Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 seradane Feb 23, 2009 19:46:23	Ok, so you trigger an opportunity attack when you use a ranged, or aoe attack power, as per the ph. the ph also describes aoe attacks as burst and blast attacks. my issue is that, some burst powers, which center on YOU, are DESIGNED to be used within close range, so my problem is, why am I being punished for using a power the way it was intended? why do i have to incur opportunity attacks against me for using a power at close range, designed for being used at close range?
#2 Neutronium_Dragon Feb 23, 2009 19:48:40	You draw OAs when you use a power with the Ranged or Area keywords. Close powers do not draw OAs. It doesn't matter whether they affect multiple targets or not.
#3 Ramien Feb 23, 2009 19:48:56	Ok, so you trigger an opportunity attack when you use a ranged, or aoe attack power, as per the ph. the ph also describes aoe attacks as burst and blast attacks. my issue is that, some burst powers, which center on YOU, are DESIGNED to be used within close range, so my problem is, why am I being punished for using a power the way it was intended? why do i have to incur opportunity attacks against me for using a power at close range, designed for being used at close range? Read the book again. You provoke opportunity attacks for ranged and area attacks. Close and Melee attacks do not provoke opportunity attacks.
#4 seradane Feb 23, 2009 19:55:26	ok so any area attack that has "close" in it doesn't provoke oa right? close attacks are good to go, regardless of their aoe like properties?
#5 Ramien Feb 23, 2009 20:07:32	ok so any area attack that has "close" in it doesn't provoke oa right? close attacks are good to go, regardless of their aoe like properties? Part of your confusion seems to involve the word 'area'. 'Area' means something very specific in 4th ed - specifically an effect (usually but not always a burst) that originates in a square other than the creator of the effect. Using Area attacks provokes an opportunity attack. Close effects, on the other hand, create effects that originate in the effect creator's square and spread around the creator (burst), or in a particular direction (blast). These do not provoke opportunity attacks.
#6 Crimson_Concerto Feb 23, 2009 20:11:59	"Close" and "Area" are not the same thing. At all. "Area" provokes OAs. "Close" does not. There is nothing that is both a "Close" and an "Area" attack.
#7 seradane Feb 23, 2009 20:22:09	thanks for the clarification guys. next issue, what's up with the sword mage, a tank class, meant to protect party members, having attacks that do close burst to every *creature* in burst, not just enemies. man is that silly.
#8 oxybe Feb 23, 2009 20:30:55	all of the swordmage's "close burst" attacks are Target:each enemy in burst. his "close blast" attacks however, are target:each creature in blast. which is standard operating procedure for close blasts & bursts. close bursts are made to be used when you have several enemies around you, as it allows a more selective targeting... you're not blindingly swinging. close blasts are made to be used when you have several enemies in front of you, it's a more pray & spray effect. either way, as a swordmage, you're expected to be up in the mess of things, bursting & blasting when appropriate.
#9 Ramien Feb 23, 2009 20:31:19	I just double checked in the compendium, and see not a single close burst in the swordmage repertoire that would harm allies. A close blast or two, yes, but those are directed. Edit: Ninja'd with much more clarity by oxybe. The perils of posting at work.
#10 seradane Feb 23, 2009 20:35:06	Flame Cyclone, level one encounter says Target: Each creature in blast. It's because it's a blast spell I guess. What the hell is up with my reading comprehension tonight? I think I'll stop posting for tonight and just play some left 4 dead.
#11 Nautilus Feb 23, 2009 20:47:20	Flame Cyclone, level one encounter says Target: Each creature in blast. It's because it's a blast spell I guess. What the hell is up with my reading comprehension tonight? I think I'll stop posting for tonight and just play some left 4 dead. If it makes you feel any better, you're not the only person on the boards to make that mistake regarding the swordmage. In fact, I think just about every close burst power targets enemies only, except for those which are meant to target a party member.
#12 seradane Feb 23, 2009 21:26:17	ok one more question. i know that a close burst spell centers on you and explodes outword, but what does area burst mean? the whirlwind genasi has powers that have "area, burst". how does this spell work, as opposed to close, burst?
#13 Nautilus Feb 23, 2009 21:30:43	Basically, 'area burst' means that you choose the origin square, which must be within the spell's range. You could theoretically choose the square you're in as the origin, but in most cases this wouldn't be very smart. So the whirlwind genasi might say "I will place my area burst's origin in the square next to that goblin."
