In talking about these problems, we can also inform any individuals who are either DMs themselves or who are considering taking up the mantle what sorts of hazards there are in such a position. Sometimes there's just so much to do with DMing that even what can seem the most obvious things end up overlooked. With this thread, there can hopefully be things that any DM can learn to do or to avoid in their game in order to make it a more positive experience for everyone involved.
Remember that we are here to support one another, much like support groups IRL, but without the plate of snacks and the circle of chairs. Please do not flame.
I will be the first to get some poor experiences off of my chest.
My first D&D experience was not exactly positive. I had read the core rulebooks a year earlier for fun, and was kind of excited at the idea of actually playing. My DM had been playing for I think seven years, so of course I trusted him to know the rules as well as he said he did. Playing in the group were a friend of ours who had played before, but had been away from the game for about 3-5 years (henceforward player A). Then there was our friend who had played in most of the games that the DM had played in, and had as many years experience (henceforward player B). Rounding out the group were myself and another person who had never played before (henceforward player C). She had no idea of what to do for anything relating to the game, but the DM had assured us that we would be helped along.
If that had only been the case. During the first meeting, when we were making characters, I was managing to go at least part way through character creation myself, since I was already a bit familiar with the books. I ended up helping player C out as well, since the DM was too busy figuring out the story that we'd be going through. When we did have something that we needed help with, he would tell us to ask player B, who was too absorbed in creating his character to be arsed. When C got frustrated and asked more sharply for help, the DM very crankily looked at the sheets and filled things in for us. We got no help with feat or skill selection, and had to figure it out on our own.
We made it through character creation, and the game was underway. I was playing a bard, because I thought it would be a fun class. We basically messed about in town, and that was the end of that session. With session two, we showed up, and as the DM sat down he announced that he had not planned anything out for this session, so he was going to have a "cliched orc army attacking the town" scenario.
So my bard is off playing his instrument in town somewhere, and the DM has us make listen checks (to see who hears the war drums). My wisdom was giving me a -1, and I had no ranks in Listen (if I had known how important it was, I would have). I rolled a 3, for a grand total of 2 on my check. He laughed (laughed!) and said the DC had been 5, and holy crap how could I have failed a check that low? This hurt my feelings, but I persevered, resolving to do better for the rest of this session.
Now people are preparing, and a kindly commoner has filled me in on the situation (everyone else made their listen checks and were running around setting up defenses with townsfolk). I decide that, as a bard, I could play an inspiring tune to help lift spirits and inspire extra effort! I tell the DM that I am doing so, and he rolls his eyes (rolls his eyes!) and says okay.
The rest of the session involved my bard's near death at the hands of two goblins, and another laugh at the uselessness of the dog I had summoned with Summon Monster I.
The group broke up right before the third session even started because the DM and player C got into an argument.
Some time later, he asks if I'd like to be a part of a new campaign he has planned out. I go for it, because I still have almost no experience under my belt. This campaign, to sum it up, had two things that made it a let-down:
1) We were basically pushed along in the DM's story, complete with epic level DM PCs and railroading of our actions. There were numerous (in fact, more often than not) occasions where we were faced with a creature far more powerful than our characters could handle, and an epic level character came along and took care of it. We weren't even sidekicks. It felt like being travelling bystanders.
2) Various things happened that I think could only be there in order to move his story along, and at one point we were in this alternate dimension type place that we had encountered several times before. There were these extremely powerful artifacts that were central to various events going on in the world, and one of the players had made it his goal to have them (henceforward player D). This time, in this alternate dimension (which we essentially knew nothing about) he absently wished that he had these artifacts. Poof. They are in his hands. Obviously we notice, and our group (who were all there for a good time to unwind at the end of the week) started testing this phenomenon. We apparently could wish for anything. After much messing about, one player decides to mess with player D and wish to have the artifacts instead. D hastily wishes for them back, and then, after almost dropping one, wishes that "Nothing could break" the artifacts.
