Im playing an assassin 3/ lvl monk 2 lvl. who is very hardcore for a 5 lvl.
the city we are based in has a lord running it and is a standard city with all the various guilds etc in place.
Ideally I want to Take over the city and have a patsy running it but would settle for owning a good percentage of the businesses to finance my adventures as the DM is really really stingy with loot. (the party have only just had a +1 dagger as loot)
Does any one have any ideas about how I could go about doing this as I really want to keep my DM on his toes and make him think fast.
I was thinking about going into the merchants district at night sneaking into one of the merchants houses and getting him to hand over the deeds to his house and business. Killing him and his family and then breaking into the central records office changing their records to show that I have been the owner for 3 Months previous.. then hiring someone to run the shop for me.
cant do this indefinately as the watch would get suspicious finding merchants dead..
any ideas?
Do it like this. You have a bunch of bandits. You raid a few caravans. Next you set up a caravan protection racket. People pay you before heading out and you make sure that bandits don't raid the caravans. Since you run the bandits you just tell them to attack only those who haven't paid up. After a time you sit back and let the money roll in. Of course no DM will let you just sit back and let the money roll in that where all the adventure, intrigues and role playing come in.
Best way to earn gold as your income versus silver or copper is to marry rich or work in a castle as a castellan or some other responsible post. It's just not the most exciting. Having to roll a skill challenge to properly arrange the King's clothes for the following morning, making your Dust the Bookshelf check, trying to Bluff by looking properly snooty when some grungy-looking ranger asks to see the King about those unwashed bandits that have been raiding the caravans...
With your group, by a big share of a certain caravan company. Then, go out and kill lots of the other caravan riders, so that your company is the most successful.
Oo! I know! *Kill other adventuring parties for their loot* IT's a win win! Not only do you kill the people who'd be hired to hunt you down, but you get their phat loot as well.
To give you an example. I was playing a tinker/artificer that managed to set up a shop selling tinker devices at 60G each.. for this I had to hire in a work force to make the devices (skilled engineers) a sales force rent a workshop for manufacture and then also rent a shop.
From this I was gleaning about 800G per week. profit. if I had liquidated all the assets I would have ben able to get my hands on about 15K but all the profits really were just pumped into the estate..
I really want something that will run fairly smoothly but with a high turn over of gold.. We dont really get much downtime between missions to kill this thing or rescue that wizard..
Edit
Gang land Capitalism... I like that Idea allot!!!
It's like if you were playing "Extreme Bakery RPG", a game about playing bakers and running a bakery, and the players all decided to go work as accountants for five sessions to make more money to improve their bakery.
Depending on your game's economy, it might not even pay that much. 15gp is about a year's pay for a commoner. Most commoners have never seen more than 3 or 4 gold pieces in one place in their lives.
This seems... incredibly low.
A level 1 human commoner with an average 10 in every stat has 9 skill points.
Even with only the most rudimentary and basic skills (1 Rank in Profession) he'll be making about 1/2 his average check in gold per week.
With one rank, and no other bonuses he has an average check of 11. On average week, the poorest trained of commoners earns 5gp 50sliver per week.
His yearly income is around 250gold.
Alternatively, he can have NO ranks in craft all 10s in his scores and still make simple items in the home (DC 10).
Taking 10, he makes 10x10 of sp of progress per week on items with no real chance of failure. or 100sp, 10gp. 1/3rd of that or about or about 4gp went into materials. Leaving him about 6gp of profit.
I remember one time seeing a big thread about all this. Commoners aren't as bad off as it seems.
Don't forget taxes, though. Taxes, fines, and fees are how governments make money. And they, generally speaking, use that money to pay for roads, guards, and other public necessities. Taxes may comprise about 1/5 to 1/3 (maybe even half if its a particularly onerous government) of the gross.
Okay we're still looking at income of 125g-175g. Even for a commoner below the average workers skill level. We're looking at taxes in excess of 90%+ of income to hit that 15g figure.(assuming that taxes aren't already accounted for in normal profession checks).
