after only one year! (And to think that a few ridiculous people used to say that 4E "didn't offer as many options as 3.5E"; that complaint was specious to begin with, and all the moreso as more content has been released for 4E.)
#4
Nyarlathotep
Jul 12, 2009 22:53:21 I don't think any of the new classes (so far) render any of the old ones obsolete. I think new ones have a bit of "new game smell" to them which makes them slightly more attractive to some people, but the PHB1 classes stil stack up favorably to their later counterparts, IMO.
#5
Novacat
Jul 12, 2009 23:20:06 For one thing, I'd take a Fighter as a party defender over a Swordmage or Warden any day.

I'd rather have a rogue in the party than any other striker.

Warlord is still far and away my favorite class, and in my totally unbiased opinion, kicks the socks off the other Leaders.

I have no opinion on controllers, but I will say that the Invoker holds no interest to me. No particular reason, I just am not drawn to it at all.
#6
LFK
Jul 12, 2009 23:34:44
I have no opinion on controllers, but I will say that the Invoker holds no interest to me. No particular reason, I just am not drawn to it at all.

Invoker and Druid have some really neat tricks, but Wizard + Arcane Power has so many options that it's really, really hard to pass up if you're looking for pure control.
#7
MatthiasKaiser
Jul 12, 2009 23:36:44 My group started the current campaign after PHB2's release, and more than half of us play races and classes from the original PHB. We find our choices to be interesting, fun, and effective. We've started looking ahead to our next campaign, which I will be running, and the two concepts submitted to me so far are both races and classes from the original PHB. So no, I don't believe those races and classes have been replaced.

There's plenty of love for PHB2 material, but we haven't run out of PHB1 ideas we want to use yet.
#8
satori
Jul 12, 2009 23:55:55 Tiefling Fanboys unite!

PHB 1 obsolete...pshaw.
#9
scipio
Jul 13, 2009 0:54:36 When PHB2 came out my group jumped on it and played entirely PHB2 class/race combos. Shortly after that game started, the new game smell wore off and I grew bored of the warden. What class did I switch to? Rogue. (Half orc, but still I was PHB1 for class.)
#10
Arcane_Guyver
Jul 13, 2009 2:10:12 I have yet to play anything from the PH2, be it race or class. I just think the original collection of races & classes in the PH1 are very compelling, and I haven't had a chance to try all the options from it just yet.

Tieflings are awesome!
#11
incenjucar
Jul 13, 2009 2:16:12 This is the beauty of the power splatbooks.

The older the class, the more options available to it, so they'll keep a decent following throughout the life of the edition.
#12
DoctorBadWolf
Jul 13, 2009 4:16:56
For one thing, I'd take a Fighter as a party defender over a Swordmage or Warden any day.

I'd rather have a rogue in the party than any other striker.

Warlord is still far and away my favorite class, and in my totally unbiased opinion, kicks the socks off the other Leaders.

I have no opinion on controllers, but I will say that the Invoker holds no interest to me. No particular reason, I just am not drawn to it at all.

Personally I'm tempted to say that the Bard outshines the Warlord, or at the very, very least is just as good, but my opinion may be biased. :P
#13
Proin
Jul 13, 2009 4:36:19 You're still using PHB1 and 2 Classes?

Man, you guys are so far behind the power curve, it's all about the hybrids, now! ;)

Eladrin will always be the greatest race, ever, though.
#14
Walstafa
Jul 13, 2009 4:51:04
Obsolete? No, I wouldn't say so at all. In some case, a few of the earlier classes have class features or powers that aren't quite as good as older similar features or powers in newer classes, but WotC has gradually been rolling out content that fixes that.

Don't I know it. I love my Paladin and I wouldn't want to play another class (although I'll admit occasional jealousy at how easy Fighters have it) but boy has Divine Power been a long time coming!
#15
Seeker95
Jul 13, 2009 7:24:32 Are the 'classics' now 'golden oldies'?
No.

Does the original Eladrin Cleric still go toe-to-toe with the Deva Avenger, or is he already obsolete?
Yes and no, respectively.
#16
Alas
Jul 13, 2009 7:51:45 The first batch of classes may now be considered "retro chic." Naw, but what's great is the chance to mix a little something old, a little something new. A changeling resourceful warlord, for example.

Tieflings are awesome!

That picture of the tiefling psion that's been showing up lately is pretty sweet, too. Horns and halos? Psychic halos? If that's lame, hit me in the kneecaps*.

