I thought I'd post this here on behalf of our avenger as 2 questions arose:
#1 Our avenger has just decided to purchase a fullblade (high crit on 19/20) and as such I come to the following problem with high crit: Considering a natural 20 is "always a hit" does this go for the 19 as well? If the avenger rolls a 19 does this count as an automatic hit as well, despite the minusses (sp?)?
#2 As most of her powers involve her weapon as an implement, I am assuming her abilities using the Full Blade will also crit on 19/20. Am I correct in assuming this?
Thanx in advance!
Hi all!
I thought I'd post this here on behalf of our avenger as 2 questions arose:
#1 Our avenger has just decided to purchase a fullblade (high crit on 19/20) and as such I come to the following problem with high crit: Considering a natural 20 is "always a hit" does this go for the 19 as well? If the avenger rolls a 19 does this count as an automatic hit as well, despite the minusses (sp?)?
No - PHB 278. Precision - Only a nat 20 is an automatic hit.
But aside from that, I'm not sure an Avenger can USE a full blade. Full Blade is Superior two-handedmelee weapon. Avenger weapon proficiencies are simple melee, military melee and simple ranged.
If I'm reading this right - and it's hazy for me still - one must take the feat to gain proficiency with the full blade in order to use it.
It is indeed mentioned as Superior Melee Weapons, just never occured to me that would require a feat.
I will discuss it!
Thank you for your help on that one!
No - PHB 278. Precision - Only a nat 20 is an automatic hit.
But aside from that, I'm not sure an Avenger can USE a full blade. Full Blade is Superior two-handedmelee weapon. Avenger weapon proficiencies are simple melee, military melee and simple ranged.
If I'm reading this right - and it's hazy for me still - one must take the feat to gain proficiency with the full blade in order to use it.
They can still use it, they just don't get the proficency bonus.
2. Weapons are not Avenger Implements. HOLY SYMBOLS are.
But, yes, Powers with the "Weapon" Keyword will Crit on a natural roll of 20. If the Avenger also has Heavy Blade Mastery, he will score a Crit on a natural roll of 19 or 20.
Remember, High Crit means extra damage on a crit, not easier to crit with.
I used the system of ranged attacks using the holy symbol and melee attacks to use the sword. Was I mistaking all this time?
Really? I sort of interpreted the rules of a weapon attack using an implement for the weapon to be the actual implement.
I used the system of ranged attacks using the holy symbol and melee attacks to use the sword. Was I mistaking all this time?
"Implement" has a VERY specific meaning in 4e.
"Weapon" and "Implement" are not inherently synonomus.
Yes, the Melee attacks for the Avenger are "Weapon" powers, and benefit from the high Crit property, meaning that if a Crit is scored, extra damage is dealt.
Again, High Crit does not increase the range of criticals. ignoring other effects, a fullblade crits on a 20 only. Just like every other weapon in 4e.
So to recap:
An attack made with a melee at will power using implement will benefit from the high crit status of the fullblade.
But your second statement confused me, the high crit range states it crits on a 19/20. Does this mean on basic melee attacks only?
They can still use it, they just don't get the proficency bonus.
I think I found something that disproves this:
Weapon Categories
Weapons fall into four categories. Improvised weapons
aren’t weapons you train with—they’re objects
you pick up to hit someone with. Punching or kicking
someone is also considered an improvised weapon.
Simple weapons are basic, requiring little more
skill than lifting and hitting with the business end.
Military weapons are designed for skilled users. Balance
and precision are important factors when using
military weapons, and someone without the proper
training can’t use them effectively. Superior weapons
are even more effective than military weapons
but require special training to use. You can learn to
use a superior weapon by taking the Weapon Proficiency
feat.
Italic underline mine
That says to me that you must take the feat to even USE it, not just to get proficiency.
Good lord I am confused now.
So to recap:
An attack made with a melee at will power using implement will benefit from the high crit status of the fullblade.
But your second statement confused me, the high crit range states it crits on a 19/20. Does this mean on basic melee attacks only?
Not for a fullblade. Not unless the player has a power that gives them a crit on 19 or 20.
Superior two-handedmelee weapon
Cost: 30 gp
Damage: 1d12
Proficient: +3
Range: -
Weight: 10 lb.
This enormous, two-handed sword is favored by fighters and paladins.
Properties:
High Crit (A high crit weapon deals more damage when you score a critical hit with it. A critical hit deals maximum weapon damage and an extra 1[W] at 1st–10th levels, an extra 2[W] at 11th–20th levels, and an extra 3[W] at 21st–30th levels. This extra damage is in addition to any critical damage the weapon supplies if it is a magic weapon.).
Group:
Heavy blade (Blades are balanced edged weapons. Heavy blades share some of the precision of light blades and some of the mass of axes. Heavy blades are used primarily for slashing cuts rather than stabs and thrusts.).
No mention of 19/20 crits.
I think I found something that disproves this:
Italic underline mine
That says to me that you must take the feat to even USE it, not just to get proficiency.
You quoted non-mechanics text to prove mechanics.
So you also read the section for Proficency bonus?
AFB, so I can't put it here. Read that section next. :D
An attack made with a melee at will power using implement will benefit from the high crit status of the fullblade.
No. A melee attack with the weapon keyword will benefit from the fullblade's stats. Attack powers generally have either weapon or implement, but not both.
The avenger's at-will melee attacks are all weapon attacks though. I don't see any melee implement powers at all for an avenger.
But your second statement confused me, the high crit range states it crits on a 19/20. Does this mean on basic melee attacks only?
"A high crit weapon deals more damage when you score a critical hit with it."
The high crit property doesn't crit on a 19, it just does more damage when it does hit.
She could have the expanded crit range from something else though, like the Heavy Blade Mastery feat.
You quoted non-mechanics text to prove mechanics.
Define "mechanics text"
It says Superior Weapons require training to use in what I quoted. Where does the PHB say you can use a weapon w/o training? I'm finding the language regarding weapon usage to .. well to suck badly, honestly.
So you also read the section for Proficency bonus?
AFB, so I can't put it here. Read that section next. :D
I'm reading that to mean if you can use it AND are proficient you get a +3. If not proficient, no +3. If you can't use it, you can't use it.
But I can't find anything to back that up - very unclear.
Define "mechanics text"
It says Superior Weapons require training to use in what I quoted. Where does the PHB say you can use a weapon w/o training? I'm finding the language regarding weapon usage to .. well to suck badly, honestly.
I'm reading that to mean if you can use it AND are proficient you get a +3. If not proficient, no +3. If you can't use it, you can't use it.
But I can't find anything to back that up - very unclear.
Like I said, I'm away from the book. I'm probably going to forget to check it tonight, as I have a test to study for, and even if I don't, I won't be able to post while I have the book.
You're using a non-rules description to back up a mechanical point. Much like my friend who says he can't use Lay on Hands on himself because of what the flavor text says.
But I do suspect that in this case it was just not well thought out.