Extortion really only works when you have a large enough gang that you can get minions to do the dirty work for you and are powerful enough that those suspicious (ie the former workers and partners) are too scared to run to the authorities.
My best sugestion is that you consider kidnapping and ransoming. Short and sweet and you can walk away if things go bad. Taking over someone's business means you have to stay connected to your plot and the mountain of evidence you leave in your wake, chalenges and accusations etc.
Ransoming is easier. You kidnap wealthy people, preferably those who aren't popular, and hold them for ransom. Ask for reasonable amounts that they can easily liquidate to pay the ransom fast, collect the money and split. Some notes though.
-Don't kill or harm the kidnapped prisoners, this encourages others to cooperate with you in the future as payment will ensure their safety.
-Don't get greedy, ask for sums that they can pay with available liquid assets. Asking for more (ie sums that require they sell businesses etc) makes payment a problem and may result in them being unwilling or unable to pay.
-This works good while adventuring, if you raid a caravan, for example, you can hold the merchants ransom for release as well as looting the caravan. Feel free to release merchants if they give their parole (ie swear that they will send payment to you in exchange for sparing their life and releasing you)
- raw materials
- rent on workspace
- (wear and tear of tools would go here, but we'll assume it's minimal.)
- rent on storefront (yes, it can be the same building as your crafting shop - and frequently should be - but unless you're doing something high-value, high-skill, low-turnover like jewelry, you'll want separate square footage.)
- time in front selling, or hiring/marrying someone to run the front of the store for you
- taxes
- dues to local criminal element/protection racket
all in all, they don't make *nearly* as much money as you might think by looking at the raw materials cost (bought), final product value (when sold), and time spent to craft.
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As for the OP....
Well, if you're going to take over the city and have a patsy running it, then why not cut out the middleman and have the current ruler of the city as your patsy?
- generally only works well in a city where there is already a lot of behind-the-scenes maneuvering and unofficial power groups. If the titular leader is already used to bowing to pressure groups, you just have to install yourself properly. If he/she has a spine and some pride, you'll have to break him/her first, which could get messy. It is entirely possible that it'll be easier to pick a new town with an already weak leader than to break a strong leader.
- really does require that your faction (ie, party) be the scariest faction out there. At 5th level, that's likely not happening yet.
- requires that you either have or have the willing assistance of someone with some fairly solid charisma skills. Note that taking over and running a city really is a full-party job. You won't be able to do it alone. It helps a great deal if you have multiple people working from different directions on it. It is usually pretty difficult to call in significant assistance from powerbases not your own, but if you have, say, one person imfiltrating the local church hierarchy, while another works on becoming the charismatic hero of the people, between you you get a much tighter grip on the city than is visible from the outside.
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For you, the core competencies are stealth and killing people. That's okay. These are good core competencies to have for the purpose. Acquire the necessary degree of competence to do the following, and then execute.
- appear in the bedchamber of the lord one evening when he is alone, not having been seen by anyone else along the way. Ensure that he does not raise an alarm by any means short of actually harming him. Express that you are a friend, a patriot, a loyal vassal - whatever flimsy rationalization you can come up with to say that you're on his side. Given that you're an obviously tremendously dangerous individual who's able to evade his guards, he'll be inclined to take you at your word. Sympathize with him over the various unfortunate pressure groups in his city, and how awful it must be to deal with them. Make sure you know which pressure groups clash with him regularly before you go in - and the more privileged the information, the better. Ask if there are any groups that are of *particular* trouble, that your humble self might be of assistance with. Take notes if necessary.
- In the following nights, kill the heads of any organizations that he's happened to name. Kill their guards, if so inclined, and possibly wipe out significant chunks of their upper echelons. Leave no living witnesses in any case. If he names a significant number of groups then only target those that he admits to being most troubled by. You want to make sure that there are still some targets left after you are done. If you can make it appear that all have died of natural causes, that could be entertaining, but otherwise go ahead and make it obvious that they were slaughtered.
- Come back and visit him again, again at a time when there will be no witnesses, to again pledge your loyalty and state that you have served him as your talents permit in those things that were causing consternation. Ask if there are any other little troubles that he might be concerned with. Use diplomacy to inveigle a few more names out of him. If he's enough of a slimeball to make this work at all, he'll have a few more names.
