But the last thing that happened this session was that our Wizard was petrified by some cursed book (we didn't know, we just figured we'd check what kind of book it was but apparently the cover was cursed)
So, summing everything up, this is our current situation:
Party wizard: Petrified
Rest of party: in the dark. The wizard was our only source of light
Equipment: a few magic items we found. everything else was taken by the Thieves' Guild before we were dumped in the dungeon/prison/pit we are now in
No food, water, decent clothing, light of any kind.
Trying to get some sleep (fought a few brutal encounters, vs a bunch of Crawling Claws and Crawling Gauntlets(they deal 6 damage as minions... what level are they?), skeletons, and a Zombie Hulk (lvl 8 creature... very hard to hit) also took a hit from some sort of trap that dealt 36 damage in a burst and took me and the wizard from max to KO in one go and nearly killed us since the other two don't have any Healing (no potions, those were taken also))
From the sounds of things, zombies are advancing on us, the watch just woke us up from the sound, then we stopped for the next session.
Current party level: 2
Members: 4 (well... 3 without the wizard)
Is there any reasonable way, barring DM fiat, that we can fix the Wizard? I've looked through the PHB but the only cure seems to be Remove Affliction, which is a level 8 ritual and I'd take a penalty equal to the level of the effect on it, if I can cast it at all (can you cast rituals above your level?) so I'd be happy to get a positive bonus on my Heal check for it (and I'm the Cleric, I have it trained...) and might just kill the Wizard outright from fixing her.
And is stuff like this in the 4e style? From everything I've read so far, I'd say no, but maybe this is another way to play it? I'm kinda wondering if we should continue to put up with this, it's not feeling very heroic so far to be bossed around by thieves' guilds you cannot fight, fighting single monster encounters 6 levels above the party that nearly kill you with one hit, and exploding from traps you didn't even have a chance against (the Zombie Hulk could hit us on a 3 or higher (remember; no armor) and the trap hit a 35 against Ref, I don't know what he rolled but the best of us have a Ref score of 16 or something))
That's not fun.
If this turns out to be the DM's standard style, and you are continuously captured, bullied and blown up (but somehow magically survive for yet another torturous episode), then deal with it out-of-character; talk to the DM, or make your excuses and find another game.
Just maybe the DM knows what he is trying to do, or will adjust the style of his own accord though. Give it a sesson or two more, I think?
The lack of equipment, by the way, disproportionately screws the Fighters and other people who rely on Armor and Weapons.
Curing Petrification: Without a scroll of remove affliction and enough components to use it, no, there's no way. Of course, a book that petrifies people without a save ALSO isn't kosher - petrification takes three full rounds to work, and three rounds of his own Saves plus everyone else stacking on Saves from the Healing skill (since you weren't in combat) should almost certainly have gotten *one* 10+ - and one's all you need, since a single save stops Petrification. Meaning, the DM's already gone a touch off the reservation - if he's doing this right, he's also provided a way to FIX petrification that breaks the rules, too.
So. Could you get out of this? Maybe. It *could* be that this was intended to be the first session, scaring the crap out of the PCs, making them scramble to barely survive, leaving them alone in the dark and shivering in terror - and the next session starts off better, with finding some equipment, getting the Wizard back somehow, and starting the comeback to escape get your revenge against the guys who put you here. And, really, this could be the start of a GREAT story that you'll be retelling to your friends about the time you came back from nothing and still kicked twelve flavours of ass in an awesome and epic story.
It's also possible your DM is a clueless dick and is just plain bad at this.
I'd suggest that you talk to him. Tell him that you're not having a lot of fun getting pushed around, have no equipment, and facing things that are way stronger than you all the time, and that you aren't entertained by boring Gygax-style instadeath crap. Ask him if this session was what you should expect all the time, or if it was a one-off as a setup - and if he says it's a one-off and a setup, go with it, for at least another session.
(Crawling Gauntlets are L3 minions, by the way - their big damage is traded off by their being Brutes, with a mere *+3* to hit)
Best you can do is take a deep breath and give it your best shot in-character. Don't worry about the points and damage, or what is "fair" by the encounter builder, just try what you think the character would do. I understand that they might be desperate to survive, but they probably would not give up.
If this turns out to be the DM's standard style, and you are continuously captured, bullied and blown up (but somehow magically survive for yet another torturous episode), then deal with it out-of-character; talk to the DM, or make your excuses and find another game.
Just maybe the DM knows what he is trying to do, or will adjust the style of his own accord though. Give it a sesson or two more, I think?
Exactly, calm down and continue to play for a couple more sessions, the DM might just know what he's doing and this is all on purpose...
