Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 orenthes Apr 05, 2009 20:06:54	Hey there, I've compiled a little list of tips for people who are new to a 4E classes, or new to 4E, so, without further ado, here is my list. Basic Tips Defenders: 1. Remember your importance in any battle. When the healing/inspiring words run short, you’re top priority, no exceptions. Note, this is assuming that everyone is at full health; obviously the warlock should get a healing session first if, for whatever arbitrary reason, he’s more hurt than you are. 2. If you abandon the front line, abandon the front line for a good reason, if you’re going to do it, it better mean that the orc warrior went past you and started roughing up the wizard with his polearm. Help out, but make sure that the party wouldn’t be better served by you holding position. 3. Don’t go after the ranged guys unless absolutely necessary. Your job is keeping people busy, being a target, and keeping the biggest, baddest enemies away from squishy wizards. Let the ranger and the warlock handle the dudes with crossbows; you’re on the dude with the giant axe. 4. You’re not the party face, just because you can take five consecutive hits and still be standing does not make you this. A party face is to be charismatic; a paladin may be able to take exception. 5. You have, at best, taken a minor in the Striker class; a fighter with the best weapons in the game still does a fraction of the damage done by a rogue. Do not cripple your main role to be something you are not meant to be, same goes for fighters aspiring to the ways of the wizard. 6. You’re first priority for damage-dealing magical weapons, just because the barbarian wants that magic axe doesn’t mean he should have it before you. His job is doing damage, yours is holding the line, and you could use the damage boost. You are also top priority for the best armor, though not many classes other than defenders get access to the top-of-the-line armor you do. Strikers 1. Stay with the defenders if possible, your high-damage attacks are going to make you very unpopular with enemies; let them go to the fighter instead, it’s his specialty. 2. Lend your damage to those in need, if someone’s getting pounded then go help them out, once you get their focus of that enemy, they can go back to focusing on all of the enemies rather than just one. 3. Get used to going it alone, the healing should always go to a wounded tank before a wounded striker. The striker has two best friends: his weapon(s) and his healing potions; when the going gets tough, the cleric may have to ignore you in favor of the defender. 4. The ability to fell an enemy with one good roll is useless if you’re dead; learn the value of a tactical retreat. 5. If you want a magical weapon, make sure the tank doesn’t need it; you have no problem with damage-dealing, tanks do a fraction of your damage, they could use a little boost. 6. You are a scout, the dragonborn fighter will stomp down those stairs like an elephant, and the wizard will trip on his robes; strikers were made for stealth, take advantage of your skills. Leaders 1. There are only so many health potions, you are the designated healer of your group; thus you are tied with the tank for being the top priority for healing, if you go down, there can be no healing, but if the tank goes down this battle will be a lot tougher. 2. Pay attention, the price of being the savior of the entire party is eternal vigilance. Most classes can get away with not paying attention to other party members, not you; you have to make sure that nobody is getting pounded too hard and lay down some heals if that’s happening. 3. Don’t be too stingy with your healing/inspiring words, the one thing worse than a healer who gives out healing like candy is one who never gives healing at all. Be prudent but generous with your healing. 4. Take care in who you heal, the injured wizard is going to be fine if he stays at range, an injured tank is definitely a concern. 5. You are a leader in a different way, you buff and heal your allies, you are not leading the charge; you’ll get cut down in no time (battle clerics are a small exception). A leader can fight, but it is not his/her first priority when people are getting wounded. 6. (Unless you’re a battle cleric) keep back from the action, you’ll live longer. Controllers 1. You deal damage on par with strikers; you just do a little less on a larger scale. You are otherwise debuffing, debilitating, or destroying enemies; large numbers are your specialty. Stay at range, otherwise your damage-dealing will make you a target for enemy attacks. 2. Minions come first for your attacks! They don’t seem like much if they go down in one hit; but get a gaggle of them on a defender and they can do some serious damage, and also distract from the more important enemies, keep their numbers down with area attacks and nasty spells. AoE spells are minion sweepers, exploit them. 3. Don’t treat your teammates like dirt, this applies to everyone but especially to controllers, without the “meat shield” defender you would be open to some serious punishment, and without the “glass cannon” striker the enemies would be lasting forever, and without the “cheerleader” leader you won’t get healing. 4. Only go for the bare minimum in melee; a controller doesn’t work the melee angle (yet), don’t burn a feat to get weapon proficiency, feats are hard to come by and even humans have a million things to consider before a long sword. The controller is a range-oriented class; the rare AoOs you will make are not worth the cost of a feat that could have been spent improving your main skills. 5. You are ranged; you have an immensely versatile selection of enemies to attack during an encounter, help out your teammates if they need it, and help fight the guys who are attacking the tank. But your first priority is to ranged attackers, and those who are out of range. 6. Train yourself in the INT skills; controllers are usually the only ones with INT as a main stat, so you’ll need to be the guy who knows history when the time comes.
