| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1randyrabbitFeb 06, 2011 21:13:57 | Hi Folks, This is posted in here as I am the player of the campaign, but this question could be asked from a DM stand point as well because I also DM and am not quite sure how I would handle this situation. My warlord is Cha based and I took Harlequin Style as a feat. I'm level 8 with a 26 AC and if I use Brash Assault, I get to add my Cha (+5) modifier to my AC against attacks from that target until the end of my next turn. As a part of the power, the creature can make a melee basic against me, but doing so grants my ally a melee basic as well with combat advantage. It is up to the DM whether this creature decides to make the attack or not. In what situations would you think it's reasonable to take that attack? In what situations do you think it makes sense the creature doesn't take that attack? If my DM doesn't take this option to attack very often, is it more worth my time as a warlord to drop brash assualt and the harlequin and pick up another at will and a feat like master of arms, or bastard sword prof, or maybe enlarged breath? The only reason I'll hang on to it now is that it might come in handy to at least make me very hard to hit against one creature (maybe like a solo fight for instance) for an entire round. Now, as a warlord, that means I will never grant my allies anything cool. I feel like that is not really what I want the power for though. Anyway, what's your input? Thank you very much. Edit: Eh, sorry about the title typo :o |
| #2TimmehFeb 06, 2011 21:17:42 | I would say drop Harlequin style. The problem isn't Brash Strike Assault, it's the feat. +cha to AC is just too much for your character. |
| #3Plaguescarred1Feb 06, 2011 22:20:35 | Unfortunatly, Brash Assault doesn't force the enemy to make the attack against you, it simply give him the option to. Compare to Provoke Overextension, which says the target must make a basic attack against you, but a few Warlord do as you increase in level. Like Marks, the DM will need to decide if the enemy attacks you or not. Making yourself a better target is the first step if its what you want to achieve. Dropping Harlequin Style is the first step, Also, AC 26 at level 8 is a Defender-level AC and though it sounds like a good deal to have the highest AC around, it discourage enemies to take the chance to attack you if they are not forced to because the risk of missing is too great. Is there other Feats you could put into other good uses instead of boosting your Defenses ? Some Armor Proficiency Feats you might have taken ? I assume you have a magic Plate and Heavy Shield ? Did you got your Heavy Shield via Battlefront Leader ? You could drop it in favor of Combat Leader instead to have all your party get a sweet +2 to Initiative. To answer your question: It will be reasonable to make that atttack for any monsters capable of reasoning and thinking they have a fair chance of hitting you and enought health to withstand the incoming attack for doing so. |
| #4randyrabbitFeb 06, 2011 23:59:05 | Unfortunatly, Brash Assault doesn't force the enemy to make the attack against you, it simply give him the option to. Compare to Provoke Overextension, which says the target must make a basic attack against you, but a few Warlord do as you increase in level. Maybe I should consider droping the feat for something else. There are tons of feats I could use. As far as dropping the heavy sheild (yes I am battlefront leader), I am nervous about sacrificing my defenses. My party consists of an archer rouge (uses dual xbows), a pyro wizard with tons of rnage area bursts, a warlock, and a fighter. Outside of the defender and myself everyone else is paperish tigers and can't stand toe to toe in melee with much. If the defender was a warden it might be more possible but only marking one guy leaves a lot of room for the enemies to target the weaker ones. I'm afraid with a low AC I won't be as strong a melee character. However, if I drop harlequin style, it is still a good AC but now I'm a more hitable target. However, this is all player knowledge and even a creater in the game has character knowledge. How many creatures have the insight see through my sacrifice? How many have the intellegence to understand they're afraid and won't hit me as well (+5 Cha defense)? Anyway, I will take a look at it and discuss this with my DM. I hope he lets me change the feat. |
| #5Plaguescarred1Feb 07, 2011 0:29:44 | Yeah discuss with him. Low AC ? A magical Chain armor and a Light Shield would give you a decent AC. AC 26 is bit on the high end like i said. Defenders will average this, not Leaders. Now nothing wrong with that, its even better mostly, but if you think enemies are not taking enought risks to take a shot at you, here you have a reason why. But that's just for your At-Will. You'll eventually have Erncounter and Daily Powers who will force the enemy to attack. Do you have other Warlord Powers in the vein of Provoke Overextension to force the enemy to attack you ? You only have the Fighter who has a decent melee basic attack, so chances are you are already sticking close to him. It means you deal with Marked foes ? This may flirt with his Catch-22 already too. A Marked foe will not attack if he given the choice. But one forced to will be smacked back by the Fighter with 2 melee basic attacks, one granted by his Combat Challenge as an Immediate actuion because he attacks someone other than him and one granted by you as a Free action. Here you'd double the pleasure. :P |