The DM, who has started to look bored of our various silly wishes, keens up, and asks him to repeat his wish. Hearing it again, he says that the artifacts break, because "NOTHING broke them". He then proceeded to tell us that the shimmery world around us faded away, and we were now in the mountains up to our knees in snow. Snow? Mountains? Yes, apparently when "we" broke the artifacts, we had been in a dimension that connected all various points of time in this world, and somehow this meant that breaking them there made them never have existed. THEN he starts telling us that without these artifacts magic would never have existed in the world. THEN he tells us (while the wizard, the paladin, and the cleric are starting to freak out over their much reduced effectiveness) that all of reality had been altered, and without magic, history had turned out to have had the legions of Hell take down the legions of good and take over the world (and no, I still don't know why there were good and evil outsiders but no magic).
Shortly after this, our severely crippled group is split up, some are captured by devils, one guy dies when he heroicly charges into an army of devils that were attacking a town, and everyone else is captured and placed in an arena, where we battled each other to the death. Anyone who didn't comply was killed by some CR 17 or 20 or whatever devil (we were, oh, I think level 7).
Afterward, the DM can't stop talking about how ridiculous we were to have essentially brought about the end of the world, and how we could have done so many stupid things with unlimited wishes.
I only played one other game with him after that, and he basically denied my Bard any ability to use Diplomacy, which I had put max ranks into in order to be able to try and avoid fights when we could. "I'm going to try and avoid this fight with Diplomacy." "Fine, roll it." "I rolled a twenty! With my total of plus 12 to the check, that's a 32!" "Okay, cool, but unfortunately things are just too far gone for talking to work. Roll initiative."
That game and a game I played with Player B (from my first game) as DM made me also learn that the two of them enjoy messing with the players, and I realized that my characters were becoming particularly picked on in-game. I try to play my character as I've made it and things just "happen" so that my character ends up face down in the mud, or groping the big hairy green buttocks of an ogre I was trying to pick pocket (would have been nice to know that this one wasn't WEARING pants, thanks!), or what have you.
I was later told by a friend of mine that at one one-night D&D thing that I hadn't been able to make it to, I was referred to as the "target of destruction" anytime they played D&D. Apparently someone else was picked out in my place, and eventually got an arrow shot through one of his character's ********* by one of the other party members.
I won't go into my bad experiences with other DMs right now, perhaps another time. Some of the lessons for DMs that can be taken from the above are thus:
-When a player tells you what their plan for their character is (like a bard who focuses on Diplomacy), don't tell them that sounds like a fine character and then shoot down their attempts at what their character was made to do.
-Don't pick on or mess with a player or players. It isn't nice. The occasional harmless joke is okay in some groups of friends, but doing it alot is simply asinine.
-In a similar vein, don't laugh at or insult anyone for something that happens in-game. Some groups of friends will be able to do that okay every so often, but only when EVERYONE is laughing.
-Don't make the PCs insignificant in their own story unless you've all agreed to that beforehand. We want to feel like what we do is important, not inconsequential.
-PLAN your sessions ahead of time.
-Agreeing to help new player's means taking responsibility. Help them. Be patient with them. You were new once too, and this game was a big and scary and unfamiliar game for you then just as much as it is for them now.
-It is never, EVER the DM versus the players. You are all cooperating to make a game that's fun for everyone.
Quite honestly, when I remember my early game experiences, I'm kind of surprised that I kept playing. But I am, and I now have friends to play with who are fun to be around and who wince when I roll poorly instead of laughing. It's wonderful.
Thank you all for reading my ramblings. I hope this thread can be as helpful to at least some people as it has been for me.
I won't go into my bad experiences with other DMs right now, perhaps another time. Some of the lessons for DMs that can be taken from the above are thus:
-When a player tells you what their plan for their character is (like a bard who focuses on Diplomacy), don't tell them that sounds like a fine character and then shoot down their attempts at what their character was made to do.
-Don't pick on or mess with a player or players. It isn't nice. The occasional harmless joke is okay in some groups of friends, but doing it alot is simply asinine.
-In a similar vein, don't laugh at or insult anyone for something that happens in-game. Some groups of friends will be able to do that okay every so often, but only when EVERYONE is laughing.
-Don't make the PCs insignificant in their own story unless you've all agreed to that beforehand. We want to feel like what we do is important, not inconsequential.
-PLAN your sessions ahead of time.
