Me: Fey Feline (homebrew race) Paladin
Friend 1: Elf Bow Ranger
Friend 2: Half-Elf Infernal Warlock
Friend 3: Tiefling Rogue
We stand no chance, do we.
How do we fix?
Wow, has the game even started yet?
Everyone starts somewhere.
We are all level 1:
Me: Feye Feline (homebrew race) Paladin
Friend 1: Elf Bow Ranger
Friend 2: Half-Elf Infernal Warlock
Friend 3: Tiefling Rogue
We stand no chance, do we.
How do we fix?
Well, setting aside my intense dislike for homebrew cat-humanoids, here's what I see:
Pro
- Very high damage output. You can reliably count on taking out at least one monster per round.
- The rogue has a defender to use for flanking, so he should consistently get sneak attack damage.
Con
- Very little healing. You can bolster this a little bit if a couple of people take cleric/warlord multiclass feats, but I'd recommend keeping healing potions on hand for everyone, too.
- Very little crowd control. In a scratch-built adventure, this may not be much of a problem, since the DM can tilt things toward a few powerful monsters instead of lots of weak ones, but the party should be wary of being outnumbered.
- Very "swingy". The party will have excellent offense but low overall defense, since fully three-quarters of the group is squishy. If you win initiative and roll well on attacks and damage, even "tough" encounters will be a cakewalk; if you lose initiative or get a run of bad rolls, things will go pretty badly.
Essentially, this boils down to "be careful". If the DM knows the group and tailors his encounters a little bit, you should have fun, challenging sessions. If the DM is running a standard adventure with no changes, and the group isn't very careful about terrain, tactics, and escape routes... then you'll have the opportunity to roll up a more balanced group very soon.
Here's our weapon/armor choices:
Paladin: Dual Katars/Scale
Warlock: Staff/Cloth
Rogue: Shortsword and Shurikens/Chainmail
Ranger: Longbow/Leather
I think we can handle a small minion horde, or a big boss, but not much else.
Plus, I love me some katars.
Katars are one of my race's included skills, and I selected ambidextrous as my feat, so I'm sorta set for this.
Plus, I love me some katars.
Wait, what? You have an infernal-pact warlock in the party, which indicates 4e, but you also took Ambidexterity, which hasn't been around since 3.0. Hopefully you mean you have Two-weapon Fighting.
In any case, I think you may be in trouble. My earlier comments were based on the assumption that paladin meant plate and heavy shield, giving you AC 20--which is quite important in a group with no other tank. Setting aside roleplaying issues for the moment, you're playing a lightly-armored defender in a party with no other defenders and no leader. That's not a good recipe.
Wait, what? You have an infernal-pact warlock in the party, which indicates 4e, but you also took Ambidexterity, which hasn't been around since 3.0. Hopefully you mean you have Two-weapon Fighting.
In any case, I think you may be in trouble. My earlier comments were based on the assumption that paladin meant plate and heavy shield, giving you AC 20--which is quite important in a group with no other tank. Setting aside roleplaying issues for the moment, you're playing a lightly-armored defender in a party with no other defenders and no leader. That's not a good recipe.
No, I mean we made an Ambidextrous feat.
:
:Hehe, we are screwed.
Hehe, we are screwed.
I just went and looked more carefully at your party summary. The whole group's AC is in the gutter, for no particular reason. The rogue is especially bad: chainmail is a bad choice for rogues, period. Unless his Dexterity is 15 or lower AND he never plans to increase it, it's a waste of a feat--and I really, really hope you don't have to play with someone dumb enough to build a character with a +2 bonus in his primary attack stat.
I'm also very curious what the homebrew Ambidexterity feat does, but I think my head might explode if you tell me.
...so yeah, in other words, you're screwed. I honestly recommend scrapping the current party and building a new one, with some attention to things a party actually needs--like healing, and maybe someone who can take a hit (and hopefully a rogue who doesn't spend feats to give himself a worse AC).
This WILL require your DM to play the same way however. If he's running monsters for the theory-crafters who sit around crunching numbers all day then you're going to be toast.
"Why" does the rogue wear chainmail? Perhaps he's going to do some multi-classing later on and wants to portray a "Pit Fighter Paragon" kind of attacker that adds a little extra punch in his scum bag fighting style?
The problem I do see, unfortunately, is your house-ruled cat pally. You "seem" to be taking Feats that are designed to be "Min/Max DMG, Defense, etc." with home-brew ambidexterity and what not instead of having your character be a little more story based.
Why is this? Because any player can go walking around with two katars.. but you can only use 1 per an attack. So you didn't take this just for the story. For you, I'd scrap the whole ambidexterity thing.. take Two-Weapon Fighting and Defense. This will give you mild bonuses (still nice ones though) and you'll be able to keep your theme.
OR, you can play the game like a Story telling game.. and not concern yourself so much with "Perfect Party Design" or "Min/Max DMG, Defense, etc."
This WILL require your DM to play the same way however. If he's running monsters for the theory-crafters who sit around crunching numbers all day then you're going to be toast.
"Why" does the rogue wear chainmail? Perhaps he's going to do some multi-classing later on and wants to portray a "Pit Fighter Paragon" kind of attacker that adds a little extra punch in his scum bag fighting style?
