Can a Eladrin get along with Raven Queen Cleric

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

bubba65

Jan 05, 2009 21:32:54
I have 7th Eladrin Wizard(Good Alignment) who's God is Corellon. Two people in my group have rolled up two new characters both Shadar- Kai . The Shadar Kai cleric's God is the Raven Queen and from everything I read in blogs the two gods do not get along. Should I make up a new character to avoid conflict or is there another alternative.
#2

orenthes

Jan 05, 2009 21:45:12
You could always have an uneasy truce, sort of like in Pulp Fiction when Butch and Wallace worked together to get out of the antique shop, honestly though, I would have more fun if my character's worship conflicted with someone else's, I would never change it because of someone else. I don't think that you should change, but it's ultimately your decision.
#3

bubba65

Jan 05, 2009 22:03:42
You could always have an uneasy truce, sort of like in Pulp Fiction when Butch and Wallace worked together to get out of the antique shop, honestly though, I would have more fun if my character's worship conflicted with someone else's, I would never change it because of someone else. I don't think that you should change, but it's ultimately your decision.

I like your approach of a uneasy truce. I think I will give it a shot. The first test will be if offered healing if I would accept it from Raven Queen cleric
#4

kouk

Jan 05, 2009 23:11:31
What blogs say anything about the relationship between the two gods?

And of course just because some followers of the gods may feel certain ways, it doesn't mean all sects feel the same. Or, maybe you're just a nice understanding guy who realizes that death has its place in the world and following a particular unaligned faith doesn't make you a bad person.
#5

Ramien

Jan 06, 2009 0:24:11
What blogs say anything about the relationship between the two gods?

And of course just because some followers of the gods may feel certain ways, it doesn't mean all sects feel the same. Or, maybe you're just a nice understanding guy who realizes that death has its place in the world and following a particular unaligned faith doesn't make you a bad person.

I'd certainly hope so, considering Corellon is unaligned as well.
#6

Duskweaver

Jan 06, 2009 10:19:37
What blogs say anything about the relationship between the two gods?

It's an internet meme that needs to die, based on one short flavour text block in Martial Power. There is absolutely no evidence that Corellon and the RQ have any antagonism towards each other. All the flavour text block in question tells us is that one eladrin warlord who happens to worship Corellon once fought a battle against some followers of the RQ. That's it.
#7

kouk

Jan 06, 2009 13:31:40
Ah, is it the "Rallying Cry" entry?

Hmm, to me it seems like a sort of personal thing where a person vilifies the other side because they are after them. If a Raven Queen Sorrowsworn is after you it usually means you've cheated death in some way (according to the MM entry).

Also, gods can often have conflicting goals but still not really be each other's enemies. As long as their puppets -- er, followers, act out the conflict for them in a given situation they tend to accept the results for at least a while. Doesn't mean the followers actually hate each other either, they just have differing goals sometimes.
#8

rikiji

Jan 06, 2009 13:52:04
Ah, is it the "Rallying Cry" entry?

Hmm, to me it seems like a sort of personal thing where a person vilifies the other side because they are after them. If a Raven Queen Sorrowsworn is after you it usually means you've cheated death in some way (according to the MM entry).

Also, gods can often have conflicting goals but still not really be each other's enemies. As long as their puppets -- er, followers, act out the conflict for them in a given situation they tend to accept the results for at least a while. Doesn't mean the followers actually hate each other either, they just have differing goals sometimes.

Given that both Raven Queen and Corellon are on the 'circle of seasons' list of gods (winter and spring, respectively) I'd consider them uneasy allies at worst. Given that their followers are concentrated in opposing realms (shadowfell vs feywild), I can see some antagonism happening at those levels - but that's more racial politics than any real predisposition of the gods themselves.
#9

kouk

Jan 06, 2009 14:06:34
Given that both Raven Queen and Corellon are on the 'circle of seasons' list of gods (winter and spring, respectively) I'd consider them uneasy allies at worst. Given that their followers are concentrated in opposing realms (shadowfell vs feywild), I can see some antagonism happening at those levels - but that's more racial politics than any real predisposition of the gods themselves.

I agree. A follower of one god might just happen to be racist/elitist or something. There's lots of variation in individual followers' personalities of course.
#10

salla

Jan 06, 2009 14:10:11
I agree. A follower of one god might just happen to be racist/elitist or something. There's lots of variation in individual followers' personalities of course.

I agree. It depends entirely on the personalities of the characters involved; if the RQ cleric is some emo-cutter-goth-lamer, then odds are NOBODY will like him. The interactions of the gods (who may not even exist) are quite irrelevant.
#11

Nyarlathotep

Jan 06, 2009 14:28:10
My stock answer to questions like the one in the OP is this: If you can come up with a reason you should be able to get along...any reason will do...and the other players are okay with it, then go for it.
#12

Vatras

Jan 06, 2009 16:10:22
I would be more worried about an eladrin and a shadar-kai getting along than about their beliefs, which by PHB are not even antagonistic (there is not a single word in the core books about their relationship, if there is even one).
#13

pigknight

Jan 06, 2009 19:59:25
The Raven Queen is more of an anti-undead, ressurecting is ok but lichdom is bad, deity. And where are you getting this RQ vs. Corellon stuff from? They faught one battle against each other. The only god the Raven Queen hates would be Vecna.
#14

erk_

Jan 06, 2009 22:17:28
I'm a strongly atheist scientist and I have many close friends who are strongly christian. Belief in gods in D&D shouldn't be any more character-defining than in real life.
#15

wizarddog

Jan 06, 2009 23:44:30
It will also be up to the DM on how the gods and races get along. If he allowed these races to be in his campaign, he obviously doesn't have a problem with you working together. As a DM, I never use the game information to the "T". ;)
#16

zeratulcraft

Jan 07, 2009 0:16:04
I'm a strongly atheist scientist and I have many close friends who are strongly christian. Belief in gods in D&D shouldn't be any more character-defining than in real life.