-Agreeing to help new player's means taking responsibility. Help them. Be patient with them. You were new once too, and this game was a big and scary and unfamiliar game for you then just as much as it is for them now.
-It is never, EVER the DM versus the players. You are all cooperating to make a game that's fun for everyone.
Every point is a pretty good one - except for planning the sessions, they are all equally applicable to the players. Another player is just as capable of ruining your gaming experience as the DM.
Regardless of the OPs previous DM experience, I am very glad he stuck with the game.
We have all had bad DM and player experiences. My advice is to make sure that you and I are not another.
So my rogue (gimp vs. undead) just brings some masterwork weaponry with him, since that's his style. I had some magic, but it was for hiding and moving silently. Other players fortunately brought magic weapons, which had been suggested by the GM, but he didn't quite say how absolutely imperative it would be, as the first things we fought had .. 10 DR / Magic. Only we didn't know this (which is fine), just that every time I took a poke at the flying statue, my scratch marks would be minimal and quickly disappear.
So.. I spent about 3 hours tolerating this one battle, which somehow we managed to only lose one PC to death before we are teleported back out with only one opponent remaining.
Ok.. so now I am better prepared. I decide to give it another shot, and a week later I come back as a 4th level fighter with a magic weapon and full plate armor. Come git some o' me, suckas! A skeleton pops out and wails. I fail a will save. Over an hour of doing dishes and laundry later, I am able to participate again.
That sucked pretty hard. But I learned a valuable lesson that I can apply as a DM: Don't be lame. Ok.. the real lesson: Don't take players completely out of the action for extended periods of time. That is not a fun gaming experience. It sucks.
Note; This was way before I learned about proper ECL & Level Adjustment. Now I gotten over this whole issue but after all this was said and done when " I " wanted to play some monster...then the DM brings up the ECL & Level Adjustment rule.
warning bitter rant
I had a experience which I would consider bad with my DM about a year 1/2 ago, We just saw the new Pirates movie and he thought it would be great to do a pirate like campaign and we all agreed and one even offered to make a lego ship. Soo I was a little new with the rules plus needed help with my character from time to time, Now my DM always said he wants balance in our party soo he can manage things better. Now this is how we started out.
Me; female 1/2 elf druid
player#1: male duergar fighter; he wanted to be captain
player#2: male drow rogue; main goal was assasin
player#3: male human bard; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
NPC: duelist
Well first off I learned quickly about " drow&elfs " and It was me trying to not be knifed by the drow. Around Lv2 for some reason the fighter killed off his duergar to replace it with a normal dwarf fighter who strangely enough wanted to be the captain still. Now this is were it gets screwed up, Later on the dwarf and the npc die and get reincarnated back by a stronger druid. Now both the fighters are centaur ( player#1 ) and dire bear ? ( npc ) soo I'm like " wtf " since I was always that session.
Soo recap Lv2
Me; female 1/2 elf druid
player#1: male centuar fighter; he is captain
player#2: male drow rogue; main goal was assassin
player#3: male human bard; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
DM-NPC: dire bear duelist
Now at lv4 the drow or player#2 decides he wants to be a normal human monk, soo he ditches his drow for the monk. now in that same time he gets biten by a werewolf and becomes one. Now he quickly realise its more of a blessing then a curse plus the DM allows him to get his alignment. Now while this happening my PC dies and is brought back through some druid alter plus I found out I was on a secret mission by my ancestors. This remains the same until lv6, Now the DM allows the bard to take some prestige classes that nobody heard of or he never shown proof. Now the centaur fighter now bought the complete psionics and seen afro samurai...soo naturally he wants to make a human samurai with freaky pyropowers.
