I've been playing D&D 3.x for almost 3 years now (not alot but I've been almost
weekly!)
I'm 16
I got the books myself but I was origanlly told about (and enthralled by storys of) dungeons and dragons from a friend (lets call him gandalf) in school and boyscouts
gandalf is 18 next month
I've DMed over 4 diffrent campaigns and done a prity good job all around. All with deep storylines and the right mix of combat and problem solveing
Gandalf has played (player only) D&D for since he was 8 and he started with his older brother whom I dont realy know (lets call him Boromir) and his father (lets call him Aragorn)
I am trying my hand a as a PC for the first time in a long while in gandalfs first shot at DMing along with Aragorn Boromir and gimlin (gandalfs cousin never played D&D befor) we are on second level and our third session (this is 3.0e)
I decided to play a knight (a homebrew fighter non-divine palidin) I got dibs on this character long before the first session and was planing on playing a halfing wizard as well (gandalf allows 2 PC's per player) when the first session is apon us and out of the blue Boromir shows up with characters, A paladin and a wizard dispite the fact that I had dibs on both those archtypes (homerule is no 2 of the same class) Boromir at this point convinces gandalf that I cant handle two PCs (although I've DMed over 4 diffrente NPCs each with its own agenda) and so I go with my knight who I go heavly into combat to makeshure that I can make him stand out.
All through the first session Boromir makes comments about EVERY choice I made from not min-maxing to my feat choice to the way I play my character and is consintly rollplaying his characters treating mine like an inferior ( If it was just that it wouldn't be that bad) and shooting down my every idea.
The second session gimlin comes in (he didn't creat a player in the begining) and wants to play to play. the group is cool with that but when chooseing a character Boromir nudges him towards fighter (my job in the group)
the other problem is skill use every time I want to use my skills or disarm someone (Ride instead of jump to get over that pit when mounted or crafteing a new wepon) Boromir Always trys to convince the DM that Its imposible and that I'm confused about the rules (wich I'm not) or that I dont understand the diffrence between 3.0 and 3.5. He is also always trying to thwart me whenever I try to rollplay other than straight out killing an enemy (twice he's killed a prisioner while I went to use the bathroom out of game)
Its geting to where I dont enjoy may character as much as I normaly would because of Boromir's constant attempts to make me feel stupid And dispite that I'm enjoying the campaign very much and I'm trying to support gandalfs first shot at DMing. I'm not shure how to handle this There is a point comeing up where I'm concidering martering my PC so that the others my make a shot at escape but I'd rather keep playing him dose anyone have any advice to deal with this sticky problem.
Sory about long post/spelling
My advice (beyond talking to the DM about this) is next time he says "That's impossible!" despite the rules saying otherwise, pull out the PHB and display his wrongness to him and the group. Enough times of you correcting him and everyone else will get the idea that you're no greenhorn, and give his whining less creedence. Also, you might want to give him the "You play your character, I'll play mine" line.
Tangent: 3.0? Really?
Also, next time a bathroom break comes up, tell the DM that any attempts on the prisoner's life will result in either your character stopping it or a straight-up combat to the death. Or just wait until after interrogation to go.
The way you describe him, he sounds like an ass. I would say take him aside and talk with him and the DM and see if you can work things out.
Since Orc_Wyvern decided to edit my post.
I then recieved an e-mail that could be taken as a Libel action. (An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media)
I am only going to ask the OP to pay some attention to spelling.
You need to sit in the chair, and when this happens, clear your throat really loud. Then, look at the Dad, Aragorn, and ask "Yeah, did you teach your son to be a tool on purpose, or did he just never grow up right?"
Weather the BS that will follow. Then ask the DM, "Why are you allowing your brother to railroad me out of here? This is total BS."
You might basically already be outnumbered, and have to bail. I think if you can make Joke # 1 happen, you might get the dad on your side.
Seems like.
Good luck.
Wait, did you say he was a pally as well? and that he offed a prisoner? He can't be doing that sort of thing.
Wait, did you say he was a pally as well? and that he offed a prisoner? He can't be doing that sort of thing.
Agreed. In fact, while you're whipping out your book to correct him about a skill challenge or some such, you should also read from the class section:
"A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate. "
Then hit him with the book. If you follow two out of my three suggestions, you will know for certain if your DM will side with you on the issue, then progress to step three.