The problem I do see, unfortunately, is your house-ruled cat pally. You "seem" to be taking Feats that are designed to be "Min/Max DMG, Defense, etc." with home-brew ambidexterity and what not instead of having your character be a little more story based.
Why is this? Because any player can go walking around with two katars.. but you can only use 1 per an attack. So you didn't take this just for the story. For you, I'd scrap the whole ambidexterity thing.. take Two-Weapon Fighting and Defense. This will give you mild bonuses (still nice ones though) and you'll be able to keep your theme.
Elitist much? I think it's very clear...no offense instead to the OP and his party, that his group is far from the "perfect party design type" I would think this much would be evident by the fact more or less everyone has said a. this party sucks, and b. the poster made the post because this isn't a perfect party. Furthermore, you have a rogue who has a horrible defense, a paladin who is opting not to have a higher defense for the sake of flavor...I might be going out on a limb and saying it's just for flavor, but I'd think if it was for power he'd choose better weapons to dual wield. Personally I think it's more of a dualwielding is super sweet, daggers look cool approach...and again, I mean no offense because I've just described one of my favorite type of builds :D
You're also implying that the person is more or less a powergamer who doesn't care at all about the story, which in this particular thread seems to make even less sense then usual because, again no offense to the OP, but your character is probably the least optimized next to the chain mail rogue...and yeah, he could go around with two katars only using one, but I think the whole entire point of having two is because he likes two weapon fighting, even though in this case it's the least powerful, and technically speaking less wise choice to make, he's doing it because that's the type of character he wants.
Now, even if this was a "powergamed" party, it in no way shape or form implies that they don't care about the story, which is something that you seem to be hinting at. I really hate the belief that just because a character is good means that the person behind it has no idea how to roleplay at all.
"Oh, what's that...you're a pally 5/cleric 5/templar 2 with vengence domain and a high charisma and get to smite 3 times per day, too bad you can't rp worth sh*t unlike billy, the fighter with 12 strength, 8 dex, 10 con, 14 everything else who managed to overcome being born with a lame arm and leg and get into the military and follow in his fathers footsteps"
...obviously a 3.5 example since I've never played 4e, but come on! Yeah, there are obviously some people that are more into the powergaming aspect as opposed to the rp aspect...in 3.5 these are usually the people with like 8 different classes just to get the initial benefits of low level prcs and have the weirdest feat selection, but those are the extreme cases, this is just a guy who's worried about the fact that his party has a very low defense for average and no healing/crowd control capabilities to back it up...if anything, it looks like they're going with more of a story/rp approach towards their characters then a "min maxer" type of approach otherwise they wouldn't have a chainmail wielding rogue and a paladin going with a sword and shield style...and probably some healer/crowd controller, he's simply asking if this "weak" (again, no offense to the OP) party has a chance or if they're just going to get tpk'd making their session a waste and clearly no fun to anybody.
Now then...mini rant aside, back to the OP. Yeah, your party is going to be in a bit of a bind...the biggest advantage you have is you can deal damage fast so that's really going to be what you guys have to focus on in combat. On top of that, you have low defense so if a battle does get dragged out it's going to be rather...messy. Healing, while an issue, shouldn't be too big of a deal...generally speaking if a dm sees that a party is lacking a healing type they'll be a bit more inclined to drop a few healing potions for loot, or at the very least you'll have some gold to invest in them. Since you all have rather low defenses, you're going to have to use terrain to the best of your advantage...try and position yourselves so enemies are just out of reach while you guys have a round or two to rain down all your damage onto another enemy.
It can work, again I may be ignorant in the ways of 4e, but I've seen parties with similar problems in 3.5 and it's doable. I'd mention your concerns to the dm, because if he's the type who likes running life or death combat scenario's then it's likely at least one of you is going to have to change around their concept. Just make sure he is aware of the party limitations before hand and tell him that you're all attached to your characters and would rather not have to change just for the sake of being able to survive and play. Maybe see about hiring a npc healing type? A crowd controller may work but with the low defense of everyone I think you might appreciate having the heals tossed at you since you'll still be able to dish out alot of damage.
It can work, again I may be ignorant in the ways of 4e, but I've seen parties with similar problems in 3.5 and it's doable.
The real problem is going to be that monsters deal a lot more damage in 4e--because the assumption is that you'll have at least one leader-type, who can throw down 2 heals per combat. The equivalent in healing potions burns through 100gp per fight, which is unfeasible unless the DM provides them much more cheaply than normal.
And while I totally agree with the first section of your post, I would like to point out that it can be boiled down to "Hey, Nox: Stormwind Fallacy much?"
All I was trying to get across was that
1) If the DM is a story based DM. Then your parties bonuses wouldn't matter as much. The Two-Weapon Fighting in 4th Edition offers a +1 to DMG. If the STORY were so important.. this could be seen as using the second Katar to make your attack even more deadly.
2) If the DM is a mechanics based DM. You had best rethink your choices, because they are not optimized.
No, I don't think optimized = lack of rping ability. Nor do I think a fighter with 10 Str means the person is a master thespian (though, they might want to be to get out of the adventure alive, they're going to need "something".).
