My group is doing a caster campaign, and I choose to be a spellthief.
The rest include as follows:
Gnome Warlock 4
Human Wizard 4
Human Cleric 4
The issue I'm having is that I'm making a new character since the spellthief is hopelessly pathetic and completly overshadowed by everyone else.
However the group is going to expect me to make a rogue character so that we have trapfinding and such, and I want to be the rogue character, however..
There is not even ONE rogue-like class out there that could even TRY to match their power level. I'm making my own monk PrC right now that I kinda want to use, but he has no spell casting abilities.
Please give me some advice!
1) Refuse to play a rogue. Trapfinding is boring. Play a cleric instead and double the healing! OR, simply play whatever you want and let the traps hit you. Summoned creatures can be your trap bait.
2) Play a spellthief and get over yourself. So, you are not the most powerful character in the group. Try to take satisfaction in the party's gains and your contributions to the larger goals, you selfish prat!
3) Min/max yourself some compromise between 1 and 2, and rely on broken feats here or there to support yourself.
Let me show of an encounter that has happened before
We were facing a Dark Naga and a Half-fiend Warlock (I think it was Half-fiend) and everyone was doing the following
The Cleric was doing his healing thing and smashing skulls with his mace
The Wizard was casting some higher level spells and magic missles
The Warlock was Eldritch blasting things to pieces
I was forced to hide behind the stairs to try and get a sneak attack off, which missed, and then I, for some odd reason, couldn't hide anywhere else in the room and was forced into melee which promtply ended with me nearly getting killed.
Take a high-skill point caster class, like an int-based one or Cloistered Cleric. Congrats, you've got the rogue's class skills, trapfinding and casting. you're one CL behind though, but you've made a fair trade-off IMO.
The alternative is why should you be the trapfinder? The cleric and wizard have options, especially that spell which locates traps. It's either Cleric or Wizard, not sure what.
Beats me, but I have a feeling that If I'm not there gonna throw a fit.
Well, then you can either try the quasi-rogue I posted, or ask them to try magic-based solutions. A well-played caster party shouldn't need a rogue.
Beguiler gets Trapfinding and Open Locks.
I'd lean towards Beguiler/Wiz/Ult Magus
Of course our party casters just use the Acid Splash reserve feat on most locks now if they're not in a hurry.
Other stuff:
3 levels of Human Paragon, would lose only 1 caster level but gain 1 skill to always be a class skill, +2 to a stat and a bonus feat.
Spellthief/Bard/Sublime Cord for a crazy win, it's scary with the way Master Spellthief feat is worded.
Those can hold on well in combat, and you can keep the party quiet by taking the trap finding spells.
And that's a whole lot of classes in that build there! What book is Abjurant Champ in?
The only problem is that I want to avoid having two of the same class in our party = /
Yeah, but primarily, you'd be using your eldritch blast through your ranseur plus using your UMD to the party's benefit with items that can replace certain rogue functions. Same class, but different application altogether. Use your invocations to buff yourself and enhance your damage.
One of my players used this build and it was just so cool.
How bout an idea for a fast-moving class?
Ah yea, I see your point there. I'll leave that option open. Any other build Idea's?
How bout an idea for a fast-moving class?
A druid at this level would have woodland stride. While this doesn't really increase your base land speed, it certainly helps you when terrain would normally slow you down. A druid wildshaper would be a good addition to this group. It would add a decent tank if done properly.
Scout (from CAdv, I think) is a fast moving combat class with trapfinding, but no spells.
Also, Artificer as mentioned above has trapfinding, and more than enough casting goodness.
Is Psionics an option? If so, you should definitely check out the psychic warrior, for a combatant, or a psion or something. Give the psionic forums a try! There are guides, people are helpful, and it is a great system.
It needs to cast sadly.
I'm not sure if I want to be an Artificer.
I don't think that the DM would have an issue with Psionics, but what would you suggest I ask?
I want everyone to have fun which is what was bothering me.
It needs to cast sadly.
I'm not sure if I want to be an Artificer.
I don't think that the DM would have an issue with Psionics, but what would you suggest I ask?
I believe artificer is still your best bet. They're more fun than you might think and they will be unlike the other PCs. Just pick a niche and stick with it - my favorite is wands. With enough wands and scrolls in your haversack, the artificer can do just about anything. At 6th-level, take Leadership and ask your DM for a warforged cohort. Then you can really buff him up with your infusions and send him into battle!
The DM is pretty Anti-Leadership : /
I used to be as well, but now I find that they are usually a welcome addition to round out the party and offer the player the chance to roleplay something new for a few levels or switch back and forth based on mood. I've found they add more to the game than take away. Not every player can run two characters at the same time effectively, though.