Wait, did you say he was a pally as well? and that he offed a prisoner? He can't be doing that sort of thing.
Time to play Devils Advocate here.
Boromir, the player, may have had a prisoner killed. However there is no evidence that Boromirs Paladin was the character that did it..
(gandalf allows 2 PC's per player) when the first session is apon us and out of the blue Boromir shows up with characters, A paladin and a wizard
Emphasis added for clarification.
Not sure what to suggest, except maybe a plea to the DM and to "Aragorn."
Where did he mention anything about killing a prisoner?
Here...
The second session gimlin comes in (he didn't creat a player in the begining) and wants to play to play. the group is cool with that but when chooseing a character Boromir nudges him towards fighter (my job in the group)
the other problem is skill use every time I want to use my skills or disarm someone (Ride instead of jump to get over that pit when mounted or crafteing a new wepon) Boromir Always trys to convince the DM that Its imposible and that I'm confused about the rules (wich I'm not) or that I dont understand the diffrence between 3.0 and 3.5. He is also always trying to thwart me whenever I try to rollplay other than straight out killing an enemy (twice he's killed a prisioner while I went to use the bathroom out of game)
Tangent: 3.0? Really?
Yes, 3.0. Got a problem with that? Tough noogies. Deal.
If you want, you can point Boromir to my message and show him this:
-----------
You are being a jerk. Stop it, or no one will ever love you.
-----------
:D
Also, on a related note, we count bathroom breaks/getting a drink/snack as a minor action so people dont take them too often.
"Wait, there's another line...Oh, look at that! Not only are you wrong, the rules also say you're a dick."
I would talk to Gandalf about it, sternly. Tell him that your sick and tired of the way that his older brother is treating you, and that he has no right to make the claims about you that he does.
This is traditional bully ******** and should have stopped when he "graduated" elementary school. You even said that he was Gandalf's older brother, which at least makes him older than 18. This kind of crap has no place at the gaming table, as it sounds like he's trying to make it unbearable for you to play so that you quit. The only other piece of advice that I can give you is to stick with it and be vigilant.
It doesn't matter, though. He's still exhibiting bullying behaviour which you shouldn't have to put up with at a gaming table.
Also he wanted to look through EVERY single room in dungeon we were supposed to be doing a quike in-out sneak mission not only did this overway the session so that we didn't finish the module this session but also screwing up the mission so that our surivale chances are several decreased.
No, really.
I would say that maybe he's roleplaying his character to be OCD about being thorough and "OOG SMASH," but the attention seeking is going outside of game as well. It honestly sounds like he's threatened by your presence and is really trying to run you out. I've had a similar experience. The person made game so miserable, in and out of game, that I nearly up and left (which is what he wanted.) Then the DM found out what he was doing and promptly gave him the boot. Game time is meant to be fun time, not a time we're meant to dread because we're going to deal with people we know are going to do such and such. I'd seriously think about your situation and be prepared to make some hard choices. If playing is not fun anymore because of his attention seeking and bullying, it may be time to quit. But before you do, tell your DM that you're honestly thinking about quitting because of how you're being treated. Don't wait until next session to do this either, because it sounds like you've had enough.
Welcome to the real world - it's full of asses.
Don't think you can change him.
Talk to the DM (privately) and tell him that you are tired of his players being jerks and if he won't talk to him, you are leaving. Part of the DM's job is dealing with problem players.
And then, if it continues, leave and find a game with a group of people that aren't jackasses.
Alternately, you can try ignoring him. But as long as he can get a reaction from you he will keep at it.
But don't think you will ever actually change the other player. You can only change your reaction to the other player.
Carl
well... Gandalf and I talked to Boromir about his tendancy to try and make me look like "the little guy" And throughout the session he made meny attacks on my manners, my playing style, my manners, My looks, and the fact that I didn't drink all of my glass of iced tea.(I'm not jokeing)
Also he wanted to look through EVERY single room in dungeon we were supposed to be doing a quike in-out sneak mission not only did this overway the session so that we didn't finish the module this session but also screwing up the mission so that our surivale chances are several decreased.
