Blind Player Characters? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Blind Player Characters?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sumec
Nov 16, 2009 23:04:33 Hello all, sorry if this question has been asked in the past (I'm nearly certain it has.) but the search function wasn't working out too well for me.

I recently started playing D&D again with a group of friends, and have found myself hooked once again. The problem is, I've forgotten more or less everything about how it works. In any event, I'm gonna be giving a Forgotten Realms 3.5 chat a shot (Digital Dreaming to be more specific.) and so I was reading up on Faiths and Pantheons. The section on Shar seemed pretty interesting, and I was considering making a blind character that would gradually come to try and personify her ideals, to the extent that he tries to emulate her class levels (Shadowdancer levels, Shadow Adept, etc.)

Anyway... Is it even practical to make a blind character? Could one pull it off with various Feats and stuff?

Thanks for the help in advance!
#2
slobo777a
Nov 17, 2009 3:47:47 Well Blind Fighting would be a start. If you can take a race that gets Scent (?) as an option - this grants power to locate foes simply. But in general for 3.5 no it would be a painful experience to make a blind character by RAW - especially in a combat-heavy or exploration-heavy game.

What you want to avoid is having to make lots of die rolls and guesses every round in combat just to have a normal chance of hitting. It will get tiring quickly, and also waste time.

Possibly, you could agree some limited blindsense, tremorsense or blindvision with DM by virtue of being a Hero/ine who has been blind a long time, and has gained an Exceptional ability of spatial awareness near their person. Perhaps just 10' blindvision, and the option to increase this every three levels with a Feat for another 10'. This wouldn't allow the character to read (scrolls!), notice colour etc, and you might have *serious* problems with insubstantial foes. The DM might also rule you less effective inside any area of magical silence. However, it would allow the character to interact usefully in most combat and exploration.
#3
MrCelsius
Nov 17, 2009 11:34:12 No mechanical blindness, just roleplay it. Super-hearing, blindsight, tremorsense, really really good at guessing, whatever. Don't bring the mechanics into it, just say 'her keen senses allow her to function as well as any sighted person' and leave it at that. Occasionally you'll have to roleplay disadvantages you don't have, like not being able to discern colour, and it'd help to have your DM on your side when it comes to making it work (if the party's in a darkened chamber in which you wouldn't be able to see, have the DM describe it as full of echoes and false noises that render your super-hearing just as blind, for example). If you can snag darkvision somehow, that'd allow your senses to keep working in the dark and save you a bit of trouble. Good luck with it, whatever you decide to go with.
#4
boraxe
Nov 17, 2009 11:54:04 You can offset the penalties for blindness with feats and some help from the DM but you need to invest so much of your character resources to doing so, to just getting on an even footing with the other PCs, that it really is not very feasible or particularly considerate.

A better option is to either jsut hand wave it away - giving you no penalties or benefits of any kind - or talk to your DM about coming up with some sort of workaround "fantasy blindess" that you can buy with a feat or to replace a race/class feature.
#5
Ka_D-Argo
Nov 17, 2009 15:50:33
No mechanical blindness, just roleplay it. Super-hearing, blindsight, tremorsense, really really good at guessing, whatever. Don't bring the mechanics into it, just say 'her keen senses allow her to function as well as any sighted person' and leave it at that. Occasionally you'll have to roleplay disadvantages you don't have, like not being able to discern colour, and it'd help to have your DM on your side when it comes to making it work (if the party's in a darkened chamber in which you wouldn't be able to see, have the DM describe it as full of echoes and false noises that render your super-hearing just as blind, for example). If you can snag darkvision somehow, that'd allow your senses to keep working in the dark and save you a bit of trouble. Good luck with it, whatever you decide to go with.

The above quoted is, in my opinion, is the best way to do it.

Though, if it is found necessary to apply mechanics to it. And this does depend on race and how long they've been blind, but for arguments sake we will use humans and say from birth. I would probably grant scent as the bonus feat humans get.

Listen and Spot would likely become class skills regardless of class. I list Spot as it can alternatively be used as a perception type check.

For combat, I'd have them roll either a Listen or Spot check to determine whether they can hit without penalties (this could also include if they are able to locate the enemy to be able to move up to them). The check would be versus the opponents AC or Move Silently roll. If they make their roll they can continue to attack without penalty. Only a single roll need be made per opponent unless their position changes or they make a new Move Silent roll.

If you get really ambitious, you can add (or subtract) armor penalty checks but that will likely draw out the math and slow down the process even more.
#6
aaddern
Nov 18, 2009 12:29:31 in my last 3.5 Game, one of the party members wanted to play a blind druid whom relyed on her other sences and such to guide her. it worked out well. we renamed her 'spot' as just a generaic sence. and let the roleplay dictate things rather then the rules.

as 99.5 % of that game took place with light, there was only really a handfull of encounters where being blind and having sence could have 'paid off' ... but as she did a superb job roleplaying being blind, it was never a big deal ( even closed her eyes quite offten while talking in charicter ) ..