...or he may just be a dick with a "DM vs. PC" mentality. If things don't improve after one more session, talk to your DM about it, ask him if things are going to get better, and inform him that if they aren't he's just being a dick and it's not fun for anyone. If he continues to throw encounters that seem strictly designed to kill you all mercilessly at you guys, than just find a new group or stage a coup and remove him from the position of DM, he's obviously not ready for the title yet.
"You helped us do x, so in return we will return your wizard to flesh"
Sooo..... just had another session last night. I'm getting the idea that our DM is still stuck in the 3.5 mindset (we're doing 4.0) and he's been pulling some strange stuff.
But the last thing that happened this session was that our Wizard was petrified by some cursed book (we didn't know, we just figured we'd check what kind of book it was but apparently the cover was cursed)
So, summing everything up, this is our current situation:
Party wizard: Petrified
Rest of party: in the dark. The wizard was our only source of light
Equipment: a few magic items we found. everything else was taken by the Thieves' Guild before we were dumped in the dungeon/prison/pit we are now in
No food, water, decent clothing, light of any kind.
Trying to get some sleep (fought a few brutal encounters, vs a bunch of Crawling Claws and Crawling Gauntlets(they deal 6 damage as minions... what level are they?), skeletons, and a Zombie Hulk (lvl 8 creature... very hard to hit) also took a hit from some sort of trap that dealt 36 damage in a burst and took me and the wizard from max to KO in one go and nearly killed us since the other two don't have any Healing (no potions, those were taken also))
From the sounds of things, zombies are advancing on us, the watch just woke us up from the sound, then we stopped for the next session.
Current party level: 2
Members: 4 (well... 3 without the wizard)
Is there any reasonable way, barring DM fiat, that we can fix the Wizard? I've looked through the PHB but the only cure seems to be Remove Affliction, which is a level 8 ritual and I'd take a penalty equal to the level of the effect on it, if I can cast it at all (can you cast rituals above your level?) so I'd be happy to get a positive bonus on my Heal check for it (and I'm the Cleric, I have it trained...) and might just kill the Wizard outright from fixing her.
And is stuff like this in the 4e style? From everything I've read so far, I'd say no, but maybe this is another way to play it? I'm kinda wondering if we should continue to put up with this, it's not feeling very heroic so far to be bossed around by thieves' guilds you cannot fight, fighting single monster encounters 6 levels above the party that nearly kill you with one hit, and exploding from traps you didn't even have a chance against (the Zombie Hulk could hit us on a 3 or higher (remember; no armor) and the trap hit a 35 against Ref, I don't know what he rolled but the best of us have a Ref score of 16 or something))
There Is no 3E or 4E Style per se. The dm decides how challange an campaign is the System is largely irrelevant for this... yes its just another way to play ;)
If you really don´t like it I would talk to the dm telling him that you are more into the heroic type adventures and if he could adjust it accordingly.
As for the wizard I think he´s a goner, a reroll seems to be the best way:D
Can you? Yes, possibly. The two traps seem *way* out of depth - 36 damage and a 35 on the roll sounds like a natural 20, but +15 vs Reflex against level 2s is essentially autodamage. The Zombie Hulk, as a single monster threat for an L2 party, is an interesting and dangerous tactical challenge but not inherently a killer until you add in that you have no equipment.
The lack of equipment, by the way, disproportionately screws the Fighters and other people who rely on Armor and Weapons.
Curing Petrification: Without a scroll of remove affliction and enough components to use it, no, there's no way. Of course, a book that petrifies people without a save ALSO isn't kosher - petrification takes three full rounds to work, and three rounds of his own Saves plus everyone else stacking on Saves from the Healing skill (since you weren't in combat) should almost certainly have gotten *one* 10+ - and one's all you need, since a single save stops Petrification. Meaning, the DM's already gone a touch off the reservation - if he's doing this right, he's also provided a way to FIX petrification that breaks the rules, too.
So. Could you get out of this? Maybe. It *could* be that this was intended to be the first session, scaring the crap out of the PCs, making them scramble to barely survive, leaving them alone in the dark and shivering in terror - and the next session starts off better, with finding some equipment, getting the Wizard back somehow, and starting the comeback to escape get your revenge against the guys who put you here. And, really, this could be the start of a GREAT story that you'll be retelling to your friends about the time you came back from nothing and still kicked twelve flavours of ass in an awesome and epic story.
It's also possible your DM is a clueless dick and is just plain bad at this.
I'd suggest that you talk to him. Tell him that you're not having a lot of fun getting pushed around, have no equipment, and facing things that are way stronger than you all the time, and that you aren't entertained by boring Gygax-style instadeath crap. Ask him if this session was what you should expect all the time, or if it was a one-off as a setup - and if he says it's a one-off and a setup, go with it, for at least another session.
