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Choosing a 5th Character

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wanderer3791
Dec 09, 2008 13:02:20 We are just getting started with 4e, and our upcoming campaign will contain 5 PCs. This is what others have chosen so far:

1. Human - Wizard/Divine Oracle
2. Elf - Ranger/Stormwarden
3. Dwarf - Fighter/Iron Vanguard (hammers I think)
4. Human - Warlord (don't know what PP he will choose. I think he is leaning toward a CHA-based character though)
5. ?? Your Help is appreciated!

That leaves me to make my call. What class/role are we missing? It looks like we have 1 of each role - but with my limited experience with 4e, any insight is appreciated.

Should any of the above be modified? I have no idea what type of campaign it will be. I do know it is set in FR.
#2
Cpt_Micha
Dec 09, 2008 13:08:34 There's quite a few choices you can go with for your fifth slot.

I would say the least effective fifth choice would be a second leader (since the Cleric and Warlord seem to step on each other's toes alot)

Even then though, the fifth guy seems really lucky since he gets the ultimate freedom to pick whatever class he wants to be.
#3
exposed_wires
Dec 09, 2008 13:09:08 Ooooo I know I know! Whatever you want!

Seriously, all your bases are covered. You're free to pick whatever you want. A martial character might be good cause the warlord favors melee people, but that's pretty well represented already.

You could take this opportunity to playtest the barbarian or the bard or a just play the character that's been knocking around in your head for a while.
#4
johnnii
Dec 09, 2008 13:18:48 I'd say a Rogue. I don't think role in this case will matter in combats, but the skills a rogue brings can be useful outside of those.

Or ANY character with a Divine power source, just to and diversity in the party.

For race, either Dragonborn, Tiefling or Genasi (if possible), to add more diversity. The races are rather stereotypical so it adds some nice flavor with either a "bestial", "bad-boy" or "mystical" race (not that it's a bad thing with a stereotypical party).
#5
drunk_yoda
Dec 09, 2008 13:22:58 Assault Swordmage or one that is both melee and ranged like a rogue but your basics are covered so there is no prob what he is.
#6
griffonheart
Dec 09, 2008 13:26:20 I'd say go for a Rogue since as his been said the skill portion of that hasn't really been covered. That said, they covered all the real bases already and if there is something you are excited about you should go ahead and play it.
#7
mercuryv
Dec 09, 2008 13:29:20
There's quite a few choices you can go with for your fifth slot.

I would say the least effective fifth choice would be a second leader (since the Cleric and Warlord seem to step on each other's toes alot)

Even then though, the fifth guy seems really lucky since he gets the ultimate freedom to pick whatever class he wants to be.

I wouldn't say Cleric would necessarily be least effective, as a ranged spell cleric would be very different on the field on combat to a warlord, extra healing power is always a great bonus, and those radiant powers are always nice against undead foes. A paladin may do just as well as a back-up healer however.

That said... I agree any class would add well as you're already covering all the roles. Both the groups I play with have two strikers (Ranger & Rogue and Warlock & Rogue), which has worked well so far. You could also take into account skill roles (Warlock or Rogue for thievery?)

I know a pre-gen group of characters on the WotC site has two fighters also - one 2h dragonborn and one 1h+shield human, so really anything goes.
#8
Dragoloth
Dec 09, 2008 13:46:35 Artificer, the ability to recharge an item's daily power during a short rest is amazing. It's once per day plus once per milestone, but it's definately handy. They play like a leader with a lean towards controller. If you want to fill in the rogue gap train in thievery and have the ranger train in stealth.
#9
mycroftb
Dec 09, 2008 13:49:29 I seem to recall somewhere in the books it was written that, if you already have your bases covered, another defender is a good choice. I can't find it, though, to see what other advice it'd give in the area.

