So bottom line, would I be better as a pure barbarian or if I should choose a class and if so then what one?
Frenzied berserker in complete warrior is the prestige for you my smashy friend. Its on page 34 of that book
I disagree. Frenzied beserker may make your character powerful, but your fellow players may hate you for it. If you ever take even 1 damage, you go into a berserk rage and essentially become an NPC who attacks friend and foe alike. Not good.
I can't recommend any particular prestige class. Straight barbarian is pretty good as a pure warrior.
if you're in faerune there is the dwarven battle rager. there are a few other prc's for barbarians, the only one i can see as worth taking though is the bear thing from comp war.
There is AN INCREDIBLY LARGE number of PrCs out there, and what sort of barbarian you see your character as will determine that.
I disagree. Frenzied beserker may make your character powerful, but your fellow players may hate you for it. If you ever take even 1 damage, you go into a berserk rage and essentially become an NPC who attacks friend and foe alike. Not good.
I can't recommend any particular prestige class. Straight barbarian is pretty good as a pure warrior.
It's not so bad with a Friendly Berzerker build.
Although a FB isn't hard to kill as many people think...a smart DM who wants to deal with a FB can simply use called shot to chop off the FBs arm/leg/whatever...then he can't move or swing his weapon or whatever. He then proceeds to die when his frenzy ends, and he can only use a frenzy once an encounter.
Just an observation though, FBs are crazy powerful, but make sure you have that iron heart surge and your FB is ready to go
That takes the game in an ugly direction, friend.
Also, called shots are a houserule. Not everybody uses them.
As far as Barbarian progression goes, it's one of the few classes that is great from start to finish. You can always multiclass a little bit. Take a couple levels of fighter or anything else really. It's all about where you want to go with this character. Barbarians are a great platform for any combat build. Huge hitpoints and full BAB. You're set for anything you feel like.
-Deepwarden is cool (friend played one w/ Brb lvls). AC is rooted in Con which is a bit broken, nevertheless, when you rage, AC drops, but Con goes up...leaving AC unchanged. Made accounting alot easier. The free Sending (Sp)/will though got a little crazy making him an incredible scout.
If you take a few levels of warblade, you can get Iron Heart Surge, which will immediately remove your frenzy whenever you want. SO that won't be a problem.
No, it won't. "During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability." Initiating Iron Heart Surge isn't an attack and, as a standard action, interferes with the character's capacity to attack.
Although a FB isn't hard to kill as many people think...a smart DM who wants to deal with a FB can simply use called shot to chop off the FBs arm/leg/whatever...then he can't move or swing his weapon or whatever. He then proceeds to die when his frenzy ends, and he can only use a frenzy once an encounter.
Of course, called shots and severed limbs aren't supported under the official rules. So, just like any character, a frenzied berserker is easy to kill if the DM creates house rules specifically designed to kill him.
You wouldn't be able to iron heart surge away frenzy. You wouldn't be able to use a maneuver. At least not by RAI. It's kinda sketchy flavor-wise too. How is it that you can't stop yourself from killing your friends, but you can think to use an ability that requires concentration and skill and use THAT to keep yourself from killing your friends.
I agree that you can't IHS away the frenzy, but for a different reason (see above). I can't think of a reason that a Frenzied Berserker couldn't use a maneuver like Mountain Hammer or Claw at the Moon. Tome of Battle explicitly states that maneuvers do not require concentration (p. 39). You still wouldn't be able to use maneuvers that require Dexterity-, Intelligence-, or Charisma-based skill checks other than Intimidate (if there are any), require Concentration checks (like Sapphire Nightmare Blade), or interfere with the ability to attack (like Shadow Jaunt).
You people aren't helping. This guy is new and FBs are only good when your party is leetsauce and even then only when the party is built around you being an FB. This guy needs real ideas. Not fixes for a class that is meant to be a spotlight hog and, as far as I'm concerned, more for DM use as an NPC or enemy.