However.. I have seen number crunchers play. It isn't the style of game I'm interested in. Nor, is the story-heavy style I use, interesting to everyone. Some people just don't care about the moral consequences of killing the goblins in the cave.. they just want the loot. Both are FINE (because I guess I have to say it.). But, how this party is going to do.. depends on which style the DM is going for.
We are all level 1:
Me: Fey Feline (homebrew race) Paladin
Friend 1: Elf Bow Ranger
Friend 2: Half-Elf Infernal Warlock
Friend 3: Tiefling Rogue
We stand no chance, do we.
How do we fix?
You are fine. You will have to beef up your defenses somewhat so you can keep going without losing too much HP, but you should be fine.
Yes they had a real tough time of it. Even with all of their marking capabilities, they were hardly surviving an encounter without 2 or more on the ground.
So in short, there is a guy who must first activate an ability before being good at either melee or spellcasting, another who drops dead nearly all the time because he stays too close to the fight, and a third guy who plays a character that hardly makes use of his prime ability. Despite this, I have thrown a horde of enemies at them that were 10 levels lower (something like a few dozen dozen, with a dozen or so each round) and villains who, CR-wise, were more powerful than them (and all characters had a racial LA of 1 or 2, too), and they have beaten them. Now this may be a 3.5 game, but if those three under-optimized fellows can handle themselves with a little bit of creative thinking and cooperation, four of you sure as hell can.
Besides, you are only level 1 now. There's a long road ahead of you that you can use to get better.
So in short, there is a guy who must first activate an ability before being good at either melee or spellcasting, another who drops dead nearly all the time because he stays too close to the fight, and a third guy who plays a character that hardly makes use of his prime ability. Despite this, I have thrown a horde of enemies at them that were 10 levels lower (something like a few dozen dozen, with a dozen or so each round) and villains who, CR-wise, were more powerful than them (and all characters had a racial LA of 1 or 2, too), and they have beaten them. Now this may be a 3.5 game, but if those three under-optimized fellows can handle themselves with a little bit of creative thinking and cooperation, four of you sure as hell can.
A few items: first, your party annoys me. There's playing against type, which has interesting RP consequences, and then there's making absurd characters just for the heck of it. How does a barbarian who prioritizes intelligence and charisma survive to become a hero? Why would anyone hang around with him when he's not very good at the only thing he's supposed to be good at? Why is he even a member of the barbarian class, when there are choices that more closely fit the PC's style? You choose a concept and then pick mechanics to fit, and that way you get characters that actually make sense.
(/rant)
Second, a horde of very low-CR monsters aren't actually much of a challenge, because they hit so seldom (that's why the XP table in the DMG doesn't factor in enemies that are significantly lower CR than the PCs' level). Likewise, any party should be able to handle a single monster at up to CR + 4, so it's not especially surprising that even a poorly-built party survived that encounter. In fact, more encounters at CR to CR +2 is probably what they need.
Third, (and I don't mean to belabor this point) 4e is a different game. A 1st-level cleric in 3.5 has two or three cure light wounds spells per day, and the game is designed so as to let him cast interesting spells instead. A party can skate by with a healing potion for the up-front types every couple of encounters, along with frequent rests. A 1st-level cleric in 4e has at least two heals per encounter, and every character has a limited self-healing option to boot, and it's often still not enough. In a well-balanced party, I recently lost a fighter because four heals from the cleric wasn't enough to keep up with the damage from the level-appropriate monsters that we were facing.
None of this is to say that the OP can't muddle through with a party that includes no healing, no buffing, and no area attacks. If the DM is flexible and creative, and the players are very smart about their tactics and resource management, they can get through a couple of encounters a day. I'm sure it will be a memorable game for everyone no matter how it turns out. But none of that mitigates the fact that the OP's party is essentially a glass cannon, and they stand a good chance of getting smashed the first time they get hit hard.
I think I've made a number of constructive suggestions in this thread: pick up an NPC healer, make sure the DM is fine with throwing in some extra healing potions, be careful with crowds, make sure you have an escape route. But parallels to 3.5 aren't much more valid than parallels to Shadowrun or Mechwarrior. 4e is a different game, with very different requirements for what a party needs to be good at, and there's no way around the fact that the OP's party will indeed have a very tough time of it.
The rogue in chainmail is not the way I would go with it. Since dex is his attack stat he's likely going to want that as high as possible and he'll easily surpass the AC of chain with just leathers by Paragon Tier, if not before then or even at character creation. I have to assume there's a reasoning behind it, but it's definitely a sub-optimal choice that will only hinder the character's life expectancy.
I'm curious why the warlock is in cloth as well. This time it's not exactly like he spent a feat to use it, he could just walk down to the corner store and slip on some leathers.
The ranger is fine (unless he's decided to also do something weird and is putting all his points in Int :P) so that brings us to the paladin. With enough feats you will eventually have the stats of scale and a light shield, assuming you go down the Two-weapon fighting path. You won't be spectacular at defense, but if you're able to stay in decent magic gear you will probably do alright. However, unless you plan to multiclass into a ranger or tempest build, I don't really see a reason to dual-weild them. And I can think of no reason not to start out with a shield in your offhand and get that bonus right away. You can still chop at people with your mainhand katar - which is a pretty nifty weapon - and fill your role as the much needed defender.