#7
Stuntman
Nov 18, 2009 13:04:31 I actually did play a blind character in 2E for a few years. I was a psionicist and took abilities that offset my blindness.

I found that after a while, the novelty of being blind wore off and it just felt more of a nusance than a cool thing. I had the best DM I've ever played with for that campaign and he made the game very fun. It was very combat light, but when combat did happen, I just felt like I was missing out too much. I had to use all of my powers to minimise the penalties. After always burning power points on hear light or suffer -2 to all attacks, it just gets to you. I did have fun, but I just felt like I had 25% less fun than everyone else. Hear light was cool the first few times. After that, it was just a power point sink and I felt I could have done something cooler with those same power points.

I've played 2 campaigns with this group and DM. In the other campaign I was not playing a blind character and I have to say that it was more fun to not be blind.
#8
Tequilasaurus
Nov 18, 2009 14:23:45
There's a blind PC spellcaster in my current game. Since we run a less-than-serious campaign, it makes for a lot of running gags and the like. It turns out he's a very quirky and well liked character. From a mechanical standpoint, he has to follow some callouts from the other characters in a lot of fighting situations. We've also chosen to let him ignore his chance to miss penalties in most circumstances, but when he's separated from the party, he's usually in quite a pickle. It makes for interesting RPing among the players, and keeps him on a balanced level of helpfulness as the other characters.
#9
BilopTheFleshwarper
Nov 19, 2009 5:00:26 NOTE: I DID NOT READ THE POSTS! YOU ARE WARNED!

No. Blind. PC's.

Seriously... It's cool as a thought, but you either cheat yourself, the game, or the party.

Blindness sucks, it doesn't give you super powers to be the best ANYTHING in the world BECAUSE you are blind. Compensating for it is only able to be done by regaining your sight. Anything else ruins the idea because the mechanics don't support it.

BEST ADVICE: Say the character is blind... but mechanically he isn't.
#10
nikitadarkstar
Nov 19, 2009 19:51:47 Whats up with people wanting to play blind characters anyway? Considering how much foa handicap blindness realy is I'm seriously having issues seeing a blind PC, even with magic to compensate for it. Why don't we ever see a deaf character? And very rarely a mute one instead?

Anyway sorry for the rant, but seriously don't do it, you'll either annoy yourself and the party if you really want to play a blind character, or you'll end up playing one thats "blind" as in gets to say they're blind but don't really have any problems at all with being blind, so then why do it in the first place?
#11
entropy_judge
Nov 19, 2009 20:08:43
Whats up with people wanting to play blind characters anyway? Considering how much foa handicap blindness realy is I'm seriously having issues seeing a blind PC, even with magic to compensate for it. Why don't we ever see a deaf character? And very rarely a mute one instead?

Anyway sorry for the rant, but seriously don't do it, you'll either annoy yourself and the party if you really want to play a blind character, or you'll end up playing one thats "blind" as in gets to say they're blind but don't really have any problems at all with being blind, so then why do it in the first place?

Probably because there are enough badass blind swordsmen (or whatever) around in media that aren't handicapped as they should be. Meanwhile, being mute isn't considered a handicap (the main character from the PKMN games, Link, etc), and most people simply don't think about being deaf (of which the biggest disadvantages I can think of are balance and being surprised).

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Disa...
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Hand...
#12
BilopTheFleshwarper
Nov 20, 2009 3:47:33 Must... resisty urge to click TVtrope links.... I don't have the time for it... must resist...
#13
pluisjen
Nov 20, 2009 4:19:26 Read this, it might help you understand the why of it:

www.noneedforbushido.com/

(Blind character is introduced a bit into the story, but it's a good comic so you shouldn't really mind :P)
#14
entropy_judge
Nov 20, 2009 9:22:47
Must... resisty urge to click TVtrope links.... I don't have the time for it... must resist...