Sure, that's one way to play an FB. Except, how is a level 3 Barbarian going to get his Will Save up to 18?!?! His wisdom score has already been decided and this guy probably trashed it cause it doesn't seem useful to a barbarian. Dude, Sunic, we aren't working on 20 lvl builds here. The guy is level 3, thinking about what to prestige into. He still has another level or 2 before anything good even becomes available. What book is Pride domain even from?!
You people aren't helping. This guy is new and FBs are only good when your party is leetsauce and even then only when the party is built around you being an FB. This guy needs real ideas. Not fixes for a class that is meant to be a spotlight hog and, as far as I'm concerned, more for DM use as an NPC or enemy.
He doesn't. He also doesn't need to as the soonest he could enter is 8. If he trashed it that's his error in making his melee guy a liability to the party. FB or no FB, crap will save = bad bad bad.
No need for 20 level builds here, just a little foresight.
Pride = Spell Compendium.
Also, called shots are a houserule. Not everybody uses them.
Yes I know this. But I still think that such rules should be employed. I mean a fireball will burn trees...it will also set on fire anything else that is flammable. A strong wind will can blow smaller objects away. There's still a lot of reality in D&D. There should be no reason why called shots should not be possible regardless whether the DM allows it or not. Called shot should be in the standard D&D rules really
Of course I know they're not, it's just an observation. But you are right in the end they are a house rule.
No, it won't. "During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability." Initiating Iron Heart Surge isn't an attack and, as a standard action, interferes with the character's capacity to attack.
Ooops, I forgot that. My bad.
Of course, called shots and severed limbs aren't supported under the official rules. So, just like any character, a frenzied berserker is easy to kill if the DM creates house rules specifically designed to kill him.
I really doubt called shots were designed specifically to deal with FBs :P And I also doubt a DM would only allow called shots because FBs are present in his campaign. Called shots are an option for everyone and against everyone, I don't think people would incorporate called shots just because of FBS
Casters do have spell versions of called shots though...hold person, color spray, grease, other crowd control and battlefield control spells - there are tons and tons of those. I mean heck, if you're held, or asleep or stunned etc, you might just as well be deprived of your legs/arms...
Thats why people told you that straight barbarian is the way to go. Its extremely easy and i would also recommend it.
Once you have a stronger grasp of the game, come back and ask again. Or you might even find that you no longer need to ask because you already know what you want.
Yes that's true. I do feel that melee characters are deprived of options if there aren't called shot rules because it allows melee characters to deal with foes more effectively.
I think there may be translation errors between English and... I dunno what the native language of Croatia is.
Suffice it to say you are entirely incorrect and have misunderstood severely. Called shots in the game = everyone gets gimped, but melees (as in YOUR CHARACTER) get gimped more. Therefore, you should run away at * 4 speed from any game they are employed as it means the DM is just there to
with your character and powertrip on you.It may sound fun if you can get to break the arm of the enemy troll. But what happens when he does the same to you? Imagine that over the course of the 13.33 encounters it takes for you to gain a lv, an average of 1 enemy/encounter makes a successful called shot on you. I don't think you even have that many parts on your body for them to make all those called shots. How is your fighter going to play with so many broken limbs?:P
The logic is similar to that of sunder. It sounds tactically sound to sunder the giant's sword to negate his effectiveness in combat, but it sure sucks when the tables are turned and your own weapon is successfully sundered. What would it be like if your weapon is sundered at least once every other battle. I don't think you even have that many weapons to cycle through. Things get worse at higher lvs, where the repair costs get prohibitively expensive fast.
It just does not work in dnd.
overfiend_87, you're new
Thats why people told you that straight barbarian is the way to go. Its extremely easy and i would also recommend it.
Once you have a stronger grasp of the game, come back and ask again. Or you might even find that you no longer need to ask because you already know what you want.
yeah I guessed that when getting confused. Anyway I just wanted to ask to see what classes there were to choose from, but I would feel better not killing nor attacking anyone in my party when frenzying.