#14 seradane Feb 23, 2009 21:46:39	but those types of spells usually say area burst within X amount of squares, letting you choose the origin point within the range. the genasi spell just says area burst 2, as opposed to a typical wizard spell that says area burst 2 within x squares.
#15 Nautilus Feb 23, 2009 21:53:18	but those types of spells usually say area burst within X amount of squares, letting you choose the origin point within the range. the genasi spell just says area burst 2, as opposed to a typical wizard spell that says area burst 2 within x squares. I'm checking the genasi racial powers on the Compendium, but none of them say 'area burst 2'. What's the spell's name? EDIT: If you mean Tumbling Gale, that's been errata'd to have a range of 10 squares.
#16 seradane Feb 23, 2009 22:31:25	I'm checking the genasi racial powers on the Compendium, but none of them say 'area burst 2'. What's the spell's name? EDIT: If you mean Tumbling Gale, that's been errata'd to have a range of 10 squares. lol yeah that's the one I was talking about. errata ftw, thanks!
#17 sjmcc13 Feb 23, 2009 22:47:42	EDIT: If you mean Tumbling Gale, that's been errata'd to have a range of 10 squares. Lesson here, check errata before asking quesitons???
#18 ddogwood Feb 23, 2009 23:29:34	Lesson here, check errata before asking quesitons??? No, even if you check errata you can easily miss something.
#19 jimthegray Feb 23, 2009 23:34:47	lol yeah that's the one I was talking about. errata ftw, thanks! on a side note , sword mages are great fun to play once you get the feel for them, multi well into wizard also
#20 Seeker95 Feb 24, 2009 6:34:28	No, even if you check errata you can easily miss something. But checking the errata first likely removes "it's in the errata" from the list of things you might miss.
#21 sapient Feb 24, 2009 7:36:55	But checking the errata first likely removes "it's in the errata" from the list of things you might miss. On this sidetopic, I would prefer the boards not to be full of rudeness and cries of "check the errata before asking, will ya!". (Not that that attitude is necessary from what you wrote, but could easily be the case.) Okay, that might mean that a bit more questions about basic issues will be posted - but that is also one of the things I find the boards most useful for. There are often interesting and new notions in peoples replies - and sometimes the rules still needs to be interpreted to be understood, which the errata may or may not help. I think the OP:s question was good, the information provided that Area and Close are defined terms and not generic words in the rules would be useful to a lot of people - I myself miss those things from time to time. So it adds value to the forums. If on the other hand "newbee" questions are a bother to you, I suggest ignoring threads that might be about them instead of trying to create informal rules that people new to the forum still won't know about. Only my two cents...
#22 ddogwood Feb 24, 2009 12:21:13	But checking the errata first likely removes "it's in the errata" from the list of things you might miss. ... unless you miss something. I would rather see people post questions that can be answered by saying "it's in the errata" than feel that posting a question is going to subject them to snide comments and derision from other forum members. It's not that I think people shouldn't bother checking the errata, but this site isn't so well-organized and intuitive that only a fool wouldn't think to check the errata first.
#23 Seeker95 Feb 24, 2009 13:38:19	... unless you miss something. I would rather see people post questions that can be answered by saying "it's in the errata" I would prefer the boards not to be full of rudeness and cries of "check the errata before asking, will ya!". Damn people. Your responses would lead one to believe you object to someone checking the errata before they come to the Boards with their question.
#24 ddogwood Feb 24, 2009 16:32:39	Damn people. Your responses would lead one to believe you object to someone checking the errata before they come to the Boards with their question. See my post immediately above yours. I only object to people chastising other forum members for asking legitimate questions.
#25 Seeker95 Feb 24, 2009 16:55:13	I only object to people chastising other forum members for asking legitimate questions. That's all well and good, but this is a topic-based discussion thread that didn't include anyone chastising anyone else for not checking the errata (except the OP chastising himself). The objections to chastisement seemed a little out of place.
#26 ddogwood Feb 24, 2009 22:18:40	That's all well and good, but this is a topic-based discussion thread that didn't include anyone chastising anyone else for not checking the errata (except the OP chastising himself). The objections to chastisement seemed a little out of place. Look back at my first post in the thread.
#27 Seeker95 Feb 25, 2009 6:52:49	Look back at my first post in the thread. I'm sorry. I forgot you were the only person participating in this thread.