Aside from that you have almost no AoE or crowd control and your healing potential is limited, at best. As some have said you could help this with some multiclassing later, but it's going to be a hard fight most of the way that isn't being made easier by your bizarre gear choices.
Second, a horde of very low-CR monsters aren't actually much of a challenge, because they hit so seldom (that's why the XP table in the DMG doesn't factor in enemies that are significantly lower CR than the PCs' level). Likewise, any party should be able to handle a single monster at up to CR + 4, so it's not especially surprising that even a poorly-built party survived that encounter. In fact, more encounters at CR to CR +2 is probably what they need.
*shrug* Don't care about that jazz, I just do things my way and they're going fine. Those were just two examples out of the few dozen that have come along. The players made excellent use of resources, so of course they survived it and got what they deserved in the end.
Third, (and I don't mean to belabor this point) 4e is a different game.
Wow, you appear to me as the first pro-4e player to say that. I congratulate you.
A 1st-level cleric in 3.5 has two or three cure light wounds spells per day, and the game is designed so as to let him cast interesting spells instead. A party can skate by with a healing potion for the up-front types every couple of encounters, along with frequent rests. A 1st-level cleric in 4e has at least two heals per encounter, and every character has a limited self-healing option to boot, and it's often still not enough. In a well-balanced party, I recently lost a fighter because four heals from the cleric wasn't enough to keep up with the damage from the level-appropriate monsters that we were facing.
If that is the case, either a healer is very much needed in this here party, or -- not to belittle you and your party -- your party didn't do all too great with what they had.
OR.
You could sit around the table with the other players and the DM and cook up a new party of characters that DOES work out for you.
So, lemme get this straight:
Rogue needs leather
Warlock needs leather and ability to nuke like hell
Ranger is good
Pally needs Plate, Dual-Weapon style (can you people explain this? I don't have the PHB on me) or a class change (I'm big on the RPing and the katars, and I want him as a Paladin)
Explaining:
The rogue wanted chainmail because he's... "kinda stupid" and thinks chinmail>leather because it's metal
Warlock used his feat on something
Ranger is normal
I wanted scale (at most), katarsX2, and the ability to be kinda more freely mobile than I AM TANK I CRUSH THINGS AND WITH MY ARMOR AND WEAPONS I WEIGH 372lb FEAR ME.
I wanted: I do lotsa damage quickly, take a hit or two, then do more speedy damage.
Wow, big reaction.
So, lemme get this straight:
Rogue needs leather
Warlock needs leather and ability to nuke like hell
Ranger is good
Pally needs Plate, Dual-Weapon style (can you people explain this? I don't have the PHB on me) or a class change (I'm big on the RPing and the katars, and I want him as a Paladin)
Explaining:
The rogue wanted chainmail because he's... "kinda stupid" and thinks chinmail>leather because it's metal
Warlock used his feat on something
Ranger is normal
I wanted scale (at most), katarsX2, and the ability to be kinda more freely mobile than I AM TANK I CRUSH THINGS AND WITH MY ARMOR AND WEAPONS I WEIGH 372lb FEAR ME.
I wanted: I do lotsa damage quickly, take a hit or two, then do more speedy damage.
You should really look at the tempest fighter in Martial Power. Basically it is a two weapon fighter that uses chain mail or lower armor well. You could be a tempest fighter with multiclass paladin or cleric, and call yourself a paladin in game.
That sounds perfect.
Any excerpts to read?
And also, any help on the Rogue?
Also, I finished poting the Fey Feline, it's in Homebrew rite now.
Also, what do you mean the warlock spent a feat on something? isn't Leather a free profeciency with the class. Also, a staff is not a good option, it is not an impliment and they will need a free have once he gets an impliment to bost his attacks.
"We're here to play basketball."
"OK, great, where's the ball."
"Here it is."
"This isn't a basketball, its a beachball."
"Everyone uses a basketball to play basketball. We wanted to be unique."
"But it won't even fit in the hoop!"
"Don't be a hater."
I can imagine your group in a different game:
"We're here to play basketball."
"OK, great, where's the ball."
"Here it is."
"This isn't a basketball, its a beachball."
"Everyone uses a basketball to play basketball. We wanted to be unique."
"But it won't even fit in the hoop!"
"Don't be a hater."
We wanted to be normal!
And then our characters happened.
In our defence, the Ranger's normal, and the Paladin is really just a closet Rogue or Fighter!
IDK why, but I like him more as a Pally.
Suggestions welcome.
NOTE: These lack the racial powers, so I had to use the Katar feat.
Silly glitch.