*Please do not hit me in the kneecaps.
#17
xanderdragon
Jul 13, 2009 14:50:12 As a comment/reply in general, I wish to tip my hat to all the players in the games I was in the last couple months, who ran their wizards, warlords, paladin, fighters, rangers, and rogues. They have been solid to play alongside while I ran my sorcerer, druid, and monk. My companions had very solid builds, and from what I recall, used mostly PHB1 material. The others I've seen around-- warden, bard, barbarian, swordmage to name a few (excluding my own oddball stuff)-- have been just as valuable and helpful to the party.
#18
DoctorBadWolf
Jul 14, 2009 7:13:08 had a weird and fun experience recently in group comprised of a half-elf bard(me, and no, it wasn't a optimization choice, it was a combo of a 3.5 do-over, and wanting him to be related to my other char in the campaign, and not wanting to play a human again), a dragonborn warlord, a drow rogue, and a half-orc barb.

so much destroying. me and the other leader worked quite differently, so very little stepping on toes, and the barb and rogue worked great together to increase eachother's efficacy, though not always efficiency.

It helped that we all really like the personallity of our own characters and eachothers' characters.

I cite this experience because we were half retro chic and half new hotness, one and one in both the roles represented, and no one felt obsolete and I don't think anyone was ubered, minmaxed or any other adjective people use to describe builds made for the OP. The barb had rituals, and diplomacy.(trader and diplomat, of sorts, for the kingdom of many arrows.) the warlord had skill feats, I had...well feats leading up to the fighting style i first envisioned, involving a rapier and parrying dagger. For now a scimitar that i pretend is a european style saber.

we were all effective, no one ever felt left out.

