Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cheesiem0nkies Apr 21, 2009 19:12:36	Ok. My group recently finished our first succesful 4e campaign and it was awsome. However something I just had to announce; our DM showed us the final boss fight stats (which we will have to man up against at level 25) BBEG The Great Lord Hulsk, Conquerer of the World Level 34 Solo Soldier Initiative +26 Aura Enemies within 20 squares take a -5 penalty to all saving throws Speed 8, fly 12, teleport 8 AC 58, Fortitude 60, Reflex 56, Will 74 HP 3675; Bloodied 1837; Surge value 918; Resist 100 non epic, Resist 20 all Saving throws +7 Action Points 3 Cloudwalker Sword (standard, at-will, basic) reach 3, +49 vs. AC, d8+ 53 (cold, fire, lightning), vorpal effect, 1 random enchantment, targets adjacent targets as well. Targets are also knocked back 3 squares and land prone. If attack roll exeeds will defense as well, the target is stunned for 1 round Cloudwalker sword enchantments: Fire +6, Cold +6, vicous +6, lightning +6, greater vorpal+6. Critical: +18d6 +12d12. Powers: Deal +3d12 damage, deal 3d6 lighning damage to everyone within 2 squares of the target, +3d6 fire damage and ongoing 15, +3d8 damage and slowed until end of next turn. Bonus dice do not interfere with vorpal quality, and bonus damage is added again each time. Summoned Swords (standard, at-will), reach 3, +44 vs. AC, d8 +40 damage, vorpal quality Clawshot arm (Minor, at-will) ranged 15 +47 vs. reflex, 4d6+29, pull 15 Sword frenzy (Standard, at-will) Make 2 Cloudwalker sword attacks and 2 summond swords attacks Repulse (Standard, recharge 4,5,6) Close burst 8, +44 vs. reflex, 8d6+31 damage, push 8 Chain Lightning (Standard, recharge 3,4,5,6) Ranged 10, +46 vs. reflex, 4d6+ 26 damage, repeat attack against another target within 5 squares of original target at +2 more attack bonus and d6+6 more damage Death (Standard, recharge 6), ranged 20, +46 vs. will, roll 2d10. The first indicates the numerator, and the second is the denominator. The target looses that fraction of it’s HP Not Even When Hulsk is hit by an opportunity attack, he may, as an immediate interrupt, make a free basic attack on that person. If they are knocked out of range, their opportunity attack is lost. Quick Reflexes Hulsk may make as many immediate interrupts per round as he wants. Threatening Reach Counterspell (Immediate Interrupt, recharge 3,4,5,6) When hit by a ranged power that lacks the weapon keyword, Hulsk can make an opposed attack roll with the caster (+49) If successful, Hulsk may use that power himself as a free action Disarming Critical When Hulsk scores a critical hit, that target drops it’s weapon or implement. Triple Activation Hulsk may take up to 3 turns in 1 round. Any condition effect only applies to one of the three activations (Except immobolized, that would get really confusing). Second Wind Standard Action; Encounter; Hulks regains 918 HP and gains +2 to all defenses for 1 round Str 57 Dex 27 Wis 24 Con 41 Int 47 Cha 23
#2 nowiwantmydmg Apr 21, 2009 20:23:00	Comparing to Tiamat's stats(a level 35 solo) that is one way over powered monster, your DM is obviously none too concerned with balance. You should have been TPKed repeatedly. The monster is also very unfair to casters.
#3 ytterbium_dragon Apr 21, 2009 20:36:23	Did you have an orbizard stunlock him or something?
#4 RPJesus Apr 21, 2009 20:46:36	Death (Standard, recharge 6), ranged 20, +46 vs. will, roll 2d10. The first indicates the numerator, and the second is the denominator. The target looses that fraction of it’s HP So you can lose 10/1 of your HP? Do you just drop to 0 automatically the next 10 times you're raised?
#5 cheesiem0nkies Apr 21, 2009 20:47:00	Did you have an orbizard stunlock him or something? Yes. The reason we could make it to this fight in once peice is because the wizard stunlocked the other 4 solos (also custom) that we were supposed to face. For him our wizard would have just ended up stunlocking the party (see counterspell) So you can lose 10/1 of your HP? Do you just drop to 0 automatically the next 10 times you're raised? My understanding is it outright kills you...since the fraction just multiplies by your HP to figure out how much normal damage it deals
#6 bill_bisco_average_adventurer Apr 21, 2009 22:56:38	So basically a feasible tactic that the DM doesn't like is banned for the final fight, how nice. ;) Not to mention the entire Wizard class. Ah, and so he gets 3 turns, and if he's stunned it only applies to one of those turns? *Yawn* :embarrass
#7 person34 Apr 21, 2009 23:01:56	And yet, the group came out and pulled a win... so I think the party in general was very overpowered also. If it was a tough fight, you had fun, and you won I dont see the problem?