FIGHTER:
Stripes Shadowpaw
Male Fey Feline Fighter
Level 1
Good (Chaotic)
Representing Davis Permann
Strength 15 (+2)
Constitution 15 (+2)
Dexterity 13 (+1)
Intelligence 10 (+0)
Wisdom 12 (+1)
Charisma 18 (+4)
Height: 6' 0"
Weight: 115 lb
Skin:
Eyes:
Hair:
Maximum Hit Points: 30
Bloodied: 15
Surge Value: 7
Surges / Day: 11 [includes constitution modifier]
Size: Medium
Speed: 5 squares [includes armor penalty]
Vision: Low-light
Initiative: 1d20 +1 = + 1 [dexterity]
Base Strength Attack: 1d20 +2 = + 2 [strength]
Base Dexterity Attack: 1d20 +1 = + 1 [dexterity]
Base Constitution Attack: 1d20 +2 = + 2 [constitution]
Base Intelligence Attack: 1d20 +0 = + 0 [intelligence]
Base Wisdom Attack: 1d20 +1 = + 1 [wisdom]
Base Charisma Attack: 1d20 +4 = + 4 [charisma]
Armor Class: 17 = 10 + 7 [scale]
Fortitude Defense: 14 = 10 + 2 [fighter] + 2 [constitution]
Reflex Defense: 11 = 10 + 1 [dexterity]
Will Defense: 14 = 10 + 4 [charisma]
Armor: Scale (45 lb)
Shield: None
Attacks:
Unarmed Melee: +2 [base strength attack] vs AC; damage 1[W]=1d4+2 [strength]
Katar: +5 vs AC [+2 strength] [+3 proficiency]; damage 1[W]=1d6+2 [strength] 1 lb (Light blade); usable off-hand; high crit
Cleave +2w [base strength attack] vs AC
Sure Strike +4w [base strength attack+2] vs AC
Spinning Sweep +2w [base strength attack] vs AC
Comeback Strike +2w [base strength attack] vs AC
w Weapon-based power. Apply adjustments for proficiency, situation, feats, magic, etc.
Base Saving Throw: d20 vs 10
Encumberance 4e
Normal Load:
Heavy Load:
Maximum Drag Load
150 lb.
300 lb.
750 lb.
Encumberance 3.5
Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
66 lb. or less
67-133 lb.
134-200 lb.
200 lb.
400 lb.
1000 lb.
Languages: Common; Elven;
Skills:
Acrobatics: +3 = 1 [dexterity] + 2 [Fey Feline]
Arcana: +0 = 0 [intelligence]
Athletics: +7 = 2 [strength] + 5 [class training]
Bluff: +4 = 4 [charisma]
Diplomacy: +4 = 4 [charisma]
Dungeoneering: +1 = 1 [wisdom]
Endurance: +7 = 2 [constitution] + 5 [class training]
Heal: +1 = 1 [wisdom]
History: +0 = 0 [intelligence]
Insight: +1 = 1 [wisdom]
Intimidate: +9 = 4 [charisma] + 5 [class training]
Nature: +3 = 1 [wisdom] + 2 [Fey Feline]
Perception: +1 = 1 [wisdom]
Religion: +0 = 0 [intelligence]
Stealth: +1 = 1 [dexterity]
Streetwise: +4 = 4 [charisma]
Thievery: +1 = 1 [dexterity]
Feats:
Weapon Proficiency -- Katar
At-Will:
Basic Melee Attack: By weapon, damage 1[W]+2 [strength]
Basic Ranged Attack: By weapon, damage 1[W]+1 [dexterity]
Bull Rush: +2 [base strength attack] vs fortitude
Grab: +2 [base strength attack] vs reflex
Move grabbed target: +2 [base strength attack] vs fortitude
Escape: +3 [acrobatics] vs reflex / +7 [athletics] vs fortitude
Cleave [Level 1]
Sure Strike [Level 1]
Other Standard Actions: Administer a potion; Aid another; Charge [+1 to basic melee attack or bull rush]; Coup de grace; Equip / stow shield; Ready an action; Total defense; Sustain standard action; Some skills during combat (i.e., Acrobatics -- fast escape; Bluff, Heal -- first aid, Intimidate, Perception -- active, Thievery depending on circumstances)
Other Move Actions: Crawl; Run [speed 7]; Stand up; Shift; Squeeze; Walk; may include some skills during combat (i.e., Acrobatics, Athletics)
Other Minor Actions: Draw / sheathe weapon; Drink a potion; Drop prone; Load a crossbow; Open / close a door; Pick up an item; Retrieve / stow an item; Sustain minor action; Some skills during combat (i.e., Insight)
Other Immediate Action: Readied action
Other Opportunity Action: Opportunity attack
Other Free Actions: Drop held items; End a grab; Talk
Other Non-Actions: Delay; Endurance checks; Insight to counter Bluff; Knowledge checks; Perception -- passive
Short rest: Healing surges as available
Five minutes: Normal escape from restraints (Acrobatics)
One hour: Forage; Streetwise check
Encounter Powers:
Second Wind
Spend an Action Point [free action, not in surprise round]
Racial Ability [Fey Feline] (?)
Spinning Sweep [Level 1]
Daily Powers:
Comeback Strike [Level 1][reliable]
Fey Feline: Describe below:
Fighter
Combat Challenge
Combat Superiority
This fighter chose the tempest technique [free Two Weapon Defense feat, NOT listed above; remember the +1 AC and reflex bonuses when holding a weapon in each hand.]