Just going with whatever you want is probably the best. Since you already know the other characters, it's easy to avoid overlapping another character exactly and looking like stealing their shtick.
#10
serphet
Dec 09, 2008 13:51:45 another defender is nice, or another leader... (my players have 2 defenders two leaders and a controller... it's pretty hax)
#11
peteyrock
Dec 09, 2008 13:59:02 I vote either Rogue or Warlock. A Defender and two Leaders ought to do a well enough job of keeping everyone's HP up. Plus, the Wizard should be able to handle large crowds. Rogue or Warlock will not only beef up the skills front, but also help in tackling dungeons and put major hurt on the solo/elite enemies.
#12
Kensan_Oni
Dec 09, 2008 14:08:38 Hmmm... You have a multiclass Wizard/Cleric (?? Wow) and a Warlord, so you don't need more healing. You have a tough defender, and another melee combatant.

I'd be tempted to run a Warlock or a Dagger Rogue under this situation. You have enough people in melee. Having another ranged option would be nice for your party.
#13
on_the_wings_of_tpk
Dec 09, 2008 14:13:26 I'd recommend either big two handed fighter for extra damage with staying and stopping power, or rogue for the skill set (mostly thievery and bluff).

Alternatively you can hold you're PHB approximately 3ft above your desk, spine down ward, and drop it. Play whatever class the book opens to. (If it doesn't open to a class right away, drop it again. However a little under half the book is the class chapter so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.)
#14
kerym_ammath
Dec 09, 2008 14:42:52 Eladrin Swordmage would be my call. Assault or Shielding don't know. Either way you would get some maneuverability via several different teleport powers, marking powers, some really good at wills, and with the right feats and paragon paths either heavy damage, heavy defense, or seriously nasty marking ability. Of course I ma biased they are my favorite class. Regardless a second Defender is a major benefit, and if used right allows your primary defender to have even more staying power.
#15
undrave
Dec 09, 2008 17:31:45 I'd say, if you want to go the 'assumed' five man party to get a ranged striker.

A 'basic' 4e party is assume to include 1 of every role, and 2 different striker, one melee and one ranged. That's the ideal balance, anything else is still functionnal but you will need to realise it when dealing with tactics at the board.

If you're about to go do Keep on the Shadowfell I highly recommand a Warlock with good debuff (like Star or Fey pact) because ranged attacks are VERY good in KotS. Either that or a STR Paladin with 2 or 3 lay on hands and good Radiant powers(of Pelor so you can grab the Channel Divinity feat for Pelor's Radiance to kill Undeads!)
#16
greatfrito
Dec 09, 2008 17:45:50 I really don't have enough experience to really give a lot of suggestions, but...

If the Warlord goes Tactical (instead of Inspiring), it could be very nice to have someone with massive melee basic attacks. A party I'm running through KotS uses a Greatweapon Fighter and TacLord together to deadly, deadly, effect.

I'm also growing more and more fond of a Crossbow-rogue. With the Superior Crossbow (Adv.Vault), he's been the only character to score a complete one-shot-kill (first in initiative, Impact Shot encounter, 2d10+2d6+4, with good rolls, killed a halfling dead).
#17
jasondm
Dec 09, 2008 17:51:17 I think any class would do well, but your party is a little short on halflings. /snicker
#18
exposed_wires
Dec 09, 2008 17:53:03 Hey OP

Whatever you decide to go with, will you tell all of us here? I'm sure we'd really appreciate.
#19
n647
Dec 09, 2008 19:51:44 hmmm the best advice I can give you, and I mean it ...
don`t even thing about chosing based on wath the rest choose, just choose what interest you the most and with the builds and skills you think fit the char the best.
Exposed_Wires say something similar and i agree, this is not about having the perfect party with all bases covered, but about having fun with the chars you create/imagine.

allthe restgive good mechanical options and ll that, but at the end that`s not that important...
#20
Hibiki54
Dec 09, 2008 20:44:05 A Rogue, Warlock or Artificer may help enchance the party.
#21
Neutronium_Dragon
Dec 09, 2008 21:00:08 An assault swordmage does seem like it would fit in well, but most classes will probably work as long as you give some thought to how they will synergize with the other members of the party.
#22
MusicOfCreation
Dec 09, 2008 21:55:14 I'd say go Paladin of pretty much any build. DPR Paladin for ass kicking and back up healing or a Healadin for surgeless healing.
#23
ian_demagi
Dec 10, 2008 9:11:17
I seem to recall somewhere in the books it was written that, if you already have your bases covered, another defender is a good choice. I can't find it, though, to see what other advice it'd give in the area.