This is ridiculous. Now I suggest not being an ass back, usually people who use such tactics often feed upon the anger or annoyance they may cause. I would suggest when Boromir decides to enter room X or doing thing n. Don't enter room X or do thing n, if it would screw up whatever your doing. Claim that he is endangering the group and not acting very Paladin like, which your character finds very suspicious.
I also agree with what Little Dragonfly said most definitely.
well... Gandalf and I talked to Boromir about his tendancy to try and make me look like "the little guy" And throughout the session he made meny attacks on my manners, my playing style, my manners, My looks, and the fact that I didn't drink all of my glass of iced tea.(I'm not jokeing)
Also he wanted to look through EVERY single room in dungeon we were supposed to be doing a quike in-out sneak mission not only did this overway the session so that we didn't finish the module this session but also screwing up the mission so that our surivale chances are several decreased.
Projection at it's purest definition. This guy is a rude prick, and is trying to make you feel like your manners are bad? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
It may be time to quit the game, and make sure to tell everybody why you're quitting. Tell them it's because this guy is an *******.
If it came to that, I'd also have to tell Aragorn that he is an epic failure of a father.
Yes, I'd really do that.
If it came to that, I'd also have to tell Aragorn that he is an epic failure of a father.
Yeah, I was kind of wondering about "Aragorn"s lack of intervention throughout this whole affair...
Alternatively, if you are extremely comfortable with your sexuality, start hitting on "Borimir." Yup. Tell him you love abusive relationships, too. Dunno how that would turn out, but I'm sure the look on his face would make the attempt worth it. :D 100 bonus points if "Aragorn" continues to passively watch the exchange without saying anything.
Yeah, I was kind of wondering about "Aragorn"s lack of intervention throughout this whole affair...
Alternatively, if you are extremely comfortable with your sexuality, start hitting on "Borimir." Yup. Tell him you love abusive relationships, too. Dunno how that would turn out, but I'm sure the look on his face would make the attempt worth it. :D 100 bonus points if "Aragorn" continues to passively watch the exchange without saying anything.
Evil. Just hope it doesn't backfire. Maybe Boromir's teasing is a front because he can't express his true feelings....
Carl
Next time he tries to correct you on your behavior, ask him if he's your dad. If he says anything other than "No, I'm not," then cut him off and ask again. If responds that he is not, then tell him to shut up and leave you alone.
Keep your rulebook handy and read aloud verbatim what it says when you want to do an action. Read aloud verbatim from the Paladin section when he plays his paladin wrong and aloud verbatim from Wizard when he tries it then.
And in regards to the father, he may be testing you. If you stand up to his son, watch his reaction and you'll know for sure. If his son's become an ass, he may be looking for someone outside the family to put him in his place. Do it.
Perhaps he just feels like observing. Maybe he wants to see if his sons will fight, etc etc. Hard to guess.
but he should be cluing his immature son in.
But, everyone's purse of forgiveness can be emptied...
He could be baiting you to this end, but it matters little, you came correct.
-Enabling: this family's lack of diplomacy and hospitality is disgusting. When my bro is acting like a jackoff in game, I kindly correct him and point out why critically first. Usually, "Hey, just cuz' you're my bro, you're still a guest in my home like the other players. Do you wish to keep your welcome? (address both conflicting parties then) Chill out, I'm DM & chief resident, so if you wanna' lock horns, I have final say, not EITHER of you." This doesn't single out each one so much as address the conflict, not the instigator/defender. 5 ranks Diplomacy, yo!;)
When it continues, then, in turn, you up the ante. I can't believe dad is so inept as to allow this patently BS schoolyard conduct. You don't have to call him out, a simple (post berating, whining, etc), "Does this embarass you as a gamer, a citizen, or a father? Do you feel this way as well?"
*dramatic pause* Engage them, politely, always politely as if you give a man enough rope, they'll hang themselves.
Ball's in his court then...as it always was. His jellyfish backbone has to shore up eventually. Imagine his home life when he's not gaming w/ this prick son. You're not insulting him so much as saying, "Time to parent".