#8 onceuponatime Apr 21, 2009 23:06:19	So you were level 25 and fought this? And you won? Then the DM realized how stoopid his BBEG was and gave you the win.
#9 nightwyrm Apr 21, 2009 23:26:04	Just looking at his defense stats...how did you guys ever hit him? And...did he ever miss on his attacks?
#10 misterarcane Apr 22, 2009 0:18:35	...How many people in your party? I suspect at least 7, probably more?
#11 BilopTheFleshwarper Apr 22, 2009 1:15:12	so... you beat a solo nine level over you(that is also way too powerful for it's level), BECAUSE your wizard was able to keep the OTHER FOUR solo's stunlocked? Um.... WTF? did you crit every action and have him dazed or stunned EVERY round of combat with flanking aid anothers, 10 man parties and CHEATING?
#12 myrwen_dup Apr 22, 2009 4:14:49	Yes. The reason we could make it to this fight in once peice is because the wizard stunlocked the other 4 solos (also custom) How do you stunlock FOUR other solos ?
#13 cheesiem0nkies Apr 22, 2009 6:24:26	Ok our party has 3 players each with several NPC teammate swe also get control of. However we may only have one out at a time. Rotating in and NPC is a full-round action. We also had a moderately higher pointbuy than normal (I think 30pts instead of 22) Main Party Warforged Warden (pure defender/tank/meatbag) Bugbear Rogue (pure damage, brutal scoundrel) Drow Sorcerer (also pure damage, wild mage) And 3 of the following can also be out at any given time Dragonborn Paladin Pitfighter (Rage of Tempus/Crit master, does easily most damage in party) Skeleton Ranger (Stormwarden, insane DPR, homebrew race) Genasai Wizard (Orbizard, basically it) Myconid Feylock (Multiclassed to divine oracle for prophecy of doom) Genasi Swordmage (Decent defender striker, more for-fun as player wanted to try and make a Rundas clone from Metroid Prime) Eladrin Invoker (Has insane stats given by DM, decent controller) Goblin Tactlord/Battlecaptain (Again with insane stats given by DM) Half-Elf Bard (Healbot. Multiclassed to get every possible healing spell. Has no weapon) Also a houserule that was never really agreed upon but our DM hasnt managed to convince us of otherwise is you can spend an action point as an immediate intterupt on anyones turn (usually to second wind right when you are about to die). Couple of things on the first round that helped: Prophecy of Doom followed by leading the attack. Our Tactlord has 30 int which means +10 attack bonus for everyone. Sorcerer pops off an Invert Resistance which flips his resist 20 all into vulnerability 5 all An inspiring word by tactlord grants another +10 (from Battlecaptain lvl 16), allowing for nova powers to hit (Blade Cascade, Chain Crits He never missed us. Not once. Surprisingly we didn't miss a lot either. Eg Math 1/2 level = 12 32 Strenth = 11 +6 Weapon = 6 Prof +3 (fullblade) = 3 Combat Advantage = 2 Dragonborn Bloodied = 1 Weapon Expertise = 3 +10 Leading the Attack (not a power bonus) = 10 Inspiring Word (for 1 round; is a power bonus) = 10 =+58 to hit against AC 58
#14 mellored Apr 22, 2009 11:59:20	Ah, a char-oped battle with a full cheese spread. Sounds fun.
#15 cheesiem0nkies Apr 22, 2009 14:39:17	Ah, a char-oped battle with a full cheese spread. Sounds fun. Well said
#16 Overmind69 Apr 23, 2009 3:11:01	Even with your cheese builds, theres no way your party actually defeated this horrible DM concocted monstrosity of imbalance. Possibly the worse Solo I've ever seen written. The only way you guys would hit him is in the first 2 rounds, when you nova. Once you lose the +10 to hit and the situational bonuses, you would have been screwed. You even stated the Warlord had a 30 int, which is utterly impossible at lvl 25. I'd especially love to know why you have 32 str listed in your math section, since thats also impossible. I could just go on and on about the various problems with what you said. Bottom line, you guys either had massive house rules that gave you at least 25% or more of an edge than what your saying, you all cheated, or your DM cheated. I especially laughed at the Will of 74. And the 3 turns in a row. And the 3 action points. And the horribly written power of Death. And the minor action claw attack that pulls 15 and does a MASSIVE amount of damage. He could have killed you guys in the air by just using this power alone. 4d6+29+falling damage=a dead PC every round easily. Pathetic. I shouldnt even have to bother refuting this. "I don't know how we took him down, but we did". Theres your problem. You didnt. Sorry, I cant help myself, but you shouldnt have even been able to touch this guy. His ranged attacks+fly should have sealed the deal. At the very least, your lucky the DM sucked at running this beast. I call BS on all of this. The ONLY exception to any of this is if your party used infinite loops + won initiative. Whats that? You guys werent lvl 30 to use any infinite loops? I mean, you guys wouldnt of even had lvl 26 powers. I need to calculate your chances of you winning even if there was about 10 of you. Im gonna high ball it and say about .02%
#17 trenchmouth Apr 23, 2009 10:28:59	I don't see how it's impossible for his character to have a 32 stat. In fact, it seems very likely given the information presented seems to point towards a very high powered game with lots of big numbers and well tuned characters.