Just going with whatever you want is probably the best. Since you already know the other characters, it's easy to avoid overlapping another character exactly and looking like stealing their shtick.

Page 15 of the PHB :

"It’s a good idea to cover each role with at least one character. If you have five or six players in your group, it’s best to double up on defender first,
then striker."
_________________________________________________________________
It depends on what you want. Multiple marking sources is very powerful, but I like the idea of 2 strikers. So to split the difference, the new Barbarian class is a blend of both. I also like the ranged striker idea or a rogue.

Ian
#24
williamhm75
Dec 10, 2008 10:23:30
Page 15 of the PHB :

"It’s a good idea to cover each role with at least one character. If you have five or six players in your group, it’s best to double up on defender first,
then striker."
_________________________________________________________________
It depends on what you want. Multiple marking sources is very powerful, but I like the idea of 2 strikers. So to split the difference, the new Barbarian class is a blend of both. I also like the ranged striker idea or a rogue.

Ian

Id say go warlock or swordmage. Dark pact locks have good debuffs as well as really good damage.
#25
yrogerg
Dec 10, 2008 10:47:55 As with others, I would suggest an extra striker, if you're truly indifferent. In particular, the synergy of a Warlord and three powerful Ranged basic attacks (Wizard, Ranger, and Warlock) is not something to be scoffed at. Barring that, though, balancing the Ranger with a melee striker such as a Rogue wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

On the other hand, if you weren't feeling striker-ey, an extra defender- specifically, a Cha Paladin who could supplement the Warlord's healing in a pinch- wouldn't be a terrible thing, either.
#26
undrave
Dec 10, 2008 11:26:48
As with others, I would suggest an extra striker, if you're truly indifferent. In particular, the synergy of a Warlord and three powerful Ranged basic attacks (Wizard, Ranger, and Warlock) is not something to be scoffed at. Barring that, though, balancing the Ranger with a melee striker such as a Rogue wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

On the other hand, if you weren't feeling striker-ey, an extra defender- specifically, a Cha Paladin who could supplement the Warlord's healing in a pinch- wouldn't be a terrible thing, either.

I'm pretty sure Stormwarden is a TWF path, which means their Ranger is melee so you'd need a Ranged striker to balance it. Hence a Warlock.
#27
joydyhee
Dec 10, 2008 11:34:54 This is purely an example and not meant to endorse any particular class - whatever you choose will help to make a memorable experience, uncover some hidden challenges of the combination of your party and (hopefully) uncover some hidden benefits! Also, this is an examination of the combat prowess of the group - the non-combat side cannot be measured as easily looking at just class/role.

I am running a campaign with a striker (ranger), a defender (paladin), a controller (wizard), and, until recently, two leaders (cleric and warlord). The party was VERY hardy with the two leaders, as the warlord (inspiring build) was always in melee with the fighter, leaving the ranger, wizard, and cleric more open to use ranged/support abilities. When necessary, the cleric waded into melee, but that was rare. The ranger NEVER went into melee (twin-shot!) and the only time the wizard got anywhere near melee was to increase the effectiveness of his area attacks (including dragon breath - he is a dragonborn).

The warlord has since passed on from the mortal realm, and his player decided to try a different concept - a warlock. With this new combo, the cleric finds himself taking a more direct role in melee as the warlock is obviously more squishy than the warlord and cannot afford to stay in melee for several of his favorite powers.
#28
yrogerg
Dec 10, 2008 11:46:12
I'm pretty sure Stormwarden is a TWF path, which means their Ranger is melee so you'd need a Ranged striker to balance it. Hence a Warlock.

Touche. I overlooked the Stormwarden part. Definitely Warlock, in that case.
#29
Solodan
Dec 10, 2008 14:49:57 I'd say probably Rogue or Artificer, simply to get the Theivery skills (and I'm leaning toward Rogue)

Your group has all the roles covered, which is grand. It is missing a little bit of ranged ability and also has no class with Thievery in list.