-Bullying: not even talking about his "in game commentary", but he's clutching at straws which is a fool's errand and show's you his mettle, which is weak to say the least. He's got an agenda and wields innuendo like a drunk fratboy. He would do well to cut you out like a surgeon, not a butcher, but he's a lout & a bafoon, so he can't effectively. Exposing him should be child's play. If he were any kind of man, he's just say, "I want you gone and here's why." rather than drawing it out like some cancer, making the entire gaming party have to weather all his unfounded angst.
"Iced tea?"...
for f's sake, that's petty. In another time/place, the solution to that one is toss it in his face, and then say, "Okay, I'm done with it now. And yes, it was terribly refreshing. I may have another as you have made me rather thirsty." What a dick move, iced tea, God... Put some Visine in his discretely. He'll never know (undetectable), but man, he'll feel it in "untimely bathroom break from Hell" (squirties :D)...kind of poetic given the untimely death of your prisoners when you were in the can, no? Ha!And if he wants to get physical, you can bait him, just don't touch him. Take the hits, let it happen. In the long run, you win. He'll leave in handcuffs w/ a violent crime on his record for life (he's past 18, it's adult now) screwing job prospects, proving to his dad that he is a dumb ogre, and most importantly, getting him out of the game by his own action, not your's. Win win.
Rules lawyering: others summed it up best, proof is in the pudding (books). Precident is the mandate for dicks like these, so let the book do the talking as he surely isn't gonna' let you defend yourself fairly on your own.
Only thing else I can advise is to analyze his outside life. Gaming is just a vehicle for him to assert his alpha male monkeyisms, which is fine, if you are conent living your life as a blundering ape.
Next time he does it, just call him out. The first time he treats you like that again say "Dude, we talked about this, and I tried to be an adult. You are being a dick. There's no reason for you to say something like that to me. I have not provoked you, and I don't deserve it. Stop being an ass." In most cases of bullies, when you don't tke their bullying and just point out that they're being a dick for no reason, they get pretty embarrassed. And you tried to play fair and be the bigger man. All bets are off now, and embarrasing him in front of his family is now fair game.
Possible snide remarks to direct at bullies: "Your behavior leads me to believe you only put others down to make up for your own...shortcomings."
or "Are you being such a jerk to hide your real feelings? Because I'm not into dudes. Sorry, man."
No need to try and insult the father. Yes, he's not doing his job, but calling his son out is going to result in either:
a) Standing by again while you call his son a jerk
or
b) Acting out and saying something. Either to finally step in and correct his son, or possibly to defend him. And if he does that, THEN you can call him on his lack of ability to rein in his son.
Don't go picking a fight and seeking conflict with a second player when you already have problems with one. If he wants to get involved, he will.
well... Gandalf and I talked to Boromir about his tendancy to try and make me look like "the little guy" And throughout the session he made meny attacks on my manners, my playing style, my manners, My looks, and the fact that I didn't drink all of my glass of iced tea.(I'm not jokeing)
I'd disagree with many of the posters who have advised being rude back, either in-character (e.g. trying to point out un-paladin-like behavior) or through more direct baiting or insulting. From what you say, I doubt anything in-character will matter to Boromir, if he even notices. Direct insulting will just make him feel that much more justified in his abusiveness - because if you're acting like a jerk, he'll think, then why should he be nice to you?
Really, you've not got any easy options. If you're not willing to put up with it (and good for you that you're not!), then you've either got to leave the game or have Boromir dealt with from a position of authority. Usually, the DM should be the authority, but it's awkward in this case, with the younger brother being the DM. It sounds, from your quote above, like your DM is at least willing to acknowledge that his brother is being cruel to you. But will he consider it enough of a problem that he'll un-invite the brother from the game, or put the brother on notice of being booted lest he shape up?
Depending on your relationship with the father, he may or may not be a useful avenue. I wouldn't advise trying to get the father to do the enforcing, though - that seems like something with too much potential to make a bigger interpersonal mess. If you get the father involved at all, I might suggest that you ask for his support in convincing the DM to take action. Your DM is probably going to be more comfortable wielding his Supreme DM Authority knowing that his dad supports him on it, rather than being concerned that he's causing family strife.
At any rate, good luck to you. Not a great situation to be in. We recently had to tell a new DM that "he goes or we go", and it was hard even with the knowledge that the DM himself wasn't the biggest fan of the player in question.