I would personally vote for runescarred berserker from Unapproachable east, but if that is not available, barb20 is fairly viable. To the best of my knowledge, there aren't many barb prcs, much less good ones, and quite a few require a fair bit of extensive character planning beforehand to maximize their effectiveness.
Consider if your DM may allow you to retroactively take a bloodline or splash 2 lvs of fighter for the bonus feats. I am personally not very impressed by the dwarf paragon class, but if you want an extra +2con and saves...
If you meet the requirements, 2 lvs of deepwarden gives you your con mod to AC instead of dex, though there is some ambiguity as to whether it is capped by dex.
Races of faerun has the dwarven battlerager prc, not too bad.
The problem with called shots is that you can use them once at most against any 1 foe (because most foes won't live past 5 rounds anyways), but you will be facing multiple encounters, and will thus be subject to multiple called shots.
It may sound fun if you can get to break the arm of the enemy troll. But what happens when he does the same to you? Imagine that over the course of the 13.33 encounters it takes for you to gain a lv, an average of 1 enemy/encounter makes a successful called shot on you. I don't think you even have that many parts on your body for them to make all those called shots. How is your fighter going to play with so many broken limbs?:P
The logic is similar to that of sunder. It sounds tactically sound to sunder the giant's sword to negate his effectiveness in combat, but it sure sucks when the tables are turned and your own weapon is successfully sundered. What would it be like if your weapon is sundered at least once every other battle. I don't think you even have that many weapons to cycle through. Things get worse at higher lvs, where the repair costs get prohibitively expensive fast.
It just does not work in dnd.
While true, you forgot to add that since you will most likely win any encounter, any gear your opponents use is soon gear you can use. If you break it, that is effectively the same as destroying your own treasure. And of course if you lose, well they kill you and take your stuff. :P
Would Righteous Wrath apply to frenzy?
Yes.
I guess you're right I wouldn't like it, no one would. It's an interesting option for me though
While true, you forgot to add that since you will most likely win any encounter, any gear your opponents use is soon gear you can use. If you break it, that is effectively the same as destroying your own treasure. And of course if you lose, well they kill you and take your stuff. :P
True that. What are the odds that the opponent will use his mundane greatsword over that +1 flaming greatsword in the dustbin?;)
If you use MM monsters as printed, they use mostly non-magical gear, even at higher lvs, so sundering them is not really a big deal, unless you are a very meticulous looter who stashes every single item you find into your bag of holding.
True that. What are the odds that the opponent will use his mundane greatsword over that +1 flaming greatsword in the dustbin?;)
If you use MM monsters as printed, they use mostly non-magical gear, even at higher lvs, so sundering them is not really a big deal, unless you are a very meticulous looter who stashes every single item you find into your bag of holding.
In the specific example of a giant, you face something naturally resistant to such a tactic who also has low AC, and can therefore be mauled easily with Power Attack. Seeing as any character who can feasibly consider breaking their own treasure can also consider Power Attack... Also, not so loot dependent.
The more loot dependent creatures are humanoids, who due to Small or Medium size are not so resistant to it... but are almost always equipped with good items (triple standard wealth) or are no threat whatsoever. Therefore you either beat them down and take their nice stuff, or beat them down very easily and don't get such nice stuff. Either way, breaking their stuff is a waste of time at best.
And the nicest thing that can be said about Improved Sunder is that it is a trap.
Then just take Righteous Wrath and would never have to worry about harming allies in a frenzy, just keep your exalted status.
Hmm, hard to play an exalted character, especially when you're new and chose to play a barbarian...
-Berserker can be fun (it's just barbarian on steroids is all), but you need to strategize carefully and have contingency plans for your crew.
I really like this one. I generally, if I take it, will just take the 1st level or so, maybe 2. The extra +10 feet movement is actually pretty helpful. The Rogue BAB? That I will never understand, though.
Also, Fighter is a good choice. Extra feats let you do more stuff in battle, obviously.
And the nicest thing that can be said about Improved Sunder is that it is a trap.
Isn't the nicest thing about improved sunder is that it allows you to get combat brute?