When you know, with 100% certainty, that your god exists and grants you power, it's a bit character defining.
#17

salla

Jan 07, 2009 0:25:54
When you know, with 100% certainty, that your god exists and grants you power, it's a bit character defining.

Yes-and-no. There are multiple ways to interpret the tenets of a faith; not everybody who worships the same deity is going to be a clone of the next one, and not every aspect of a character is based on those tenets. In other words, there's more to a character than 'cleric of X'. There's nothing stopping a cleric of the RQ from being an easy-going, easy to get along with sort, just as there's nothing stopping them from being an emo-goth-cutter.

The former is easier to get along with in a party, obviously.
#18

zeratulcraft

Jan 07, 2009 0:44:05
Yes-and-no. There are multiple ways to interpret the tenets of a faith; not everybody who worships the same deity is going to be a clone of the next one, and not every aspect of a character is based on those tenets. In other words, there's more to a character than 'cleric of X'. There's nothing stopping a cleric of the RQ from being an easy-going, easy to get along with sort, just as there's nothing stopping them from being an emo-goth-cutter.

The former is easier to get along with in a party, obviously.

Well yes, you're right. But simply knowing those things I said do make a big change to a character.
#19

legdiwena

Jan 07, 2009 9:47:43
RQ hates Orcus too, right?
#20

salla

Jan 07, 2009 10:44:52
RQ hates Orcus too, right?

Seems likely, since he's trying to kill her and take her stuff.
#21

pigknight

Jan 07, 2009 16:58:20
Orcus isn't a god.

And I have a half-elf atheist paladin of the Raven Queen in one of my campains...I know we gets his powers from a god...in context it makes sense.
#22

erk_

Jan 08, 2009 9:10:49
When you know, with 100% certainty, that your god exists and grants you power, it's a bit character defining.

Sure, but any Eladrin also knows the Raven Queen exists and grants her Cleric power, which puts them back onto equal footing. While he may not worship her, he's got little choice but to recognise she is a god; I don't worship Allah, but I recognise Islam is a valid religion. It's then the player's decision if his Eladrin is going to be a dink about it, or if he's going to respect that not everyone follows the same religious path as him. It's no different from me choosing not to pester my Christian friends about their beliefs simply because some Christians hold attitudes about their belief that I disagree with.
#23

salla

Jan 08, 2009 13:18:17
Sure, but any Eladrin also knows the Raven Queen exists and grants her Cleric power, which puts them back onto equal footing. While he may not worship her, he's got little choice but to recognise she is a god;

Not necessarily. Since (assuming your campaign operates by the PHB standards) gods do not physically manifest, and the power is granted by investiture by the church, the Eladrin need not acknowledge the RQ even exists; merely that the cleric thinks she does.
#24

pigknight

Jan 08, 2009 18:04:14
D&D is like Greek mythology. It's obvious there's gods.
#25

salla

Jan 08, 2009 21:37:44
D&D is like Greek mythology. It's obvious there's gods.

Not unless they blatantly and physically appear, no it isn't.
#26

pigknight

Jan 08, 2009 21:50:13
Clerics can go pew-pew lazers.
#27

salla

Jan 09, 2009 1:15:08
Clerics can go pew-pew lazers.

Indeed they can ... because they were the subject of a ritual from other clerics. Gods don't enter into it. You can, in fact, play a cleric who bluffed his way through the entire procedure, doesn't worship anything, and still get divine powers because the other clerics gave them to him (the classic easy lie; tell them what they want to hear, they'll buy it every time).

Now, a cleric is almost certainly going to THINK his powers come from his God, that's what he's been trained to believe. However, that is an assumption. Clerics go pew-pew-pew does not directly corelate to 'gods exist'.
#28

zeratulcraft

Jan 09, 2009 3:58:34
Indeed they can ... because they were the subject of a ritual from other clerics. Gods don't enter into it. You can, in fact, play a cleric who bluffed his way through the entire procedure, doesn't worship anything, and still get divine powers because the other clerics gave them to him (the classic easy lie; tell them what they want to hear, they'll buy it every time).

Now, a cleric is almost certainly going to THINK his powers come from his God, that's what he's been trained to believe. However, that is an assumption. Clerics go pew-pew-pew does not directly corelate to 'gods exist'.

Where then, did the first Cleric get her/his powers?
#29

batshido

Jan 09, 2009 7:50:22
Clerics can go pew-pew lazers.

So can Wizards and Warlocks.

Overt magical ability isn't necessarily indicative of the presence of a specific god.
#30

salla

Jan 09, 2009 11:13:19
Where then, did the first Cleric get her/his powers?

He invented the ritual via experimentation.
#31

pigknight

Jan 09, 2009 16:51:54
Well I'm curious about what avatars of deities are percieved as then.