Or, if you want a full caster who can still do the combat, why not fight by proxy? Summon astral constructs to do your fighting for you (similar to summon monster spells, but different in a psionics-rocks kinda way)
If you want some great information, just head over to the psionics boards and write up a quick thread explaining your situation, and someone will put things in a better light than I can. We love helping new & interested people. Give it a try! You've got nothing to lose
As a tip, check out the FAQs at the top of the psionics boards, also to help explain to people who think psionics is broken that it really, really isn't.
For traps:
Beguiler gets Trapfinding and Open Locks.
.
Yes, go Beguiler for this party.Fine unless you run into a LOT of undead.
There's is also the alt Ranger from Dungeonscape, who gets Trapfinding. It has alittle spellcasting.
Then there's the Factotum, it has spellcasting and trapfinding.
And you could be any caster you want (as long as the cleric can tank).
Though I am surprised no one took druid. You are an able fighter early on (in the form of your animal companion) and even get a free druid as part of the package deal....:D
I need help bad.
My group is doing a caster campaign, and I choose to be a spellthief.
The rest include as follows:
Gnome Warlock 4
Human Wizard 4
Human Cleric 4
The issue I'm having is that I'm making a new character since the spellthief is hopelessly pathetic and completly overshadowed by everyone else.
However the group is going to expect me to make a rogue character so that we have trapfinding and such, and I want to be the rogue character, however..
There is not even ONE rogue-like class out there that could even TRY to match their power level. I'm making my own monk PrC right now that I kinda want to use, but he has no spell casting abilities.
Please give me some advice!
OK, how about:
Rogue (or Scout) 1/Monk 3 with Ascetic Rogue - stack a sneak attack with a Stunning Fist in combat, have amazing saves so spells bounce off you and become the Smiter of Mages. Use Magic Device keeps you abreast of the spell-casters in many areas, too.
Beguiler 4 for that subtle touch - you get trapfinding AND spells.
Psychic Rogue 4 for something different, some psionic abilities and rogue abilities rolled into one (here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)
Artificer 4 - trapfinding and item creation, and hardly a spell you cannot emulate, given time. Artificers are generally considered to be seriously badass.
Just a few ideas ...
Druid is really good. Full caster, animal companion (I prefer wardog with barding (animals trained for war get free armor proficiencies), and you can summon things like thoqquas to burn holes through locks and doors. Or let the wizard prepare Knock. Or your warlock can eldritch blast the bejeezus out of the locks (sure, it causes half damage, but you got time, right?). The cleric can prepare Find Traps, and drop it to heal y'all if needed. Druids also have a decent number of skills, so if you have a decent Int, you can at least be a half-decent lock and trap dude. Maybe take a dip in ninja for the skills (and Wis to AC--even while wildshaped) and go into that dagger-spelled dude PrC from Complete Mage (I think).
Beguilers are fun, too. 6 skill points, Int based spells (so more skills), and most of the thief skills you'd want. Maybe combine with Spellthief and the Master Spellthief feat from the Complete Mage.
I wasn't meaning to be accurate with the 'selfish prat' comment, I was being ironic. Nevertheless, I think the druid idea is good. A druid can be an infiltrator, and the animal companion can be a co-infiltrator or trap bait.
Its too bad your DM is anti-leadership, because rogues and bards make the best cohorts.
You only need to blow lots of money on consummables if you want to take out the CR20s single-handed at 10th level ;)
Beguilers are very cool. undead are the one problem even they can be handled well if your DM treats illusions properly (no save until they interact); and there's always Glitterdust.
Scouts are generally weak beyond the 'baby levels' due to being unable to combine Skirmish with full atack (plus lots of things being immune to skirmish). You can get around this with Dervish or Improved Manyshot (from a psionic book) but Roguea re still generally better (Crippling Strike!)
You can have a 'badass' melee rogue too of course -visit the CO boards to see how it's done.
But regular scouts don't need lots of attacks. They can make one big attack that's generally more accurate than a bunch of lesser attacks. And packs quite a wallop. And in most scenarios, you'll be mobile enough to get in skirmish damage every round. Also, can qualify for Acrobatic Strike pretty easily, which gives an additional +6 to your attack roll if you tumble by your opponent in melee.
I want to play a Gestalt Scout/Swashbuckler!!!
well ok we DO but it's a changeling rogue, with changeling substitution level 1. therefore gets social intuition isntead of trapfinding.
therefore our group barbarian/warlock is our trapfinder. in that, as the one with the most HP (i believe it's 45 or so on lvl 4). if we think a door/wall/floor etc is trapped and can't avoid it he just walks up n opens the door taking the trap damage/effect. lol
it's painful to him and messy at times but it works.
but IMO if you don't wanna be a rogue, then dont be a rogue.
be what you wanna be.
not every group HAS to have the "required" melee, healing, sneaking, magic. formula to it.
my groups are as varied as the pc's imaginations. we've had all mage parties before, all fighter-types. a nice mix of everything it's all over the map and we make it work.
we hardly ever have healers so we just stock up on ALOT of potions. it all works out if you play smart and dont just rely on 'bob' to find and disable all the traps. makes someone think a bit before they open door x.