Stripes Shadowpaw's Equipment:
46 lb
2 lb
5 lb
4 lb
2 lb
5 lb
1 lb
10 lb
10 lb
2 lb
4 lb
_____
91 lb Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above)
Backpack
Bedroll
Flint and steel
Grappling hook
Hammer
Pitons x10
Pouch (belt) x1
Rations (1 day) x10
Rope (50', hempen) x1
Sunrods x2
Waterskins x1
Total
Also...
Dual Katars
Magic items:
Weapon:
Weapon:
Weapon:
Weapon:
Armor:
Shield:
Arms:
Feet:
Hands:
Head:
Neck:
Ring:
Ring:
Waist:
Resistances:
Action Point Tally:
Daily Item Powers Per Day: Heroic Tier Milestones: / / /
Death Saving Throw Failures:
More about Stripes Shadowpaw:
Stripes as a Fighter.
PALADIN:
Stripes Shadepaw
Male Fey Feline Paladin
Level 1
Good (Chaotic)
Representing Davis Permann
Strength 12 (+1)
Constitution 15 (+2)
Dexterity 12 (+1)
Intelligence 11 (+0)
Wisdom 15 (+2)
Charisma 18 (+4)
Height: 6' 0"
Weight: 115 lb
Skin:
Eyes: Green
Hair: Blond; Straight
Maximum Hit Points: 30
Bloodied: 15
Surge Value: 7
Surges / Day: 12 [includes constitution modifier]
Size: Medium
Speed: 5 squares [includes armor penalty]
Vision: Low-light
Initiative: 1d20 +1 = + 1 [dexterity]
Base Strength Attack: 1d20 +1 = + 1 [strength]
Base Dexterity Attack: 1d20 +1 = + 1 [dexterity]
Base Constitution Attack: 1d20 +2 = + 2 [constitution]
Base Intelligence Attack: 1d20 +0 = + 0 [intelligence]
Base Wisdom Attack: 1d20 +2 = + 2 [wisdom]
Base Charisma Attack: 1d20 +4 = + 4 [charisma]
Armor Class: 17 = 10 + 7 [scale]
Fortitude Defense: 13 = 10 + 1 [paladin] + 2 [constitution]
Reflex Defense: 12 = 10 + 1 [paladin] + 1 [dexterity]
Will Defense: 15 = 10 + 1 [paladin] + 4 [charisma]
Armor: Scale (45 lb)
Shield: None
Attacks:
Unarmed Melee: +1 [base strength attack] vs AC; damage 1[W]=1d4+1 [strength]
Katar: +4 vs AC [+1 strength] [+3 proficiency]; damage 1[W]=1d6+1 [strength] 1 lb (Light blade); usable off-hand; high crit
Bolstering Strike +4w [base charisma attack] vs AC
Enfeebling Strike +4w [base charisma attack] vs AC
Fearsome Smite +4w [base charisma attack] vs AC
Radiant Delirium +4i [base charisma attack] vs reflex
w Weapon-based power. Apply adjustments for proficiency, situation, feats, magic, etc.
i Implement-usable power. Apply a bonus as appropriate.
Base Saving Throw: d20 vs 10
Encumberance 4e
Normal Load:
Heavy Load:
Maximum Drag Load
120 lb.
240 lb.
600 lb.
Encumberance 3.5
Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
43 lb. or less
44-86 lb.
87-130 lb.
130 lb.
260 lb.
650 lb.
Languages: Common; (? 1 more)
Skills:
Acrobatics: +3 = 1 [dexterity] + 2 [Fey Feline]
Arcana: +0 = 0 [intelligence]
Athletics: +1 = 1 [strength]
Bluff: +4 = 4 [charisma]
Diplomacy: +4 = 4 [charisma]
Dungeoneering: +2 = 2 [wisdom]
Endurance: +2 = 2 [constitution]
Heal: +2 = 2 [wisdom]
History: +5 = 0 [intelligence] + 5 [class training]
Insight: +7 = 2 [wisdom] + 5 [class training]
Intimidate: +9 = 4 [charisma] + 5 [class training]
Nature: +4 = 2 [wisdom] + 2 [Fey Feline]
Perception: +2 = 2 [wisdom]
Religion: +5 = 0 [intelligence] + 5 [class training]
Stealth: +1 = 1 [dexterity]
Streetwise: +4 = 4 [charisma]
Thievery: +1 = 1 [dexterity]
Feats:
Weapon Proficiency -- Katar
At-Will:
Basic Melee Attack: By weapon, damage 1[W]+1 [strength]
Basic Ranged Attack: By weapon, damage 1[W]+1 [dexterity]
Bull Rush: +1 [base strength attack] vs fortitude
Grab: +1 [base strength attack] vs reflex
Move grabbed target: +1 [base strength attack] vs fortitude
Escape: +3 [acrobatics] vs reflex / +1 [athletics] vs fortitude
Divine Challenge [Paladin][minor action]
Lay On Hands [Paladin][minor action][2/day]
Bolstering Strike [Level 1]
Enfeebling Strike [Level 1]
Other Standard Actions: Administer a potion; Aid another; Charge [+1 to basic melee attack or bull rush]; Coup de grace; Equip / stow shield; Ready an action; Total defense; Sustain standard action; Some skills during combat (i.e., Acrobatics -- fast escape; Bluff, Heal -- first aid, Intimidate, Perception -- active, Thievery depending on circumstances)
Other Move Actions: Crawl; Run [speed 7]; Stand up; Shift; Squeeze; Walk; may include some skills during combat (i.e., Acrobatics, Athletics)
Other Minor Actions: Draw / sheathe weapon; Drink a potion; Drop prone; Load a crossbow; Open / close a door; Pick up an item; Retrieve / stow an item; Sustain minor action; Some skills during combat (i.e., Insight)
Other Immediate Action: Readied action
Other Opportunity Action: Opportunity attack
Other Free Actions: Drop held items; End a grab; Talk
Other Non-Actions: Delay; Endurance checks; Insight to counter Bluff; Knowledge checks; Perception -- passive
Short rest: Healing surges as available
Five minutes: Normal escape from restraints (Acrobatics)
One hour: Forage; Streetwise check
Encounter Powers:
Second Wind
Spend an Action Point [free action, not in surprise round]
Racial Ability [Fey Feline] (?)