and incidentally, two strikers two leaders seems to be a very very effective party set up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Demetri_Knighthawk Jul 12, 2009 22:44:50	When the new books came out what... just last year? I played a dwarven infernal warlock. now I come back to the table as a player and now there are so many choices now in species and classes... Does the origional Eladrin Cleric still go toe-to-toe with the Deva Avenger, or is he already obsoulite(sp)?
#2 salla Jul 12, 2009 22:46:19	That's not really a decent comparison, as one is a Leader and the other is a Striker. They do two completely different things (plus you picked a lousy race for a cleric and a prime race for a striker). The short answer is: No, the new classes do not obsolete older ones.
#3 doctorhook Jul 12, 2009 22:50:28	When the new books came out what... just last year? I played a dwarven infernal warlock. now I come back to the table as a player and now there are so many choices now in species and classes... Does the origional Eladrin Cleric still go toe-to-toe with the Deva Avenger, or is he already obsoulite(sp)? Obsolete? No, I wouldn't say so at all. In some case, a few of the earlier classes have class features or powers that aren't quite as good as older similar features or powers in newer classes, but WotC has gradually been rolling out content that fixes that. Some folks will tell you that the older races and classes sometimes seem "boring" in comparison to the newer ones, but that has less to do with mechanics than the sheer volume of combinations that are available in 4E after only one year! (And to think that a few ridiculous people used to say that 4E "didn't offer as many options as 3.5E"; that complaint was specious to begin with, and all the moreso as more content has been released for 4E.)
#4 Nyarlathotep Jul 12, 2009 22:53:21	I don't think any of the new classes (so far) render any of the old ones obsolete. I think new ones have a bit of "new game smell" to them which makes them slightly more attractive to some people, but the PHB1 classes stil stack up favorably to their later counterparts, IMO.
#5 Novacat Jul 12, 2009 23:20:06	For one thing, I'd take a Fighter as a party defender over a Swordmage or Warden any day. I'd rather have a rogue in the party than any other striker. Warlord is still far and away my favorite class, and in my totally unbiased opinion, kicks the socks off the other Leaders. I have no opinion on controllers, but I will say that the Invoker holds no interest to me. No particular reason, I just am not drawn to it at all.
#6 LFK Jul 12, 2009 23:34:44	I have no opinion on controllers, but I will say that the Invoker holds no interest to me. No particular reason, I just am not drawn to it at all. Invoker and Druid have some really neat tricks, but Wizard + Arcane Power has so many options that it's really, really hard to pass up if you're looking for pure control.
#7 MatthiasKaiser Jul 12, 2009 23:36:44	My group started the current campaign after PHB2's release, and more than half of us play races and classes from the original PHB. We find our choices to be interesting, fun, and effective. We've started looking ahead to our next campaign, which I will be running, and the two concepts submitted to me so far are both races and classes from the original PHB. So no, I don't believe those races and classes have been replaced. There's plenty of love for PHB2 material, but we haven't run out of PHB1 ideas we want to use yet.
#8 satori Jul 12, 2009 23:55:55	Tiefling Fanboys unite! PHB 1 obsolete...pshaw.
#9 scipio Jul 13, 2009 0:54:36	When PHB2 came out my group jumped on it and played entirely PHB2 class/race combos. Shortly after that game started, the new game smell wore off and I grew bored of the warden. What class did I switch to? Rogue. (Half orc, but still I was PHB1 for class.)
#10 Arcane_Guyver Jul 13, 2009 2:10:12	I have yet to play anything from the PH2, be it race or class. I just think the original collection of races & classes in the PH1 are very compelling, and I haven't had a chance to try all the options from it just yet. Tieflings are awesome!
#11 incenjucar Jul 13, 2009 2:16:12	This is the beauty of the power splatbooks. The older the class, the more options available to it, so they'll keep a decent following throughout the life of the edition.
#12 DoctorBadWolf Jul 13, 2009 4:16:56	For one thing, I'd take a Fighter as a party defender over a Swordmage or Warden any day. I'd rather have a rogue in the party than any other striker. Warlord is still far and away my favorite class, and in my totally unbiased opinion, kicks the socks off the other Leaders. I have no opinion on controllers, but I will say that the Invoker holds no interest to me. No particular reason, I just am not drawn to it at all. Personally I'm tempted to say that the Bard outshines the Warlord, or at the very, very least is just as good, but my opinion may be biased. :P
#13 Proin Jul 13, 2009 4:36:19	You're still using PHB1 and 2 Classes? Man, you guys are so far behind the power curve, it's all about the hybrids, now! ;) Eladrin will always be the greatest race, ever, though.
#14 Walstafa Jul 13, 2009 4:51:04	Obsolete? No, I wouldn't say so at all. In some case, a few of the earlier classes have class features or powers that aren't quite as good as older similar features or powers in newer classes, but WotC has gradually been rolling out content that fixes that. Don't I know it. I love my Paladin and I wouldn't want to play another class (although I'll admit occasional jealousy at how easy Fighters have it) but boy has Divine Power been a long time coming!
#15 Seeker95 Jul 13, 2009 7:24:32	Are the 'classics' now 'golden oldies'? No. Does the original Eladrin Cleric still go toe-to-toe with the Deva Avenger, or is he already obsolete? Yes and no, respectively.
#16 Alas Jul 13, 2009 7:51:45	The first batch of classes may now be considered "retro chic." Naw, but what's great is the chance to mix a little something old, a little something new. A changeling resourceful warlord, for example. Tieflings are awesome! That picture of the tiefling psion that's been showing up lately is pretty sweet, too. Horns and halos? Psychic halos? If that's lame, hit me in the kneecaps. Please do not hit me in the kneecaps.
#17 xanderdragon Jul 13, 2009 14:50:12	As a comment/reply in general, I wish to tip my hat to all the players in the games I was in the last couple months, who ran their wizards, warlords, paladin, fighters, rangers, and rogues. They have been solid to play alongside while I ran my sorcerer, druid, and monk. My companions had very solid builds, and from what I recall, used mostly PHB1 material. The others I've seen around-- warden, bard, barbarian, swordmage to name a few (excluding my own oddball stuff)-- have been just as valuable and helpful to the party.
#18 DoctorBadWolf Jul 14, 2009 7:13:08	had a weird and fun experience recently in group comprised of a half-elf bard(me, and no, it wasn't a optimization choice, it was a combo of a 3.5 do-over, and wanting him to be related to my other char in the campaign, and not wanting to play a human again), a dragonborn warlord, a drow rogue, and a half-orc barb. so much destroying. me and the other leader worked quite differently, so very little stepping on toes, and the barb and rogue worked great together to increase eachother's efficacy, though not always efficiency. It helped that we all really like the personallity of our own characters and eachothers' characters. I cite this experience because we were half retro chic and half new hotness, one and one in both the roles represented, and no one felt obsolete and I don't think anyone was ubered, minmaxed or any other adjective people use to describe builds made for the OP. The barb had rituals, and diplomacy.(trader and diplomat, of sorts, for the kingdom of many arrows.) the warlord had skill feats, I had...well feats leading up to the fighting style i first envisioned, involving a rapier and parrying dagger. For now a scimitar that i pretend is a european style saber. we were all effective, no one ever felt left out. and incidentally, two strikers two leaders seems to be a very very effective party set up.