I really like this one. I generally, if I take it, will just take the 1st level or so, maybe 2. The extra +10 feet movement is actually pretty helpful. The Rogue BAB? That I will never understand, though.
Also, Fighter is a good choice. Extra feats let you do more stuff in battle, obviously.
What class are you talking about? What book?
I'm new to the game and so far through the game I have reached level 3 on my Dwarven Barbarian. A friend of mine suggested choosing a prestige class to aim for, but I have no idea of what to choose if anything at all. I'm also been told that a pure barbarian can be a good choice by the members of my D&D group.
So bottom line, would I be better as a pure barbarian or if I should choose a class and if so then what one?
Depends on what you like to play and what suits your character.
Possible choices for a Barbarian is Bear Warrior, Frost Rager and I am partial to Primordial. Primordial/Shapeshifter/Warshaper gives you a lot of good options. Problem is, it eats up a lot of your feats.
Barbarian 20 is perfectly fine.
Nothing like the FB abuses, but still fun if you can keep your great axe during the wilshape.
See ya.
Isn't the nicest thing about improved sunder is that it allows you to get combat brute?
Not really.
Let's see...
Advancing blows means bull rushing first, which either means you do nothing really, or a nice dungeoncrasher set up (that will likely just kill whatever you charged).
Sundering cleave... or you could just smack them yourself directly, not break your own treasure, and not have an additional chance to fail (you miss the weapon or shield, you don't do enough damage to break it...) on top of that.
Momentum swing also requires your initial charge fail to kill the target, which rather defeats the point in being a charger.
Sounds like a trap to me.
What feats do you currently have?
I would personally vote for runescarred berserker from Unapproachable east, but if that is not available, barb20 is fairly viable. To the best of my knowledge, there aren't many barb prcs, much less good ones, and quite a few require a fair bit of extensive character planning beforehand to maximize their effectiveness.
Consider if your DM may allow you to retroactively take a bloodline or splash 2 lvs of fighter for the bonus feats. I am personally not very impressed by the dwarf paragon class, but if you want an extra +2con and saves...
If you meet the requirements, 2 lvs of deepwarden gives you your con mod to AC instead of dex, though there is some ambiguity as to whether it is capped by dex.
Races of faerun has the dwarven battlerager prc, not too bad.
Feats I currently have are:
Weapon focus: axe
and
Power Attack
I chose power attack since I want to get cleve which would be very useful against the goblins that me and the team are having problems with atm in our campaign. I get a +1 against goblinoids so that helps out.
Frenzied berserker in complete warrior is the prestige for you my smashy friend. Its on page 34 of that book
No! No-no-no! Bad chibi! BAD! NO!! No encouraging people to play this class. EVER.
I second Serow's question: what do you want to do? The Runescared Berserker, Frenzied Bers, and quite a few other Prcs (I'm partial to Primeval -harsher requirements than Bear warrior, but also more rewards) can be great if you are doing the right thing. You can even do a barbarian-dervish with a Greataxe, if you want :D
All I really want, since on some nights I'm the only mellee, I need good hitpoints, save throws and basically be a pure and powerful berserker. I want to also have great mellee skils, however I want him to be controllable.
Momentum swing also requires your initial charge fail to kill the target, which rather defeats the point in being a charger.
Sounds like a trap to me.
Ah, but the feat says nothing about it working only on the target you're charging. You could charge opponent A, kill him, and then charge opponent B next round and Momentum Swing would still activate.
I do agree with you on the other two parts though.
All I really want, since on some nights I'm the only mellee, I need good hitpoints, save throws and basically be a pure and powerful berserker. I want to also have great mellee skils, however I want him to be controllable.
Then go full barbarian. Any prestige you pick will probably just make you trade hp and damage reduction for other abilities. What you should start thinking about is feats. Power Attack is a must and you should think about getting Shock Trooper from Complete Warrior.
