So I'm playing my 1st 4e game as a player after DMing for a while and I was wondering. Do you have any advice for moving from one side of the screen to the other?
It'll be my first time going through the keep on the shadowfell with a new DM who is fairly new to the system (and a few players who are new too - although there's at least one other veteran who'll know the rules backwards). I'm interested to see if it's as tough as people make it sound. (I hope so. My Battlemind needs a proper challange on his first trip out.)
Are there any common mistakes DM's make when they become players? Are there just and common player problems I should watch myself for? I have to say I was blessed with mostly attentive, enthusiastic players when I was DMing.
Each DM needs to make their world their own. That includes their own interpretation of the rules, their own monster strategies and tactics, and their own idea of how the world works. Never anticipate that something will work a certain way just because, as DM, you would have done it that way.
Also, try to curb the natural instinct to try to sway the DM into doing things the way you would have done them. Being new, he may need help finding a given rule but interpretation should be the DM's call so let him learn to do that part on his own.
Lastly, do your best to seperate player knowledge from character knowledge. As a DM you may know considerably more about monsters, modules, etc than a typical player. That means you will have to work harder than most players to not let that knowledge influence your character's actions.
So I'm playing my 1st 4e game as a player after DMing for a while and I was wondering. Do you have any advice for moving from one side of the screen to the other?
It'll be my first time going through the keep on the shadowfell with a new DM who is fairly new to the system (and a few players who are new too - although there's at least one other veteran who'll know the rules backwards). I'm interested to see if it's as tough as people make it sound. (I hope so. My Battlemind needs a proper challange on his first trip out.)
Are there any common mistakes DM's make when they become players? Are there just and common player problems I should watch myself for? I have to say I was blessed with mostly attentive, enthusiastic players when I was DMing.
You're going to get excited about the battlemind then dissapointed as your powers all work slightly different then you would think from first reading them.
Don't assume anything!
Each DM needs to make their world their own. That includes their own interpretation of the rules, their own monster strategies and tactics, and their own idea of how the world works. Never anticipate that something will work a certain way just because, as DM, you would have done it that way.
Also, try to curb the natural instinct to try to sway the DM into doing things the way you would have done them. Being new, he may need help finding a given rule but interpretation should be the DM's call so let him learn to do that part on his own.
Lastly, do your best to seperate player knowledge from character knowledge. As a DM you may know considerably more about monsters, modules, etc than a typical player. That means you will have to work harder than most players to not let that knowledge influence your character's actions.
Good advice.
You might extend the offer prior to the game beginning that you are available to help point out where a rule can be found should he need help looking for something.
As a player, like any player, you are entitled to consistent rules and if you have an issue you should talk it over with the DM between games. However, make sure that issue is about the fun of the game, not because you would have ruled different if you were the DM.
Beyond that, kick back and look at this as an opportunity to relax and to be inspired by someone else.
Also, don't be that player who ticked you off while you were DMing (whatever his personality problem or quirk that make you want to mutilate him was).
I think it should be fine. Only issue is to go in with an open mind and remember that other DMs have different values and strategies, so if they are different from you, don't think of it as them doing wrong, judge them on their own merits. Granted, some still suck....
I thought this was going to be like, well, coming out to your players as gay. I even had a big speech about how it shouldn't be a problem but that if you did, congrats and hopefully they are accepting. I guess I need to rethink my response then.
I think it should be fine. Only issue is to go in with an open mind and remember that other DMs have different values and strategies, so if they are different from you, don't think of it as them doing wrong, judge them on their own merits. Granted, some still suck....
I am the master of the double entendre.
Also, thankyou to everyone for their sound advice.
Remember how you feel when a player 'corrects you'. Remember how it felt and don't do it yourself now
If your DM makes an error, mention it quietly, and don't argue with them over it.
Don't be the bane of all gaming, a rules lawyer.
One of the hardest things for me to do in transition from DM to player is not to analize what the DM is doing as a DM. It is a similar problem I have heard from people like writters and directors in the fact if they go se a movie or read a book it is hard for them to look at the story as they get caught up in the how the author or director is doing things.