Come now, surely you can spare ... just a few minutes ... to read a couple pages. It won't take long .... *strokes fluffy white demon-familiar-thing while smirking*
#15
DreamerInsane
Nov 21, 2009 12:17:46 As far as I know, there's actually a 3.5e feat called Blindsight (from Masters of the Wild, IIRC). The unfortunate thing is, it's Druid-only. Of course, your DM might handwave it. The blindsight granted by the feat does have a range limit which shouldn't really affect combat (I think it's 120feet/about 36 metres, certainly no more than that). So the blind person can't discern things far away and is colourblind, at least. It does kill invisibility pretty effectively, which might result in gameplay problems.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sumec Nov 16, 2009 23:04:33	Hello all, sorry if this question has been asked in the past (I'm nearly certain it has.) but the search function wasn't working out too well for me. I recently started playing D&D again with a group of friends, and have found myself hooked once again. The problem is, I've forgotten more or less everything about how it works. In any event, I'm gonna be giving a Forgotten Realms 3.5 chat a shot (Digital Dreaming to be more specific.) and so I was reading up on Faiths and Pantheons. The section on Shar seemed pretty interesting, and I was considering making a blind character that would gradually come to try and personify her ideals, to the extent that he tries to emulate her class levels (Shadowdancer levels, Shadow Adept, etc.) Anyway... Is it even practical to make a blind character? Could one pull it off with various Feats and stuff? Thanks for the help in advance!
#2 slobo777a Nov 17, 2009 3:47:47	Well Blind Fighting would be a start. If you can take a race that gets Scent (?) as an option - this grants power to locate foes simply. But in general for 3.5 no it would be a painful experience to make a blind character by RAW - especially in a combat-heavy or exploration-heavy game. What you want to avoid is having to make lots of die rolls and guesses every round in combat just to have a normal chance of hitting. It will get tiring quickly, and also waste time. Possibly, you could agree some limited blindsense, tremorsense or blindvision with DM by virtue of being a Hero/ine who has been blind a long time, and has gained an Exceptional ability of spatial awareness near their person. Perhaps just 10' blindvision, and the option to increase this every three levels with a Feat for another 10'. This wouldn't allow the character to read (scrolls!), notice colour etc, and you might have serious problems with insubstantial foes. The DM might also rule you less effective inside any area of magical silence. However, it would allow the character to interact usefully in most combat and exploration.
#3 MrCelsius Nov 17, 2009 11:34:12	No mechanical blindness, just roleplay it. Super-hearing, blindsight, tremorsense, really really good at guessing, whatever. Don't bring the mechanics into it, just say 'her keen senses allow her to function as well as any sighted person' and leave it at that. Occasionally you'll have to roleplay disadvantages you don't have, like not being able to discern colour, and it'd help to have your DM on your side when it comes to making it work (if the party's in a darkened chamber in which you wouldn't be able to see, have the DM describe it as full of echoes and false noises that render your super-hearing just as blind, for example). If you can snag darkvision somehow, that'd allow your senses to keep working in the dark and save you a bit of trouble. Good luck with it, whatever you decide to go with.
#4 boraxe Nov 17, 2009 11:54:04	You can offset the penalties for blindness with feats and some help from the DM but you need to invest so much of your character resources to doing so, to just getting on an even footing with the other PCs, that it really is not very feasible or particularly considerate. A better option is to either jsut hand wave it away - giving you no penalties or benefits of any kind - or talk to your DM about coming up with some sort of workaround "fantasy blindess" that you can buy with a feat or to replace a race/class feature.
#5 Ka_D-Argo Nov 17, 2009 15:50:33	No mechanical blindness, just roleplay it. Super-hearing, blindsight, tremorsense, really really good at guessing, whatever. Don't bring the mechanics into it, just say 'her keen senses allow her to function as well as any sighted person' and leave it at that. Occasionally you'll have to roleplay disadvantages you don't have, like not being able to discern colour, and it'd help to have your DM on your side when it comes to making it work (if the party's in a darkened chamber in which you wouldn't be able to see, have the DM describe it as full of echoes and false noises that render your super-hearing just as blind, for example). If you can snag darkvision somehow, that'd allow your senses to keep working in the dark and save you a bit of trouble. Good luck with it, whatever you decide to go with. The above quoted is, in my opinion, is the best way to do it. Though, if it is found necessary to apply mechanics to it. And this does depend on race and how long they've been blind, but for arguments sake we will use humans and say from birth. I would probably grant scent as the bonus feat humans get. Listen and Spot would likely become class skills regardless of class. I list Spot as it can alternatively be used as a perception type check. For combat, I'd have them roll either a Listen or Spot check to determine whether they can hit without penalties (this could also include if they are able to locate the enemy to be able to move up to them). The check would be versus the opponents AC or Move Silently roll. If they make their roll they can continue to attack without penalty. Only a single roll need be made per opponent unless their position changes or they make a new Move Silent roll. If you get really ambitious, you can add (or subtract) armor penalty checks but that will likely draw out the math and slow down the process even more.