Then go full barbarian. Any prestige you pick will probably just make you trade hp and damage reduction for other abilities. What you should start thinking about is feats. Power Attack is a must and you should think about getting Shock Trooper from Complete Warrior.
shock trooper and complete warrior I can't find in the players handbook ver3.5. Endurence looks good though due to diehard and I already have power attack so I can get cleve.
shock trooper and complete warrior I can't find in the players handbook ver3.5. Endurence looks good though due to diehard and I already have power attack so I can get cleve.
Complete Warrior is the book that Shock Trooper is in. Do you only have access to the Core three (PHB, MM, and DMG)?
Complete Warrior is the book that Shock Trooper is in. Do you only have access to the Core three (PHB, MM, and DMG)?
yeah I only have the three main books. neither me nor the DM had that book. Though the feats in the core books are cool. I certainly like Diehard and I have power attack since I'm after Cleve as that would be amazing.
In which case, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Initiative and Iron Will are your essentials. Anything else... well it's core only, you don't have a lot of choice.
http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/prestige_classes_occult_slayer.htm
yeah I only have the three main books. neither me nor the DM had that book. Though the feats in the core books are cool. I certainly like Diehard and I have power attack since I'm after Cleve as that would be amazing.
Power Attack is good. Diehard, unfortunately, gets less and less useful as you level. And the prerequisite Endurance is suck. However, sounds like Barbarian 20 is best for what you want.
Is all my hard work for nothing?
Consolidated Barbarian Handbook
Here maybe you can use this for Ideas...
One prestige class that is quite good for a barbarian is the Occult slayer. It basically makes your barbarian very effective against spellcasters which is usually a barbarian's main weakness. I've been playing this character for a while now and i would definitely recommend it. I don't remember what book its from but here's a link with the description and the table etc.
http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/prestige_classes_occult_slayer.htm
Sounds good and great against magic users, but it doesn't appeal to me, nore would it make any sense for my character to choose it either.
Core-only barbarian...
In which case, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Initiative and Iron Will are your essentials. Anything else... well it's core only, you don't have a lot of choice.
yeah I already have Power Attack in hope to get Cleave, though Improved Initiative and Iron will sound very useful.
Frankly I'm insulted.
Is all my hard work for nothing?
Consolidated Barbarian Handbook
Here maybe you can use this for Ideas...
sound interesting to have a look at later on. And sorry I never saw that thread, though i see it's very good I choose a dwarf to be a barbarian.
Nothing wrong with Barbarian. It's a strong class and it doesn't require prerequisites, hoop-jumping, or pigeon-holing your character into a particular role. (I loved prestige classes when they were new, but as they say, 'the bloom is off the rose'... they were a lot cooler when they weren't ubiquitious.)
Frenzied Berserker is the most obvious (not necessarily "best") barbarian prestige class choice; it enhances the barbarian in both concept and game mechanics, while requiring absolutely no "fluff" or flavor-text on the part of the player or character's background. The Runescarred Berserker is a bit sub-optimal but allows for a slightly more versatile barbarian. Other than that, Legendary Dreadnought (Epic Levels Handbook). Dervish isn't as great, because dervish dance and rage specifically don't stack; you'd need about 26 character levels to use both in the same encounter because neither can be used while fatigued (at least in my opinion; not sure if there's any actual rules on this).
Of course, I don't think inside the 20 level box. My last "barbarian" had Fighter, Weapon Master (Sword and Fist), and Legendary Dreadnought levels.
Calm Emotions
This spell calms agitated creatures. You have no control over the affected creatures, but calm emotions can stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling.
I'm unsure if it was a houserule or not but my groups interpretation of this spell is that it stops Barbarians in their tracks. Since Rage and Frenzy go hand in hand, why can't a player take his character into Frenzied Beserker and have the party Cleric have this on standby just in case the FB becomes a threat? This seems to be the primary concern about the PrC that most parties dislike, after all.
It seems like a wonderful, simple and effective way to take advantage of the Barbarian/Frenzied Beserker's low willpower.
EDIT: Gah... apologies for thread necromancy - I was looking for information on the FB and posted without checking the dates.