Rogue can capitalize on the melee focus (So it'll be fun) and also fills in as a decent ranged guy since many of their powers are usable at range.
#30
williamhm75
Dec 10, 2008 16:46:10
I'd say probably Rogue or Artificer, simply to get the Theivery skills (and I'm leaning toward Rogue)

Your group has all the roles covered, which is grand. It is missing a little bit of ranged ability and also has no class with Thievery in list.

Rogue can capitalize on the melee focus (So it'll be fun) and also fills in as a decent ranged guy since many of their powers are usable at range.

Just thought Id point out that the warlock has thievery on its skill list.
#31
Hibiki54
Dec 10, 2008 17:52:56 For fluff you should make a Drow Rogue. Just to **** off the Eladrin in the group.
#32
LFK
Dec 10, 2008 18:20:28 Elf Archery Ranger.

BOOM headshot.
#33
williamhm75
Dec 10, 2008 18:40:24
For fluff you should make a Drow Rogue. Just to **** off the Eladrin in the group.

Drow dark pact lock would tick him off even more.
#34
midgardserpent
Dec 12, 2008 22:12:26 I'd say take the halfling artful dodger rogue. You have lots of melee already which makes flanking much easier. There's a paragon path that does your dex damage whenever an attack misses you. You should try to dance around marked enemies intentionally provoking AoO's to give the fighter free whacks when the enemies swing and almost always miss.
#35
wanderer3791
Dec 13, 2008 17:48:12 Thanks for all the great replies.

I decided to go with a human, artful dodger rogue who uses daggers (for both ranged and melee attacks) and eventually hitting daggermaster. He is going to be trained in Intimidate, so the MP rattling powers seem kind of fun. Maybe not the most optimized - but will be a blast to RP!