Soo recap Lv4-lv6
Me; female 1/2 elf druid; Now the captain
player#1: male human; ? some kind of samurai/psionic prestige class that doesn't work we found out but the DM still allowed it.
player#2: male werewolf monk
player#3: male human bard/imaginary powerfull prestige class; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
DM-NPC: male dire bear duelist
Soo now i'm the captain...of freaks. Soo I start to complain that everyone else is ripping through things, Plus the ego went through the roof with ultrapower PCs and it was annoying listening to bragging =/
Around lv8 the DM rules his NPC is too overpowered and replaces it with a gnome wizard npc that loved to torment my characters. Soo this continued until we ended the campaign at lv15. The whole time I was guestioning the whole balance thing he qouted often =/
Soo recap -lv8-lv15
3x overpowered PCs given to the three with the biggest ego
3x plan old core classes one being the npc [aside from them being the Wiz/Clr/Drd]
Me; female 1/2 elf druid; Now the captain
player#1: male human; ? still some kind of samurai/psionic prestige class that doesn't work
player#2: male uber werewolf monk
player#3: male uber human bard/imaginary powerfull prestige class; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
DM-NPC: male gnome wizard
I had a experience which I would consider bad with my DM about a year 1/2 ago, We just saw the new Pirates movie and he thought it would be great to do a pirate like campaign and we all agreed and one even offered to make a lego ship. Soo I was a little new with the rules plus needed help with my character from time to time, Now my DM always said he wants balance in our party soo he can manage things better. Now this is how we started out.
Me; female 1/2 elf druid
player#1: male duergar fighter; he wanted to be captain
player#2: male drow rogue; main goal was assasin
player#3: male human bard; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
NPC: duelist
Well first off I learned quickly about " drow&elfs " and It was me trying to not be knifed by the drow. Around Lv2 for some reason the fighter killed off his duergar to replace it with a normal dwarf fighter who strangely enough wanted to be the captain still. Now this is were it gets screwed up, Later on the dwarf and the npc die and get reincarnated back by a stronger druid. Now both the fighters are centaur ( player#1 ) and dire bear ? ( npc ) soo I'm like " wtf " since I was always that session.
Soo recap Lv2
Me; female 1/2 elf druid
player#1: male centuar fighter; he is captain
player#2: male drow rogue; main goal was assassin
player#3: male human bard; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
DM-NPC: dire bear duelist
Now at lv4 the drow or player#2 decides he wants to be a normal human monk, soo he ditches his drow for the monk. now in that same time he gets biten by a werewolf and becomes one. Now he quickly realise its more of a blessing then a curse plus the DM allows him to get his alignment. Now while this happening my PC dies and is brought back through some druid alter plus I found out I was on a secret mission by my ancestors. This remains the same until lv6, Now the DM allows the bard to take some prestige classes that nobody heard of or he never shown proof. Now the centaur fighter now bought the complete psionics and seen afro samurai...soo naturally he wants to make a human samurai with freaky pyropowers.
Soo recap Lv4-lv6
Me; female 1/2 elf druid; Now the captain
player#1: male human; ? some kind of samurai/psionic prestige class that doesn't work we found out but the DM still allowed it.
player#2: male werewolf monk
player#3: male human bard/imaginary powerfull prestige class; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
DM-NPC: male dire bear duelist
Soo now i'm the captain...of freaks. Soo I start to complain that everyone else is ripping through things, Plus the ego went through the roof with ultrapower PCs and it was annoying listening to bragging =/
Around lv8 the DM rules his NPC is too overpowered and replaces it with a gnome wizard npc that loved to torment my characters. Soo this continued until we ended the campaign at lv15. The whole time I was guestioning the whole balance thing he qouted often =/
Soo recap -lv8-lv15
3x overpowered PCs given to the three with the biggest ego
3x plan old core classes one being the npc [aside from them being the Wiz/Clr/Drd]
Me; female 1/2 elf druid; Now the captain
player#1: male human; ? still some kind of samurai/psionic prestige class that doesn't work
player#2: male uber werewolf monk
player#3: male uber human bard/imaginary powerfull prestige class; rarely showed up
player#4: male human cleric
DM-NPC: male gnome wizard
The Anecdote
So the first campaign that I ever ran was basically doomed to failure. Somehow, I ended up with 8 players, 5 of whom were vastly more experienced with the rules than I was at the time. While this normally could be considered a good thing (players who could help me out), 4 intended to use this knowledge to their advantage (loopholes, etc...), and one intended to use the information to "rate me" on my DMing ability.
No help whatsoever.