Everybody pretty much already offered all the advice I was going to give. So I'll just add listen to it. It is good advice.
One of the hardest things for me to do in transition from DM to player is not to analyze what the DM is doing as a DM. It is a similar problem I have heard from people like writters and directors in the fact if they go se a movie or read a book it is hard for them to look at the story as they get caught up in the how the author or director is doing things.
Excellent analogy. I'm amongst other things a fiction writer for the past 30 years. I can't read a book any more without popping out of my suspension of disbelief to take note of the writer's language usage, plot points, etc. I make myself pretty crazy because I can't figure out how not to notice this kind of stuff - sometimes because its sheer brilliance and I want to emulate it, sometimes because it strikes a dischordant note.
About 6 years ago I started playing another DM's campaign, and it was sometimes HARD to stop analyzing and just be a player. Fortunately he was a fantastic DM, so most of my moments of that were when I was impressed with his sheer brilliance as an actor, tactician and fiendish plotter.
Several years back I learned another very important lesson in this regard, in an area of my life that had nothing to do with D&D but is pertinent in this and many other areas of life: Assume Good Motive. Assume that whyever somene is doing something, at their heart its in the hope of creating a fun experience.
If you go around assuming that someone is "out to get you" you will tend to react at them as an antagonist. Unlike previous editions, 4e has at least come out and said, "the DM is not the enemy, but the co-storyteller." It's important that this is a 2-way street, and that the player comes from this perspective too, not the DM. As a former DM/player, this mindset might be even more challenging, especially if you've been the antagonist-DM sort.
You can focus on, "I would have done it this way" or you can focus on "wow that was nifty, wish I'd thought of it and kudos to him." Either mindset will affect the game you play.
As a friend of mine says (he's a master hypnotist, but that's no reason to believe him - completely) "what you focus on is what you tend to create."
Excellent analogy. I'm amongst other things a fiction writer for the past 30 years. I can't read a book any more without popping out of my suspension of disbelief to take note of the writer's language usage, plot points, etc. I make myself pretty crazy because I can't figure out how not to notice this kind of stuff - sometimes because its sheer brilliance and I want to emulate it, sometimes because it strikes a dischordant note.
I had an in at Disneyworld that could have gotten me an imagineering position with them years ago. I turned it down for much the same reason. I was afraid that working there would "pop the bubble" for me and I wouldn't be able to just enjoy the illusion anymore.
So he bought a pre-published module (which I normally avoid, but I have my own established campaign world), and we made characters and ran through it. I tried to keep my input to myself, but he did occasionally ask for my advice, especially on rules clarifications. As the adventure progressed, he started to make his own calls without help.
One of my other players moved away to another state, and he's currently starting to DM himself, and he calls me all the time for rules clarifications, but I also encourage him to develop creatively, which he is starting to do well.
Narrow your view. That might sound like bad advice, but think about it.
As a DM role-playing, you have a lot of juggling. As a PC, you can go deeper without needing to switch out suddenly.
Maybe you DM'ed a group which kept losing the plot. See if your character can help the group stay focused.
Maybe they would "break character" in somber RP situations. Maybe you can avoid that with your PC.
Maybe they refused to bite on a plot hook NO MATTER WHAT. Your PC can be the one who is motivated.
As a DM, you will be a bit more aware of those situations. As a player, now you can help a brother out.
See if you can be the "new DM" ace in the hole. Think back to all of the points where you, as a DM, got stuck, and see if you, as a player, can help out.
Maybe you DM'ed a group which kept losing the plot. See if your character can help the group stay focused.
Maybe they would "break character" in somber RP situations. Maybe you can avoid that with your PC.
Maybe they refused to bite on a plot hook NO MATTER WHAT. Your PC can be the one who is motivated.
As a DM, you will be a bit more aware of those situations. As a player, now you can help a brother out.
Possibly the best advice on this thread!