#2 daidojitaidoru Apr 05, 2009 20:39:50	Hm, a little class dependent but not bad... I'm going to stick to more generic stuff. 1 - Use your action points. You get one every 2 encounters. If an action point can save you a HS you're ahead of the game. 2 - Use your items. Sure they aren't as shiny as 3rd ED items, but most are good stuff. Turning on regen at the start of a fight means you might get that much further into the dungeon. 3 - A good scout stays close to his party. You should try to never be more then one move action away from covering fire. If you aren't the scout you should always have a plan to help the scout escape. You can't solo the dungeon and the monsters most likely to hear you are most likely to be higher level. Dead men don't tell tales, at least not until after your buddies find your body at which point your info probably won't help. 4 - Build for synergy. Your 24 Int Wizard would notice if the Fighter loves Tide of Iron. And that 24 Int would suggest grabbing say, Wall of Fire or some other effect that the Fighter could shove people into. Now even smart people can be bloody minded, but it's always a good idea to know your allies techs and try to work with them. 5 - Keep the Leader informed. The Leader may not be the party leader, but it helps to tell the guy passing out buffs and heals when you're down HP or rearing up for an uber attack. It's best to keep everyone informed, but the Leader is far more effective when he can see the battlefields changes. 6 - Pick someone and kill him. Combined fire isn't just a Ranger power, it a damn good idea. This is mostly for strikers, because defenders controllers and leaders almost have to split up and change targets to do their job. But once you've got a target do your best to kill them.
#3 aedan_uaine Apr 05, 2009 21:07:44	A note about what was said on controllers: Druids can melee, but they need to keep a few things in mind: 1. where the enemies attention is. If they are on the defender you're probably good to go 2.If you go in without other melee support, make sure they aren't likely to be beating you down by virtue of status effects and/or trick movement. 3.If you're going in and plan on getting hit (I've done this, there are appropriate times for it, especially if you have no defender or they go down), make sure you know what you're going to get thrown at you and make sure you can handle it. And make sure you can get yourself out of there once you've done what you were going for. (Claws of retribution, AoOs w/grasping claw, next turn move away, more AoOs with grasping claw for slows, wildshape and blast with an area attack. That was so much fun. I took some hits but I pretty much made sure they weren't remotely going to be bothering me, or anyone else after that for a bit). - On a more general note for everyone: 1.Know your weaknesses and how to cover them. 2.Know your strengths and how to employ them. 3.Don't forget about your options. Stuff like grabs, charges, bullrushes, etc.
#4 mkill Apr 05, 2009 22:36:55	Defenders: 1. Remember your importance in any battle. When the healing/inspiring words run short, you’re top priority, no exceptions. A+ Defenders have high defenses and don't burn through healing surges. They will also have powers that allow them to get temp hp or self-heal. And they carry healing potions as backup. If you are the main receiver of healing in the party, you're not doing it right. 2. If you abandon the front line, abandon the front line for a good reason. High-level defenders have crowd control powers that allow them to surround themselves with enemies and hit them all. Not every battle calls for a frontline, it is only one of several options. Assault Swordmages are not a frontliners at all, only play one if you understand that. 3. Don’t go after the ranged guys unless absolutely necessary. Not necessarily: If the ranged guy is a leader, an elite or solo, it is a viable option to go after it and force the enemy frontliners to turn around and get at you too. 4. You’re not the party face, just because you can take five consecutive hits and still be standing does not make you this. A party face is to be charismatic; a paladin may be able to take exception. This completely depends on class and has nothing to do with the combat role. 5. You have, at best, taken a minor in the Striker class; a fighter with the best weapons in the game still does a fraction of the damage done by a rogue. Defenders, especially fighters, can be built for high damage. This is a viable tactic: A dead enemy can't attack. A better advice is the following: Use 40% of your ressources for offense, 40% for defense, and 20% for mobility, healing, and other stuff. 6. You’re first priority for damage-dealing magical weapons, just because the barbarian wants that magic axe doesn’t mean he should have it before you. That's a direct contradiction to 5. Make up your mind. Strikers 1. Stay with the defenders if possible, your high-damage attacks are going to make you very unpopular with enemies; let them go to the fighter instead, it’s his specialty. Depends on class. True for rangers and rogues. Barbarians are tough enough to solo an opponent from my experience. Bow rangers, sorcs and warlocks should always have at least 7 squares between themselves and any enemy. 