- After the next round of murders are through, come back again. Give him the opportunity to name a few more names, if he wants. Also, apologetically, admit that "his loyal servant" does have... well, needs some assistance from him. Act embarrassed. Name a significant sum of money - large enough so that it's obvious that you're actually blackmailing him at this point, but small enough that he can handle it without too much fuss. Make no overt threats - still, you've demonstrated adequately by that point that you can pretty much kill him any time you want, and you know that he's connected, at least somewhat, to the recent murders. He should be able to fill in the blanks.
- Farm the man. Drop by from time to time to ask for more of the lord's generousity, and occasionally kill off people that he finds troublesome. Make sure that the sums that you demand are small enough that he can handle them without *too* much trouble, and that you at least give him the option to call in a hit often enough that he can feel that he's getting a reasonable amount out of the deal. It's all about the carrot and stick, really - and about letting him lie to himself. As long as you keep up the pretense that you are really just an unorthodox but loyal servant who lives (like all such servants) on the largesse of your lord, he doesn't have to openly admit to himself that you're blackmailing him with the threat of death. Continuing to pay without complaint will let him maintain that illusion, and thus his desire to maintain the illusion will make him more inclined to do it.
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Now, that doesn't tell you what to do *between* now and the time that you get to be powerful enough that you can basically walk through any security in the city without a trace and kill whoever you please without leaving witnesses, but....
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Owning a good percentage of the businesses actually takes a somewhat different skill set, and is something else you could do at the same time (or have one of your fellow party members do. The technique is somewhat simpler.
- Create a thieves guild and acquire control of the criminal element. Take control of or wipe out all opposing groups and give the "join or die" pitch to any free agents. Ensure that your grip on the criminal element is secure, and your "territory" covers a significant chunk of the city (preferably all). This will provide some money. It does not have to be *all* of the criminal element mind - though the more you can get, the better. The thieves, thugs, cutpurses and cutthroats, however, are a must. Make sure that the members of the guild will follow your rules. Punish infractions and free agents severely.
- set up a protection racket. Make sure that the places under your protection stay protected. Make sure that the places not under your protection... aren't protected. This can be done piecemeal as you're setting up the thieves guild.
- Start offering loans to those who need them, or who can't pay the protection money. Charge interest rates that are high but not astronomical. The objective is that getting out from under a loan should be possible, but not easy. Hire accountants if necessary, and pay them pretty well. If you find that any of your accountants are cheating you (and you should check from time to time) kill them in particularly unpleasant ways and make sure everybody knows about it. If anyone falls too far behind, take percentages in their shops in lieu of payment. (You don't want the whole shop if you can avoid it because you want to keep them reasonably motivated to keep making money. Partial owners require less direct management than employees.)
- somewhere along the way, it would be useful to suborn the town guard. Bribes can be useful for this - with alcohol and *****s being particularly efficient ways to bribe. You do own the *****houses by now, right?
so, basically, at the end of the day, you're collecting protection money from most of the city and own a percentage of a fair amount of it. On the other side, you're collecting blackmail/assassination money from the top, and you have the ear of the lord. The lord can afford to pull money out of the town guard and the courts because you're keeping the peace with a bloody fist from the other side, and you leave the nobles and upper classes largely alone - except for those who give you trouble. They all die in the night with no evidence.
I would go with either
-selling and or producing weapons (normal none magic stuff)
-Leather SHOES an army allways needs shoes (well the human ones^^) and lots of them ;)
-food preferably just reselling setting up lots of farms and defending them might be a more trouble than anything
-or perhaps supply carts
In short anything an army needs would be a good starting point (if there is a war currently available to exploit ;)) for good money and perhaps even influence with local lords
If there is war (is there any time in the warhammer world without war?)