Thanks again everyone!
#36
midgardserpent
Dec 13, 2008 22:56:47 It makes very little sense to make a human artful dodger rogue. You'll get MUCH more out of being a halfling, especially using sly flourish.
#37
pogminky
Dec 16, 2008 13:34:56 Good choice! Rogues are fun.
#38
ciaran
Dec 16, 2008 14:04:55 In our 5 member party we have a warlord and a cleric and two others with a warlord or cleric multiclass healing ability. We still run close to dying every session. It depends on your DMs propensity for player killing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wanderer3791 Dec 09, 2008 13:02:20	We are just getting started with 4e, and our upcoming campaign will contain 5 PCs. This is what others have chosen so far: 1. Human - Wizard/Divine Oracle 2. Elf - Ranger/Stormwarden 3. Dwarf - Fighter/Iron Vanguard (hammers I think) 4. Human - Warlord (don't know what PP he will choose. I think he is leaning toward a CHA-based character though) 5. ?? Your Help is appreciated! That leaves me to make my call. What class/role are we missing? It looks like we have 1 of each role - but with my limited experience with 4e, any insight is appreciated. Should any of the above be modified? I have no idea what type of campaign it will be. I do know it is set in FR.
#2 Cpt_Micha Dec 09, 2008 13:08:34	There's quite a few choices you can go with for your fifth slot. I would say the least effective fifth choice would be a second leader (since the Cleric and Warlord seem to step on each other's toes alot) Even then though, the fifth guy seems really lucky since he gets the ultimate freedom to pick whatever class he wants to be.
#3 exposed_wires Dec 09, 2008 13:09:08	Ooooo I know I know! Whatever you want! Seriously, all your bases are covered. You're free to pick whatever you want. A martial character might be good cause the warlord favors melee people, but that's pretty well represented already. You could take this opportunity to playtest the barbarian or the bard or a just play the character that's been knocking around in your head for a while.
#4 johnnii Dec 09, 2008 13:18:48	I'd say a Rogue. I don't think role in this case will matter in combats, but the skills a rogue brings can be useful outside of those. Or ANY character with a Divine power source, just to and diversity in the party. For race, either Dragonborn, Tiefling or Genasi (if possible), to add more diversity. The races are rather stereotypical so it adds some nice flavor with either a "bestial", "bad-boy" or "mystical" race (not that it's a bad thing with a stereotypical party).
#5 drunk_yoda Dec 09, 2008 13:22:58	Assault Swordmage or one that is both melee and ranged like a rogue but your basics are covered so there is no prob what he is.
#6 griffonheart Dec 09, 2008 13:26:20	I'd say go for a Rogue since as his been said the skill portion of that hasn't really been covered. That said, they covered all the real bases already and if there is something you are excited about you should go ahead and play it.
#7 mercuryv Dec 09, 2008 13:29:20	There's quite a few choices you can go with for your fifth slot. I would say the least effective fifth choice would be a second leader (since the Cleric and Warlord seem to step on each other's toes alot) Even then though, the fifth guy seems really lucky since he gets the ultimate freedom to pick whatever class he wants to be. I wouldn't say Cleric would necessarily be least effective, as a ranged spell cleric would be very different on the field on combat to a warlord, extra healing power is always a great bonus, and those radiant powers are always nice against undead foes. A paladin may do just as well as a back-up healer however. That said... I agree any class would add well as you're already covering all the roles. Both the groups I play with have two strikers (Ranger & Rogue and Warlock & Rogue), which has worked well so far. You could also take into account skill roles (Warlock or Rogue for thievery?) I know a pre-gen group of characters on the WotC site has two fighters also - one 2h dragonborn and one 1h+shield human, so really anything goes.
#8 Dragoloth Dec 09, 2008 13:46:35	Artificer, the ability to recharge an item's daily power during a short rest is amazing. It's once per day plus once per milestone, but it's definately handy. They play like a leader with a lean towards controller. If you want to fill in the rogue gap train in thievery and have the ranger train in stealth.
#9 mycroftb Dec 09, 2008 13:49:29	I seem to recall somewhere in the books it was written that, if you already have your bases covered, another defender is a good choice. I can't find it, though, to see what other advice it'd give in the area. Just going with whatever you want is probably the best. Since you already know the other characters, it's easy to avoid overlapping another character exactly and looking like stealing their shtick.
#10 serphet Dec 09, 2008 13:51:45	another defender is nice, or another leader... (my players have 2 defenders two leaders and a controller... it's pretty hax)
#11 peteyrock Dec 09, 2008 13:59:02	I vote either Rogue or Warlock. A Defender and two Leaders ought to do a well enough job of keeping everyone's HP up. Plus, the Wizard should be able to handle large crowds. Rogue or Warlock will not only beef up the skills front, but also help in tackling dungeons and put major hurt on the solo/elite enemies.