So anyways, with lots of fantasy stories in my head, and basically no grasp of power levels, I created a campaign that centered around a murder mystery, and a powerful dragon that was trying to collapse the local government. Really, it was an incredible concept.
Just not for 1st level characters...
I managed to run three encounters. It included some horribly planned traps, one completely out-of-place treasure room, and some of the worst weighted treasure rolls I could've dreamed up (in my defense, I was trying to give the party a way to solve the mystery).
The game crashed after 3 sessions.
No help whatsoever.
So anyways, with lots of fantasy stories in my head, and basically no grasp of power levels, I created a campaign that centered around a murder mystery, and a powerful dragon that was trying to collapse the local government. Really, it was an incredible concept.
Just not for 1st level characters...
I managed to run three encounters. It included some horribly planned traps, one completely out-of-place treasure room, and some of the worst weighted treasure rolls I could've dreamed up (in my defense, I was trying to give the party a way to solve the mystery).
The game crashed after 3 sessions.
1) In a 2E game in college where the DM in question and I were players, I had my cleric cast spells that were not Cure Light Wounds. The fellow player was incensed. During some combats I swung my staff in battle for a round or two. The fellow player was incensed. Next real world day he confronted me, yelling in front of my face about it in the Student Union building. When he next DMed, my character (a wizard, different campaign started) could not do anything right. Any plan I had failed. Any suggestion I had didn't work. Any tactic I used did not accomplish what I wanted. I got the hint. Our friendship was over because my cleric did not cast Cure Light Wounds.
2) Another DM in a 2E game in college. His adventures were too hard. Literally every combat a character died. Instead of someone casting Raise Dead, when the combat was over your character "woke up" but you lost a CON point. It became a joke. Whenever someone died everyone would shout "Lose a Con!". It was stupid. I stopped playing after one session.
3) 2E campaign after college. We've been playing together for nearly a year. New campaign started. The DM did not have my character start with the rest of the party. Everyone else roleplayed a bit. A combat started. It took about 45 minutes real world time to finish. Combat over. Roleplay some more. My character still had not "shown up". Another combat began. I left. DM blamed me for ruining that session because he had special plans for my character.
The second bad experience involves a DM who let the players get away with everything. They decided to essentially torture an NPC in the middle of a crowded tavern without any interference or changing the neutral good characters to neutral/chaotic neutral. Later in the session he railroaded us into a situation that could only lead to more railroading. We only played one session, me and the other player who didn't help break both the mans knees haven't heard about future sessions since.
Then, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there was this guy who wanted to DM, but had never played in our group before. He told us we could play any of our old “high level” characters, even if they had died. We trotted out our old favorites, which concerned me a little because we were level 12-15. I thought we would be underpowered for his “high level” adventure. Instead, it was a cake walk. We had plot immunity from the get-go. I remember encountering a dwarf and the human barbarian picked him up and hiked him like an (American-rules) football to the monk, who punted him out of the adventure – literally the dwarf was just gone. Not only could any character solo any encounter, but any character could one-shot most of them. I remember toning down a fireball once. “Why?” you ask; because I didn’t want the creature to be overcooked. We ate it. We literally started carving it up for dinner the next round.
“This must have been an RP-heavy adventure,” you say? Only what we players brought with us. Otherwise it was just a walk down the yellow-brick-road. In fact, the DM’s plot was so blatantly stolen from a novel that we had all read that we knew what was coming in advance. Our cleric quit about an hour into the game. She was the smart one. I want a memory eraser.
I think I need a hug.
Secondly: Another thread like this here.
Thirdly: My post from that page for people who don't like getting linked to other threads.
My current DM had banned the Wizard class from his Campaign and is restricting the Cleric. He was GOING to ban the Fighter class (because it was too organized) but I talked him out of it.
I actually have more to add to that post.
He was allowed to use any supplement that he wanted to, though we were not. We had what feats we could choose restricted. I wanted Two-Weapon Fighting, but I couldn't take it because "the style hadn't been invented yet." Also, my biggest regret is that there have only been 4 sessions in 10 months. [Thread Derail]Relatedly, but totally off topic: If anyone would mind PMing me some site that lists groups in your area, I'd be extremely grateful for it.[/Thread Derail]