Being forced to mark and ally - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Being forced to mark and ally

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
chiptastic
Jun 29, 2013 18:34:54 During our session today, this came up. My monk used Drunken Monkey on an enemy. This caused the targeted enemy to attack one of its allies with a basic attack. As part of the enemies attack, the target gets marked. Which led to a different enemy being marked by one of its allies.

Is this possible?

RAW seems like so, but I would argue that RAI wouldn't. Marking requires voluntary interaction, unless it's magical/supernatural in nature.

Here's a for instance....

A fighter's mark means harassment and punishment for not paying attention.

I can't imagine a scenario where an ally would mark another ally.
#2
Neutronium_Dragon
Jun 29, 2013 18:39:58 The target would be marked unless the attack specifies "may mark the target" or something equivalent, although the marking creature wouldn't have to use any triggered effects that rely on having a target marked.

Considering that the creature is being made to attack in a fashion that IS distracting, interfering, etc, it's thematically consistent as well.
#3
thespaceinvader
Jun 29, 2013 18:41:33 Yes, it is possible.

COnsider the mark more as a momentary distraction and intimidation - allies can intimidate each other just like they can enemies. The PUNISHMENT for not paying attention is usually a separate, and entirely cvoluntary, action, if it exists at all. Many monsters which mark don't have mark punishments.
#4
Centauri
Jun 29, 2013 19:26:51
RAW seems like so, but I would argue that RAI wouldn't.

It all comes down to how you and your group agree to play. Unless you take this to a rules forum.

Marking requires voluntary interaction, unless it's magical/supernatural in nature.

I don't know why you would assume that.

Here's a for instance....

A fighter's mark means harassment and punishment for not paying attention.

There's no fixed definition of what a fighter's mark means. Or any other mark for that matter. My fighter uses tiny cantrips and words of power that he learned from the masters at his monastery to interfere with his enemies and keep them confused. No, he's not multiclassed.

My warden controls the tempo of the battlefield by belting out or humming a march he learned while serving in the army. Enemies that don't move or act with that tempo are subject to his mark and its effects.

I can't imagine a scenario where an ally would mark another ally.

You don't have to imagine it. Imagining it is just icing.

#5
ghost007
Jun 29, 2013 20:35:33 Mark supercedes other marks, and works on non sentient creatures as well. Dont require target of mark to agree to it. It just is. An ally marking another ally is no longer that ally, per say. No diff then an ally attacking an ally.
#6
ghost007
Jun 29, 2013 20:35:34 Mark supercedes other marks, and works on non sentient creatures as well. Dont require target of mark to agree to it. It just is. An ally marking another ally is no longer that ally, per say. No diff then an ally attacking an ally.
#7
RedSiegfried
Jun 29, 2013 22:54:19 Causing a creature to mark or attack an ally does not change the creature's allies and enemies. Even being Dominated doesn't change who the dominated creature's allies and enemies are.

But other than that, yeah, you're right, Ghost007.
#8
merb101
Jul 01, 2013 8:01:32 Just remember, a martial class "mark" is really the target being forced to deal with one person. It can be anything from an aggressive in-your-face fighting style, a roar, a taunt, anything that forces the person's attention to one opponent. That's why marks don't stack, because you can't have two people going "hey, over here!" "no, over here!" with a benefit. It's focusing your attention on one person, so if you decide to go after someone else you either take a penalty or you provoke an opportunity attack.

So if an attack include "the target is marked," it is really flavor as to how that mark occurs, and there is nothing magical or supernatural about it (unless everyone chooses to make its such).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chiptastic Jun 29, 2013 18:34:54	During our session today, this came up. My monk used Drunken Monkey on an enemy. This caused the targeted enemy to attack one of its allies with a basic attack. As part of the enemies attack, the target gets marked. Which led to a different enemy being marked by one of its allies. Is this possible? RAW seems like so, but I would argue that RAI wouldn't. Marking requires voluntary interaction, unless it's magical/supernatural in nature. Here's a for instance.... A fighter's mark means harassment and punishment for not paying attention. I can't imagine a scenario where an ally would mark another ally.
#2 Neutronium_Dragon Jun 29, 2013 18:39:58	The target would be marked unless the attack specifies "may mark the target" or something equivalent, although the marking creature wouldn't have to use any triggered effects that rely on having a target marked. Considering that the creature is being made to attack in a fashion that IS distracting, interfering, etc, it's thematically consistent as well.
#3 thespaceinvader Jun 29, 2013 18:41:33	Yes, it is possible. COnsider the mark more as a momentary distraction and intimidation - allies can intimidate each other just like they can enemies. The PUNISHMENT for not paying attention is usually a separate, and entirely cvoluntary, action, if it exists at all. Many monsters which mark don't have mark punishments.
#4 Centauri Jun 29, 2013 19:26:51	RAW seems like so, but I would argue that RAI wouldn't. It all comes down to how you and your group agree to play. Unless you take this to a rules forum. Marking requires voluntary interaction, unless it's magical/supernatural in nature. I don't know why you would assume that. Here's a for instance.... A fighter's mark means harassment and punishment for not paying attention. There's no fixed definition of what a fighter's mark means. Or any other mark for that matter. My fighter uses tiny cantrips and words of power that he learned from the masters at his monastery to interfere with his enemies and keep them confused. No, he's not multiclassed. My warden controls the tempo of the battlefield by belting out or humming a march he learned while serving in the army. Enemies that don't move or act with that tempo are subject to his mark and its effects. I can't imagine a scenario where an ally would mark another ally. You don't have to imagine it. Imagining it is just icing.
#5 ghost007 Jun 29, 2013 20:35:33	Mark supercedes other marks, and works on non sentient creatures as well. Dont require target of mark to agree to it. It just is. An ally marking another ally is no longer that ally, per say. No diff then an ally attacking an ally.
#6 ghost007 Jun 29, 2013 20:35:34	Mark supercedes other marks, and works on non sentient creatures as well. Dont require target of mark to agree to it. It just is. An ally marking another ally is no longer that ally, per say. No diff then an ally attacking an ally.
#7 RedSiegfried Jun 29, 2013 22:54:19	Causing a creature to mark or attack an ally does not change the creature's allies and enemies. Even being Dominated doesn't change who the dominated creature's allies and enemies are. But other than that, yeah, you're right, Ghost007.
#8 merb101 Jul 01, 2013 8:01:32	Just remember, a martial class "mark" is really the target being forced to deal with one person. It can be anything from an aggressive in-your-face fighting style, a roar, a taunt, anything that forces the person's attention to one opponent. That's why marks don't stack, because you can't have two people going "hey, over here!" "no, over here!" with a benefit. It's focusing your attention on one person, so if you decide to go after someone else you either take a penalty or you provoke an opportunity attack. So if an attack include "the target is marked," it is really flavor as to how that mark occurs, and there is nothing magical or supernatural about it (unless everyone chooses to make its such).