2. Lend your damage to those in need, if someone’s getting pounded then go help them out, once you get their focus of that enemy, they can go back to focusing on all of the enemies rather than just one. Depends. Easy to do for a rogue, complete bogus for an avenger, everyone else in between. Strikers should take down low defense, low hp, high damage targets, leaders and controllers first, to quickly bring down enemy numbers (fewer enemies -> less flanking for them + less attacks per round) You're not the cavalry to get people out of trouble - that's the defender's job. 3. Get used to going it alone, the healing should always go to a wounded tank before a wounded striker. I disagree (and I usually play defenders). A defender can usually hang on for a few rounds, even if low on hp. A striker is down very fast, and if he's down, party offensive capabilities hit bottom. As a striker, stay mobile so critters can't attack you (without taking an OA from the defender + mark punishment). But if you're hit, get healed ASAP. 4. The ability to fell an enemy with one good roll is useless if you’re dead; learn the value of a tactical retreat. Agreed. (You're contradicting your point 3 again.) 5. If you want a magical weapon, make sure the tank doesn’t need it; Disagree. Usually, characters will be specialized on weapon / implement types so I wonder how this can even come up. 6. strikers were made for stealth, take advantage of your skills. Of course. Leaders 1. There are only so many health potions, you are the designated healer of your group; thus you are tied with the tank for being the top priority for healing, if you go down, there can be no healing, but if the tank goes down this battle will be a lot tougher. Healing is not your main priority. Boost party defenses, so you have to heal less. Also, health potions are cheap, make sure everyone is well-stocked. 2. Pay attention, the price of being the savior of the entire party is eternal vigilance. Most classes can get away with not paying attention to other party members, not you; you have to make sure that nobody is getting pounded too hard and lay down some heals if that’s happening. Again, you're not a healer, you're a LEADER. If someone gets pounded, move the striker in, provide flanks, give people boosts to attack and defense etc. etc. 3. Don’t be too stingy with your healing/inspiring words Depends. Manage your ressources wisely. 4. Take care in who you heal, the injured wizard is going to be fine if he stays at range, an injured tank is definitely a concern. You're still talking about healing... when do we talk battle tactics? 5. You are a leader in a different way, you buff and heal your allies, you are not leading the charge; you’ll get cut down in no time (battle clerics are a small exception). A leader can fight, but it is not his/her first priority when people are getting wounded. Again, this depends on class. Warlords and many clerics can survive in melee very well, and even bards if you build them that way. Why not draw a few attacks so the defender can use his mark? I'm not saying each leader should buy plate proficiency and toughness, but if you want to, do it. Also, you need to attack to use your powers, so make your your attack bonus is high and doing good damage never hurt anyone. 6. (Unless you’re a battle cleric) keep back from the action, you’ll live longer. You're repeating 5... and I disagree again. Controllers 1. You deal damage on par with strikers; you just do a little less on a larger scale. You are otherwise debuffing, debilitating, or destroying enemies; large numbers are your specialty. Stay at range, otherwise your damage-dealing will make you a target for enemy attacks. You're talking wizards and invokers here, wildshaped druids are built for melee! 2. Minions come first for your attacks! Yes. 3. Don’t treat your teammates like dirt... That goes for every character, regardless of role. 4. Only go for the bare minimum in melee; Again, totally class dependend. I agree that there is no melee wizard build that is not crap, but druids have shown that melee controller is possible. 5. You are ranged; you have an immensely versatile selection of enemies to attack during an encounter, help out your teammates if they need it, and help fight the guys who are attacking the tank. But your first priority is to ranged attackers, and those who are out of range. Not necessarily. This is true for ranged strikers, controllers have a different shtick: Crowd control. Throw your powers into the thick of things, try to disperse enemy lines, disable multiple enemies at once ... 6. Train yourself in the INT skills; controllers are usually the only ones with INT as a main stat, so you’ll need to be the guy who knows history when the time comes. How does this apply to Invokers and Druids? How does this not apply to Swordmages (defender)? You're mixing up class and role (again... see defender 4.)
#5 sjmcc13 Apr 05, 2009 22:47:12	I disagree with the priorities for magic weapons, the Strikers want to hit more often, since they do more damage per hit, and magic weapons help with that. Defenders should be preferenced for defensive items, since they take more attacks. My observations, from running a game where only 2 players have read the combat chapter. Each comes from something I have experienced that prevents me from sending any "hard" encounters at my PCs for fear of a TPK. 1) read the combat chapter, and know your options. 2) know what you powers do. 3) be mindful of your position and the positions of your allies and enemies. 4) don't be afraid to run/retreat