#12 Kensan_Oni Dec 09, 2008 14:08:38	Hmmm... You have a multiclass Wizard/Cleric (?? Wow) and a Warlord, so you don't need more healing. You have a tough defender, and another melee combatant. I'd be tempted to run a Warlock or a Dagger Rogue under this situation. You have enough people in melee. Having another ranged option would be nice for your party.
#13 on_the_wings_of_tpk Dec 09, 2008 14:13:26	I'd recommend either big two handed fighter for extra damage with staying and stopping power, or rogue for the skill set (mostly thievery and bluff). Alternatively you can hold you're PHB approximately 3ft above your desk, spine down ward, and drop it. Play whatever class the book opens to. (If it doesn't open to a class right away, drop it again. However a little under half the book is the class chapter so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.)
#14 kerym_ammath Dec 09, 2008 14:42:52	Eladrin Swordmage would be my call. Assault or Shielding don't know. Either way you would get some maneuverability via several different teleport powers, marking powers, some really good at wills, and with the right feats and paragon paths either heavy damage, heavy defense, or seriously nasty marking ability. Of course I ma biased they are my favorite class. Regardless a second Defender is a major benefit, and if used right allows your primary defender to have even more staying power.
#15 undrave Dec 09, 2008 17:31:45	I'd say, if you want to go the 'assumed' five man party to get a ranged striker. A 'basic' 4e party is assume to include 1 of every role, and 2 different striker, one melee and one ranged. That's the ideal balance, anything else is still functionnal but you will need to realise it when dealing with tactics at the board. If you're about to go do Keep on the Shadowfell I highly recommand a Warlock with good debuff (like Star or Fey pact) because ranged attacks are VERY good in KotS. Either that or a STR Paladin with 2 or 3 lay on hands and good Radiant powers(of Pelor so you can grab the Channel Divinity feat for Pelor's Radiance to kill Undeads!)
#16 greatfrito Dec 09, 2008 17:45:50	I really don't have enough experience to really give a lot of suggestions, but... If the Warlord goes Tactical (instead of Inspiring), it could be very nice to have someone with massive melee basic attacks. A party I'm running through KotS uses a Greatweapon Fighter and TacLord together to deadly, deadly, effect. I'm also growing more and more fond of a Crossbow-rogue. With the Superior Crossbow (Adv.Vault), he's been the only character to score a complete one-shot-kill (first in initiative, Impact Shot encounter, 2d10+2d6+4, with good rolls, killed a halfling dead).
#17 jasondm Dec 09, 2008 17:51:17	I think any class would do well, but your party is a little short on halflings. /snicker
#18 exposed_wires Dec 09, 2008 17:53:03	Hey OP Whatever you decide to go with, will you tell all of us here? I'm sure we'd really appreciate.
#19 n647 Dec 09, 2008 19:51:44	hmmm the best advice I can give you, and I mean it ... don`t even thing about chosing based on wath the rest choose, just choose what interest you the most and with the builds and skills you think fit the char the best. Exposed_Wires say something similar and i agree, this is not about having the perfect party with all bases covered, but about having fun with the chars you create/imagine. allthe restgive good mechanical options and ll that, but at the end that`s not that important...
#20 Hibiki54 Dec 09, 2008 20:44:05	A Rogue, Warlock or Artificer may help enchance the party.
#21 Neutronium_Dragon Dec 09, 2008 21:00:08	An assault swordmage does seem like it would fit in well, but most classes will probably work as long as you give some thought to how they will synergize with the other members of the party.
#22 MusicOfCreation Dec 09, 2008 21:55:14	I'd say go Paladin of pretty much any build. DPR Paladin for ass kicking and back up healing or a Healadin for surgeless healing.
#23 ian_demagi Dec 10, 2008 9:11:17	I seem to recall somewhere in the books it was written that, if you already have your bases covered, another defender is a good choice. I can't find it, though, to see what other advice it'd give in the area. Just going with whatever you want is probably the best. Since you already know the other characters, it's easy to avoid overlapping another character exactly and looking like stealing their shtick. Page 15 of the PHB : "It’s a good idea to cover each role with at least one character. If you have five or six players in your group, it’s best to double up on defender first, then striker." _________________________________________________________________ It depends on what you want. Multiple marking sources is very powerful, but I like the idea of 2 strikers. So to split the difference, the new Barbarian class is a blend of both. I also like the ranged striker idea or a rogue. Ian
#24 williamhm75 Dec 10, 2008 10:23:30	Page 15 of the PHB : "It’s a good idea to cover each role with at least one character. If you have five or six players in your group, it’s best to double up on defender first, then striker." _________________________________________________________________ It depends on what you want. Multiple marking sources is very powerful, but I like the idea of 2 strikers. So to split the difference, the new Barbarian class is a blend of both. I also like the ranged striker idea or a rogue. Ian Id say go warlock or swordmage. Dark pact locks have good debuffs as well as really good damage.