I would go with either
-selling and or producing weapons (normal none magic stuff)
-Leather SHOES an army allways needs shoes (well the human ones^^) and lots of them ;)
-food preferably just reselling setting up lots of farms and defending them might be a more trouble than anything
-or perhaps supply carts
In short anything an army needs would be a good starting point (if there is a war currently available to exploit ;)) for good money and perhaps even influence with local lords
Of course if you can get yourself access to Fabricate at some point.....
Okay we're still looking at income of 125g-175g. Even for a commoner below the average workers skill level. We're looking at taxes in excess of 90%+ of income to hit that 15g figure.(assuming that taxes aren't already accounted for in normal profession checks).
Also, most 'commoners' wouldn't know they could exploit the system to make such a profit. :P They'd be more likely to simply get along tilling fields, crafting things only for their own use, perhaps the ocassional sale of their produce - and that money is used to buy 'luxuries' like things they can't produce themselves. And then any extra money or produce is tithed to the church or taken as taxes.
Not to mention the likelihood that there is some sort of community service required of them by their village/town/king that pays nothing but basic rations. Militia service, guard duty, hole-digging, paving roads, stuff like that. Now, I'm sourcing this information from a television show (The Worst Jobs in History) about medieval britain, but it seems pretty fair to assume that a commoner/peasant would spend 90% of their time just tilling fields, making repairs, making bread/cooking, and then 10% of their time doing required community service.
I'd do it something like this:
Find yourself a good hideout in an out of the way area near several highways (ie: a clearing in the forest near the crossroads of several towns, or a cave none too far from several villiages/thorps,) and from time to time make raids on carvans/ smaller settlements. Be sure not to make too many raids on the same highway/settlement to avoid attracting attention.
Take as many prisoners as you can, making sure to kill any obvious leaders in the most gruesome manner you can think of, preferably after his capture rather than during the raid.
Proceed to break the wills of your captives. The most common method is to use the classic carrot and stick method (though admittedly the stick will see more use.) You teach them that obedience is rewarded and disobedience brings pain/death.
Then sell them at whatever market is convenient and or reliable.
You can skip the training of your captives to be good slaves but they'll command a lesser value that way.
Note that this will require that you put together some sort of organization/gang, as four people can have a hard time keeping a large group of captives under control.
DISCLAIMER: This is probably one of the most distasteful ways to make money in any rpg, but done properly it is reasonably profitable.
1) Enter town.
2) Proclaim yourself as a Witch Hunter.
3) Accuse basically anyone you want of being a Chaos Sympathizer.
4a)Kill them, sell their stuff.
4b) Allow them release for a 'modest fee'.
Alternate plan -
1) Find a skeleton somewhere.
2) Sell the bits of it as holy relics.
Alternate plan 2 -
1) Make/steal a bunch of crappy jewelry.
2) Sell it as holy relics.
What I have decided to do is this:
Going to get a list of all the higher merchants from the butler. I will stake out and follow one of them..Probably one with an apothacary (as im an assassin I want it for poisons) maybe even one with a distribution network or carriages etc.. but more than likely will have a couple of businesses on the go.
I will then go to the guys house late at night disguised at him tell the staff to have the night off..
Tie him his wife and child up in the basement..
Tell him that he will be dying at the end of the night but he has a chance to save his wife and children ( different disguise this time) he will sign over his house and businesses to me.
I will have a new identity (and disguise) whos businesses keeps him out of town, set up who will own the house and the businesses etc. all paper trails will follow to this person.
after a certain amount of persuation this will result in me owning all the guys material wealth.
Then i will make it look like he hanged himself in a murder suicide leaving a note stating that in this troubles time where the city is beseaged by skaven and beast men hearing rumours of armoured warriors heading towards the city he was afriad for the safety of his family. to prevent them from being raped and sold into slavery or even worse having their eternal souls damned to the chaos gods he killed them.. for their own good... blah blah mey god have mercy on his soul etc.. yadda yadda..
Then its all fairly straight forward.. rent the house out the promote someone to regional manager and it will run itself with periodical drop ins from "me" to check on the running..
then I have the capital to start doing hostile takeovers of other businesses and then once I own the majority of the businesses the Lord will have to do what I say or I just mess the city economy up...
Ill let you know how it goes.