(Crawling Gauntlets are L3 minions, by the way - their big damage is traded off by their being Brutes, with a mere *+3* to hit)
I agree. Taken individually none of the elements of the adventure are way out of line as depicted. They're all tough situations and stringing them together one after another like this is obviously starting to get to the players.
It is a bit too soon to tell if this is over the top. Some DMs will definitely run a party through the ringer once in a while. They should equally well provide some moments of triumph where the PCs will get to romp. Maybe the OPs DM is just sadistic, maybe he's about to switch gears, and maybe he just has a bad sense of how to pace things.
I'd definitely go with it for another session and see how things work out. If you're just being perpetually put in a bad pinch all the time session after session, then do mention it to the DM.
Remember the objective is to have fun. If you're not having fun (and it sounds as if you are not) you need to talk to both the rest of the players and the DM and tell them that. I've played in games where you start out with nothing and have to fight your way back. That can be fun, but if it's not turning out to be too fun, let the DM know. If he's insensitive and tells you that's just the way D&D goes -- find another DM because it's not true.
Is 4e designed for this mindset? No I don't think it is. In fact it's designed more as a tactical "balanced" wargame rather than a start with nothing sort of game (which is more what D&D has been traditionally). The encounters in 4e assume you are a standard number of standard leveled characters with standard equipment (with a standard mix of roles and classes).
Talk to the DM. If he asks you to trust him for a session or two (perhaps because you are going to get the stuff you need relatively quickly) then do. If he stonewalls, try another game or another DM or at least a pre-packaged scenario.
First I was afraid, I was petrified.
On a more serious side of thing, I've been in cases where the DM tried to do things like that, but if we think of a way out we've always been able to use it. Also, I've never really seen a book in D&D that had an effect on it that happened when you looked at the cover, but since that's the case tie some sort of blindfold around your eyes and then work out a way to get it so that any living enemies [I don't know if undead can be petrified] that may come with them get turned to stone also, and then just find a way to avoid looking at it. Or you could turn the whole party to stone and stop playing with the DM.
I once played an adventure where you started out in 2e I think at first level with nothing, dumped into a dungeon and fought your way out. But the encounters were structured so that we could survive, find weapons and stuff and by the time we emerged, we had all our initial kit along with some magic. It was fun, but we weren't in the dark and we didn't have our wizard petrified either. Petrification in 4e requires a ritual that is reasonably high level -- way above the head of a 1st level party.
Such adventures can be fun. You don't start out with much in 2e, 3e, or 4e (as far as stuff is concerned) but you do start out with a few things like torches or sunrods and the like. Or the dungeon has flourescent fungi or you can make a torch or something. Being in the total dark is paralyzing if you dont have darkvision. Maybe you should try it again and play all Drow
Or make sure your rogue is an arcane trickster and has cantrips. Or play all Rogue/wizard drow so everyone can make light but doesn't need it. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Or look for flint and try to build a fire (maybe the room has debris you can use as fuel). But frankly seem my previous advice and see if you can talk to your DM about something a bit less catastrophic as far as scenarios.
- Roleplay it out, and if there's a TPK, say "Oh well. That sucked. Guess I get to find a new game." Possibly offer to run for everyone except the current DM (assuming everybody else is as unhappy with it as you are.)
- Everybody touch the book. It'll turn you into statues, which means the zombies can't kill you. Either someone will come along later (possibly hundreds of years later) and unpetrify you or they won't. No subjective time happens in the meantime. If the book doesn't petrify you, then maybe it'll have something useful in it. In character, it's a bit of a longshot, but I could see your characters taking it.
- Ask your DM straight up (just the two of you, without an audience) if he's setting up plot or if this is just the way things are going to be for your party. If he's setting up plot, let it run. If it's just the way things are going to be, then talk to him about that whole "things are supposed to be fun for the players" concept. This hobby does tend to attract some socially clueless folks, and he may not have been taking the player experience into consideration.
fighting single monster encounters 6 levels above the party that nearly kill you with one hit,
1 word: "Irontooth". (a lvl 6 brute that you face as a lvl 1 party, in the first 4e WotC campaign; WotC kinda admitted it to be a mistake).
Actually, ask you DM if he could learn the 4e rules.
As a lvl 2 party, the normal XP pool for a 4-man party is 500 (the same encounter level for 5 level 1 characters). But you're lacking equipment (something that is frowned upon, as it balances the game) the XP pool should be about halved I think ...
Zombie Hulk
doesn't this guy die if you score a crit on 'm?