Channel Divinity
Divine Mettle [minor action]
Divine Strength [minor action]
Fearsome Smite [Level 1]
Daily Powers:
Radiant Delirium [Level 1]
Fey Feline: Describe below:
Paladin
Channel Divinity -- Divine Strength
Channel Divinity -- Divine Mettle
Divine Challenge
Lay On Hands
Stripes Shadepaw's Equipment:
46 lb
2 lb
5 lb
1 lb
10 lb
10 lb
2 lb
4 lb
_____
80 lb Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above)
Backpack
Bedroll
Flint and steel
Pouch (belt) x1
Rations (1 day) x10
Rope (50', hempen) x1
Sunrods x2
Waterskins x1
Total
Also...
Dual Katars
Magic items:
Weapon:
Weapon:
Weapon:
Weapon:
Armor:
Shield:
Arms:
Feet:
Hands:
Head:
Neck:
Ring:
Ring:
Waist:
Resistances:
Action Point Tally:
Daily Item Powers Per Day: Heroic Tier Milestones: / / /
Death Saving Throw Failures:
More about Stripes Shadepaw:
Stripes as a Pally.
Firstly, are you playing 3.5 or 4.0? If your playing 3.5, your low on healing, but that is okay. get the party to save up for some healing items. you can use a cure light wounds wand as a pally and the party should be able to afford one if everyone pitches in for it. Fight as a group not as indaviduals. set the thief up for his sneak attacks, use bolas and tanglefoot bags to control the battlefield, and caltrops to stop baddies from charging your ranged attackers. Also, help out the local temples for low or no charge. a shiny new sword might seem nice, but befrending the clerics and healers of a temple of pelor is infinately more useful (and can have some fun RP implements).
If your playing 4.0, take care when using your healing abilities (surges?). Try not to just use them all up too fast. Befriending a temple couldn't hurt either. I'm not too familiar with 4.0, but having everyone target the biggest threat in combat and eliminating that first is sound tactics. try to use any terrain to your advantage. Again, pool some cash to buy some emergancy healing items. poison antidote just in case the thief sets off a trap, a few healing potions in case someone is knocked out, that sort of thing. Basicly, a first aid kit, D&D style. See if your DM is okay with alowing you to set up an ambush every now and again. Heroicly facing down a charging tribe of orcs is one thing, but luring them into charging you in a choke point that you put a tripwire in can swing the tide of the battle.
Either way, you'll be fine. Work as a team, keep your wits, and look out for each other.
If you like him as a pally, be a pally. Despite what some of us might appear to be saying there's no argument we can make that trumps your desire to play the character you want. In fact, I'd actually recommend the pally to you, since you will at least get some healing out of him. However...
Both your fighter and pally build have very low strength. You can counter that somewhat with power selection with the pally, which I notice you're already doing, but your basic attacks for charging or Opportunity will miss fairly often. I am loathe to play a fighter with less than +3 str, but you might be able to get away with it. He's certainly a pretty kitty.
Pally needs Plate, Dual-Weapon style (can you people explain this? I don't have the PHB on me)
Dual-Weapon style is a series of feats you can take to improve your dual-wielding ability. They require a dex of 13, which you're just shy of. The first, Two-Weapon Fighting, gives you +1 to damage when dual-wielding. The second, Two-Weapon Defense, gives you a +1 AC. If you really don't want a shield, it's something to look into. As for plate vs scale, I agree that it's hard to accept the skill penalties.
Also, what do you mean the warlock spent a feat on something? isn't Leather a free profeciency with the class. Also, a staff is not a good option, it is not an impliment and they will need a free have once he gets an impliment to bost his attacks.
This guy has some good points. The warlock class gets leather free and there aren't any penalties on it, so there really doesn't seem to be a reason not to have it. If he still wants to wear a dress he can just have it under his jerkin. The staff is also not an implement. Our group has decided you could still hold the staff, for walking purposes, in one hand while using something else in the other, but if he wants to attack with it he'll likely have some troubles later on.