#25 yrogerg Dec 10, 2008 10:47:55	As with others, I would suggest an extra striker, if you're truly indifferent. In particular, the synergy of a Warlord and three powerful Ranged basic attacks (Wizard, Ranger, and Warlock) is not something to be scoffed at. Barring that, though, balancing the Ranger with a melee striker such as a Rogue wouldn't be a bad idea, either. On the other hand, if you weren't feeling striker-ey, an extra defender- specifically, a Cha Paladin who could supplement the Warlord's healing in a pinch- wouldn't be a terrible thing, either.
#26 undrave Dec 10, 2008 11:26:48	As with others, I would suggest an extra striker, if you're truly indifferent. In particular, the synergy of a Warlord and three powerful Ranged basic attacks (Wizard, Ranger, and Warlock) is not something to be scoffed at. Barring that, though, balancing the Ranger with a melee striker such as a Rogue wouldn't be a bad idea, either. On the other hand, if you weren't feeling striker-ey, an extra defender- specifically, a Cha Paladin who could supplement the Warlord's healing in a pinch- wouldn't be a terrible thing, either. I'm pretty sure Stormwarden is a TWF path, which means their Ranger is melee so you'd need a Ranged striker to balance it. Hence a Warlock.
#27 joydyhee Dec 10, 2008 11:34:54	This is purely an example and not meant to endorse any particular class - whatever you choose will help to make a memorable experience, uncover some hidden challenges of the combination of your party and (hopefully) uncover some hidden benefits! Also, this is an examination of the combat prowess of the group - the non-combat side cannot be measured as easily looking at just class/role. I am running a campaign with a striker (ranger), a defender (paladin), a controller (wizard), and, until recently, two leaders (cleric and warlord). The party was VERY hardy with the two leaders, as the warlord (inspiring build) was always in melee with the fighter, leaving the ranger, wizard, and cleric more open to use ranged/support abilities. When necessary, the cleric waded into melee, but that was rare. The ranger NEVER went into melee (twin-shot!) and the only time the wizard got anywhere near melee was to increase the effectiveness of his area attacks (including dragon breath - he is a dragonborn). The warlord has since passed on from the mortal realm, and his player decided to try a different concept - a warlock. With this new combo, the cleric finds himself taking a more direct role in melee as the warlock is obviously more squishy than the warlord and cannot afford to stay in melee for several of his favorite powers.
#28 yrogerg Dec 10, 2008 11:46:12	I'm pretty sure Stormwarden is a TWF path, which means their Ranger is melee so you'd need a Ranged striker to balance it. Hence a Warlock. Touche. I overlooked the Stormwarden part. Definitely Warlock, in that case.
#29 Solodan Dec 10, 2008 14:49:57	I'd say probably Rogue or Artificer, simply to get the Theivery skills (and I'm leaning toward Rogue) Your group has all the roles covered, which is grand. It is missing a little bit of ranged ability and also has no class with Thievery in list. Rogue can capitalize on the melee focus (So it'll be fun) and also fills in as a decent ranged guy since many of their powers are usable at range.
#30 williamhm75 Dec 10, 2008 16:46:10	I'd say probably Rogue or Artificer, simply to get the Theivery skills (and I'm leaning toward Rogue) Your group has all the roles covered, which is grand. It is missing a little bit of ranged ability and also has no class with Thievery in list. Rogue can capitalize on the melee focus (So it'll be fun) and also fills in as a decent ranged guy since many of their powers are usable at range. Just thought Id point out that the warlock has thievery on its skill list.
#31 Hibiki54 Dec 10, 2008 17:52:56	For fluff you should make a Drow Rogue. Just to **** off the Eladrin in the group.
#32 LFK Dec 10, 2008 18:20:28	Elf Archery Ranger. BOOM headshot.
#33 williamhm75 Dec 10, 2008 18:40:24	For fluff you should make a Drow Rogue. Just to **** off the Eladrin in the group. Drow dark pact lock would tick him off even more.
#34 midgardserpent Dec 12, 2008 22:12:26	I'd say take the halfling artful dodger rogue. You have lots of melee already which makes flanking much easier. There's a paragon path that does your dex damage whenever an attack misses you. You should try to dance around marked enemies intentionally provoking AoO's to give the fighter free whacks when the enemies swing and almost always miss.
#35 wanderer3791 Dec 13, 2008 17:48:12	Thanks for all the great replies. I decided to go with a human, artful dodger rogue who uses daggers (for both ranged and melee attacks) and eventually hitting daggermaster. He is going to be trained in Intimidate, so the MP rattling powers seem kind of fun. Maybe not the most optimized - but will be a blast to RP! Thanks again everyone!
#36 midgardserpent Dec 13, 2008 22:56:47	It makes very little sense to make a human artful dodger rogue. You'll get MUCH more out of being a halfling, especially using sly flourish.
#37 pogminky Dec 16, 2008 13:34:56	Good choice! Rogues are fun.
#38 ciaran Dec 16, 2008 14:04:55	In our 5 member party we have a warlord and a cleric and two others with a warlord or cleric multiclass healing ability. We still run close to dying every session. It depends on your DMs propensity for player killing.