#6 aaddern Nov 18, 2009 12:29:31	in my last 3.5 Game, one of the party members wanted to play a blind druid whom relyed on her other sences and such to guide her. it worked out well. we renamed her 'spot' as just a generaic sence. and let the roleplay dictate things rather then the rules. as 99.5 % of that game took place with light, there was only really a handfull of encounters where being blind and having sence could have 'paid off' ... but as she did a superb job roleplaying being blind, it was never a big deal ( even closed her eyes quite offten while talking in charicter ) ..
#7 Stuntman Nov 18, 2009 13:04:31	I actually did play a blind character in 2E for a few years. I was a psionicist and took abilities that offset my blindness. I found that after a while, the novelty of being blind wore off and it just felt more of a nusance than a cool thing. I had the best DM I've ever played with for that campaign and he made the game very fun. It was very combat light, but when combat did happen, I just felt like I was missing out too much. I had to use all of my powers to minimise the penalties. After always burning power points on hear light or suffer -2 to all attacks, it just gets to you. I did have fun, but I just felt like I had 25% less fun than everyone else. Hear light was cool the first few times. After that, it was just a power point sink and I felt I could have done something cooler with those same power points. I've played 2 campaigns with this group and DM. In the other campaign I was not playing a blind character and I have to say that it was more fun to not be blind.
#8 Tequilasaurus Nov 18, 2009 14:23:45	There's a blind PC spellcaster in my current game. Since we run a less-than-serious campaign, it makes for a lot of running gags and the like. It turns out he's a very quirky and well liked character. From a mechanical standpoint, he has to follow some callouts from the other characters in a lot of fighting situations. We've also chosen to let him ignore his chance to miss penalties in most circumstances, but when he's separated from the party, he's usually in quite a pickle. It makes for interesting RPing among the players, and keeps him on a balanced level of helpfulness as the other characters.
#9 BilopTheFleshwarper Nov 19, 2009 5:00:26	NOTE: I DID NOT READ THE POSTS! YOU ARE WARNED! No. Blind. PC's. Seriously... It's cool as a thought, but you either cheat yourself, the game, or the party. Blindness sucks, it doesn't give you super powers to be the best ANYTHING in the world BECAUSE you are blind. Compensating for it is only able to be done by regaining your sight. Anything else ruins the idea because the mechanics don't support it. BEST ADVICE: Say the character is blind... but mechanically he isn't.
#10 nikitadarkstar Nov 19, 2009 19:51:47	Whats up with people wanting to play blind characters anyway? Considering how much foa handicap blindness realy is I'm seriously having issues seeing a blind PC, even with magic to compensate for it. Why don't we ever see a deaf character? And very rarely a mute one instead? Anyway sorry for the rant, but seriously don't do it, you'll either annoy yourself and the party if you really want to play a blind character, or you'll end up playing one thats "blind" as in gets to say they're blind but don't really have any problems at all with being blind, so then why do it in the first place?
#11 entropy_judge Nov 19, 2009 20:08:43	Whats up with people wanting to play blind characters anyway? Considering how much foa handicap blindness realy is I'm seriously having issues seeing a blind PC, even with magic to compensate for it. Why don't we ever see a deaf character? And very rarely a mute one instead? Anyway sorry for the rant, but seriously don't do it, you'll either annoy yourself and the party if you really want to play a blind character, or you'll end up playing one thats "blind" as in gets to say they're blind but don't really have any problems at all with being blind, so then why do it in the first place? Probably because there are enough badass blind swordsmen (or whatever) around in media that aren't handicapped as they should be. Meanwhile, being mute isn't considered a handicap (the main character from the PKMN games, Link, etc), and most people simply don't think about being deaf (of which the biggest disadvantages I can think of are balance and being surprised). tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Disa... tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Hand...
#12 BilopTheFleshwarper Nov 20, 2009 3:47:33	Must... resisty urge to click TVtrope links.... I don't have the time for it... must resist...
#13 pluisjen Nov 20, 2009 4:19:26	Read this, it might help you understand the why of it: www.noneedforbushido.com/ (Blind character is introduced a bit into the story, but it's a good comic so you shouldn't really mind :P)
#14 entropy_judge Nov 20, 2009 9:22:47	Must... resisty urge to click TVtrope links.... I don't have the time for it... must resist... Come now, surely you can spare ... just a few minutes ... to read a couple pages. It won't take long .... strokes fluffy white demon-familiar-thing while smirking
#15 DreamerInsane Nov 21, 2009 12:17:46	As far as I know, there's actually a 3.5e feat called Blindsight (from Masters of the Wild, IIRC). The unfortunate thing is, it's Druid-only. Of course, your DM might handwave it. The blindsight granted by the feat does have a range limit which shouldn't really affect combat (I think it's 120feet/about 36 metres, certainly no more than that). So the blind person can't discern things far away and is colourblind, at least. It does kill invisibility pretty effectively, which might result in gameplay problems.