Your party's not all doom and gloom though. It'll be tough, but as long as you're having fun and the DM takes your group's weaknesses into account you should do fine. And really, fun is the most important thing.
Also, rogue might become a Wizard.
Lord, I hope not.
Turn 2: Paladin falls dead. Everyone else finished off the enemies.
Turn 3: Loot and do evil!
Turn 4: Revive the Paladin.
I'm totally multiclassing into two-handed fighter.
Also, rogue might become a Wizard.
Lord, I hope not.
Why would the rogue being a wizard instead be bad?
Your party already has 2 strikers (plus a defender playing at one), a Wizard would give your party some much needed varience and more tactical options in combat. Ideally a Warlord would be best probably, but a Wizard would help just the same.
Also Paladin's really need a decent(16+) strength score to be effective in combat, bonuses to hit are very rare in 4e, take what you can get. Yes cha and Wis are also important for paladins (I would suggest a 14+ in Wis and 12-13 in Cha to start with remaining points in Con) but Str is more so.
You are really trying to do too much with this character, dual wielding and being an effective paladin requires 5 decent stats (all but Int) and there just isn't points for it. If you really want to dual wield and be a paladin, make a tempest fighter who dual-wields katars (or short swords and describe them as katars) and take the multiclass Paladin or Cleric feat, it's less stat dependant (3 stats).
Don't get caught up in the name too much, think of what you actually want your character to be able to do i(nstead of thinking of what class you want to be) and pick the class(es) that best embodies that.
To me it sounds like a dual-weilding ranger with the cleric multiclass would fit what you're trying to do well. You could still call him a paladin, the mechanics of your character have nothing to do with the Roleplaying flavour you use, that's all up to you.
I also noticed that on your Tempest Fighter build, you chose not to take Dual Strike, which is the real perk of the Tempest fighter.
If you really want to, talk to your DM and see if you can homebrew a power or two, something real simple, around two-weapon fighting. Something like this maybe:
Shield of Sacraficing
Your weapons glow and drink the blood of your enemies as a sacrifice to your god. In return you are protected from their retribution.
Level 1 At-Will
Keywords * Melee, Radiant
Target: One creature
Attacks: 2 attacks Str vs. AC (one off-hand and one main)
Damage: Cha Radiant damage each.
Special: If you hit with both attacks your gain a +1 Divine bonus to AC and your Defenses until the beginning of your next turn.
Aside from that, I concur that either a Tempest Fighter or TWF Ranger with Multi-classed Cleric powers whom you dub 'Paladin' would work for flavor.
Rogue is now rolling a Wizard.
Warlock is in Leather.
Ranger still carries the party.
I'm DMing, so I haven't played my Pally yet.
My solution?
homebrewhomebrewhomebrew.
so yeah we now have our:
-archer ranger
-warlock
-wizard
-cleric
the cleric was using the rogue and the rogue was using the warlock and...its all too complicated. anyway-i think were pretty sorted out and when each of us is dming we should still have a pretty balanced party with a pally coming in.
I have Katars (2d6 + Charisma modifier)
Thats....
16 damage on a melee roll max.
We do decent damage on level 1 Goblin shankers.
We'll be fine, but Colin should multiclass wizard, and Devil should multiclass Cleric.
dude why dont you just take up the roll (HAHA PUN INTENDED) of a pally and actually be a defender instead of a half-assed rogue-mobile
*Role.
Spell correctly, damnit.
And anyways, because Katars are my races profeciency, they are cool, and I like being able to kick some ass AND weigh less than 3000lb worth of armor.
UH-OH! BUSTED!!!
Look dude: play whatever you want. Obviously nobody is going to convince you that the character is seriously sub-par, but thats ok. Paladins do not run arround the battle like strikers do thems the facts. They take up positions to slow down the enemy forces on the way to the squishies.
This "Cat Paladin" sounds like a rogue on steroids.
THANK YOU! this is what we have been trying to tell him, but he wont go back to his original character who was actually a pally.
If you're really stuck on pally though... lets just say if I was adventuring with you as soon as you fell in battle I would scream "I CAN'T WORK WITH THIS GUY!" and make for the nearest safe place. Of course, if by some miracle you can do well in combat than that would never need to occur
That last bit sounded a bit harsh.. I'm sure it won't take a MIRACLE but you know... Best of luck whatever you choose dude, just don't get really frustrated when you feel the effects of playing COMPLETELY against type is all I can say.
I mean, it takes you 5 feats together, human aside that's everything you get in Heroic.
My character is ass.
Should I reroll a new char as something closer to the flavor I want?
Also:
Warlock is Star Pact
Rogue became a Wizard
Ranger is decent.
So, what you're trying to say is:
My character is ass.
Should I reroll a new char as something closer to the flavor I want?
Also:
Warlock is Star Pact
Rogue became a Wizard
Ranger is decent.
for ur info warlock is INFERNAL. and the ranger dealt the killing blow on the boss in the last adv...SO GIMME SOME CREDIT
-Dragoborn Paladin/Star Walock wearing scale and wielding Bastard sword and heavy shield.
-Human wizard.
-Elf Ranger/Fighter
-Half-Elf Infernal Warlock
Think we're good.