#18 SuichimoTheDragoon Apr 24, 2009 17:15:41	I don't see how it's impossible for his character to have a 32 stat. In fact, it seems very likely given the information presented seems to point towards a very high powered game with lots of big numbers and well tuned characters. Because, in general, the highest you can buy a stat to is 20 with racial mods. The most you can increase any two stats by, using Demigod, is 10(4th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 18th, 21st, 24th, 28th, and Demigod's two +2's at 21st). So the max a stat can get to at the moment is 30.
#19 cheesiem0nkies Apr 24, 2009 22:22:55	You are right. When I said increased point buy earlier that may have been misleading. Although it nets to about 8 extra points what we actually got was up to +4 to a randomly determined stat (some of us); after racial mods and pointbuy. This means you can essential start off a couple points higher than possible.
#20 lunarflare1001 Apr 27, 2009 16:17:30	I (the sorceror) was hoping that Hulsk would hit me with Death.. so I could pull out chaos link(I think that's what it's called) and gg him :D But the DM deathed everyone but me, since I told him about the power... :,( Our party had abnormal stats due to some homebrew races we essentially earned through the story...
#21 zesty_chicken Apr 27, 2009 21:41:40	Holy whitewash frak on a stick. Even with the stats you guys had, you stood absolutely no chance. 10 cheesed up, optimized, level 25 characters could not do that. I tell you from experience as a player and a DM, NO way. Your DM was either crazy, or trying to kill you. Take a look at the stats of other deific monster (including gods) and compare them to this guy. Even tiamat isn't that strong. This was the most ridiculous of all. Triple Activation: Hulsk may take up to 3 turns in 1 round. Any condition effect only applies to one of the three activations. This alone could make a minion a threat to your party. With what h's been given him, he could potentially do 15 attacks using sword frenzy and clawshot arm, which should take a considerable amount of HP out of any PC. You know how the Scales of War backgrounds are considered to be very bad pieces of game design*? Well, if you compare this guy to them, he is the mother of all bad game design. And for good effect, I will quote this again. Holy whitewash frak on a stick.
#22 Overmind69 Apr 28, 2009 5:38:11	Zesty Chicken, thats pretty much what I told him. I think 3-4 tarrasque's would actually be easier to defeat. Or Orcus + Tiamat. Thats messed up.
#23 tdawg Apr 28, 2009 10:45:23	15 attacks? I was thinking it would be 18 ... because can't you downgrade your move action to a minor action? So: Triple Action for Triple Sword Frenzy. This yields 12. Then 2 minor actions each time for 6 more attacks.
#24 ferol_debtor_of_torm Apr 28, 2009 13:54:54	This was clearly not 4e but more likely some version of Calvinball.
#25 SourceOfEvil Apr 28, 2009 15:50:40	I (the sorceror) was hoping that Hulsk would hit me with Death.. so I could pull out chaos link(I think that's what it's called) and gg him :D But the DM deathed everyone but me, since I told him about the power... :,( So....the DM was using information about your character that the NPC wouldn't know?? On top of everything else....bunk, I say.
#26 lunarflare1001 Apr 28, 2009 16:18:10	Wrong, this is our 4e :D And about Hulsk just "knowing" not to use death on the sorc, I don't blame the dm at all... After all, a huge campaign coming to an end in one round from an immediate reaction is pretty anti climactic.
#27 ytterbium_dragon Apr 28, 2009 22:52:55	Wrong, this is our 4e :D And about Hulsk just "knowing" not to use death on the sorc, I don't blame the dm at all... After all, a huge campaign coming to an end in one round from an immediate reaction is pretty anti climactic. That's why your dm shouldn't give monsters an auto-death spell.