| #6randyrabbitFeb 08, 2011 0:33:48 | Yeah discuss with him. I dont' know if my DM was rollin hot or what, but he was hitting my ac without too much trouble. I guess 50% of the time. I was surprised I know that much. I took a look at Provoke Overextension. I think it would be great for me if I was a bravua presence. I am an inspring presence and at the time I didn't think about that move too much because I didn't pay attention to the Must hit and think about it completely. I took join the crowd to help the wizard out but maybe I'll switch out the power for provoke over extension. I won't get the AC bonus, but 26 is already pretty high. Most of my powers give a bonus to damage or grant CA. I took lamb to the slaughter but realized it's a terrible power for my group. 2 ranged strikers and a ranged wizard who is kinda like a striker in his own right don't like to charge much. I instead changed it to Bastion of Defense. I need to find things that help me with just hte one melee fighter as much as possible. Thanks for your input though, it's been appreciated |
| #7CentauriFeb 08, 2011 8:43:58 | Brash Assault is a tricky power, and many people dislike it. I happen to love it. I don't think the designers really had a handle on it, though. Part of why people hate it is that it "requires" the DM to act "dumb" in order to let the player enjoy the power. It's somewhat difficult to think of situations in which the DM would want to take the attack, and even fewer if the player makes it harder for that attack to land. If the DM isn't "required" to attack, then it falls to the player to offer the DM deals he can't refuse. In order to do that - and this is why I love the power - the player actually has to play brashly. He or she has to make seemingly insane offers to the DM. The DM actually does have to be getting the better part of the exchange, and the player pretty much has to be convinced that the monster will miss, or his ally will get a critical, or something to make it all worth it - even when there's no guarantee. It's a bit of psychological warfare. The warlord offers better and better deals to the DM until he finds one that allows the party rogue to get a free attack on the monster. Eventually it will happen. If the rogue hits and the monster misses, what a coup - but the deal will have to be even better next time. If the rogue misses and the monster hits, which is probably more likely, well at least you can probably offer a worse deal next time. |
| #8RPJesusFeb 11, 2011 14:07:03 | I'd like to point out that Brash assault is the perfect example of D&D not being players vs. DM, but rather a form of cooperative storytelling. |
| #9CentauriFeb 13, 2011 0:10:22 | I'd like to point out that Brash assault is the perfect example of D&D not being players vs. DM, but rather a form of cooperative storytelling. Even if a game isn't "players vs. DM," all of the players at the table can still play tactically if that's what they prefer. Brash Assault can be used tactically, even if the DM doesn't want to give the PCs any undue advantage. It's a trickier power to use than, say, Twin Strike, but it doesn't require the DM to make bad choices for the sake of the story. |
| #10Black_EggFeb 16, 2011 17:46:27 | The OP may want to consider retraining their at-will power. If it is giving them trouble and they aren't even a Bravura Warlord, the gambling and frustration may not be worth it. |
| #11randyrabbitFeb 16, 2011 22:38:39 | That was excellent input guys. Thank you. I am deciding to retrain the feat and at-will after talking about it with the DM. However, something that came to me when considering centauri's paragrah about "playing brashly", I could see this as putting myself in combat advantage say, then use it. Now the DM has a +2 to the attack and might actually consider it. Are there other things one can do to give the DM better chances to hit (independent of lowering my current AC by switching armor or anything along that lines). Maybe in teamwork with a hexblade warlock (my warlock is switching to a melee warlock so I am reconsidering lamb to the slaughter, but probably not), a pyro wizard who uses all sorts of fire bursts, a fighter, and a dual xbow ranger. Thanks again. |
| #12CentauriFeb 16, 2011 22:48:11 | I am deciding to retrain the feat and at-will after talking about it with the DM. However, something that came to me when considering centauri's paragrah about "playing brashly", I could see this as putting myself in combat advantage say, then use it. Now the DM has a +2 to the attack and might actually consider it. The attack granted by Brash Assault already gives the enemy combat advantage. Are there other things one can do to give the DM better chances to hit (independent of lowering my current AC by switching armor or anything along that lines). Maybe in teamwork with a hexblade warlock (my warlock is switching to a melee warlock so I am reconsidering lamb to the slaughter, but probably not), a pyro wizard who uses all sorts of fire bursts, a fighter, and a dual xbow ranger. Sure. Arrange it so that the only character who can take the free basic attack is the wizard. You've got quite a problem there. Except for the wizard, the other PCs are really going to cause a problem for the enemy just with their basic attacks. You're going to have to offer the monster a pretty sweet deal in order for the DM to take the attack. It might work to help clear minions a little. Either the warlord hits and kills the minion, or the minion gets offered what might be its only opportunity to attack before it's killed. Other than that, risking an extra attack by your teammates is going to take a pretty good set up for the monsters. I'm talking, one more hit will kill you and if you die you'll be taking with you your last Inspiring Word while another player needs it. Sound brash enough? |
| #13Nibelung_ajrFeb 17, 2011 6:51:16 | As a DM, my rule of thumb for free attacks (and if the monster will ignore the defender's mark or not) is:
Ask your DM what is his modus operanti for his monsters. If he do not have one, them change out Brash Assault because you can't use it tactically. |
| #14raleelFeb 26, 2011 23:03:48 | I have a similar rule of thumb, although I also look at the type of monster. Animals and less intelligent monster will generally take the shot. more intelligent ones, particularly those that are battle-trained, probably not. Normally they won't take it a second time if they get whalloped by something if they do |