Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pmurray%40bigpond.com May 01, 2008 18:54:28	A few weeks ago I rolled a 1 on the cure light wounds roll and was desperately tempted to flick the die onto a different face, but I resisted. Wednesday night, I arguably rolled a 2 on my hp for level 3 ... but it was on a surface uneven enough that I claimed the die was cocked. The reroll was a 7. In my heart, I know that if that first roll had been good, I would have taken it.
#2 farsouth May 01, 2008 20:45:25	I know exactly how you feel. Less important for a one-off cure spell, but when you're rolling hit points - particularly at early levels - and know it will have a permanent effect on your characters...well, I'd quite possibly do exactly what you did.
#3 khazzan May 01, 2008 21:53:07	For the first 3 levels, our DM lets us take the maximum hit points, since at those levels, an angry housecat could end or character's lives... As far as dice roll fudging goes, meh, I've never been one to bother since I assume the odds come back around my way eventually anyhow. I recognize the temptation to do so though.
#4 ryguysolis May 01, 2008 22:53:34	In my first 3e campaign I wanted my rogue to die because I had an idea for another character. I rolled a 19 on my fort against a poison. Nobody was looking so I claimed a 9. Rest in peace Ladron, rest in peace. I don't fudge when DMing though, even cheats have standards.
#5 zeratulcraft May 01, 2008 22:59:06	I rolled a few one's on my hitpoints. I then laughed and remembered it was just a game, I later adjusted/improved my tactics so as to avoid me being directly in harms way.
#6 navar100 May 01, 2008 23:19:37	I could never cheat without anyone knowing. I'd know. :P Previous campaign I rolled a 1 on a d20 at the absolute worst time it could happen. No one else saw the roll. I could have said it was any number, but I didn't. It meant a TPK by the end of the round, but I couldn't cheat. I hate the TPK, but the guilt would have been much worse. You need to have a risk of loss in order for the victories to be enjoyed. The flaw in the plan is that once in a while, the loss actually happens.
#7 salla May 01, 2008 23:26:58	When I was younger, I used to. I think we all did when we were younger, though ... it's just something gamer larvae do, I suppose. I always ask for point buy and the average HP rule when games start, though I don't always get it. One of the more entertaining 'dice mis-reads' I ever did was when sitting next to someone who we all suspected was cheating at darn near everything. He was having his usual fantastic 'luck', and I rolled my attack roll clearly in his view: Natural 20 on a heavily power-attacked two-handed Greatsword swing. "I missed." I later remarked to him that it's no fun if it's too easy, but he didn't take the hint.
#8 dragonsblood May 02, 2008 2:11:58	I think 4ed is getting rid of HP rolls. Good riddance I say.
#9 etarnon May 02, 2008 2:53:46	I don't cheat the system. If the PC has got 2 HP left and gets hit for 13, and my PC is thus dead at -11, that's the way it goes, roll up a new one. A chance to play a completely different role.
#10 katarl May 02, 2008 6:02:58	There's always one member of the party that always rolls over 20 for initiative, always rolls higher than 15 on every roll, and never fails a save or check. Funny that.
#11 raxxman May 02, 2008 6:59:33	Never really cheated, but did have a dice that seemed to enjoy rolling 18 a lot.
#12 narack May 02, 2008 7:25:22	In my games we house rule the minimum hp you can have is half your hit dice. You still roll it but any number under half is consider half. on D8 the hp you can gain is between 4 to 8. all roll under 4 are consider 4.
#13 fenrir_greyback May 02, 2008 8:10:05	I never usually run into the cheating problem, as it usually turns out that I can't roll badly in the situations of highest need. I have witnesses too. Last session my DM made me sit under her nose, and during an entire encounter I don't think I rolled anything under 14. She could've throttled me.
#14 roguewiz_dup May 02, 2008 8:13:53	There have been times where I've fudged some rolls, particularly when I know it is something that would kill me. Like, climbing up a wall w/o rope, and failing the roll really bad. (bad enough, that I might fall). For the most part, I try to avoid it. I know some of the players I've played with in the past, fudge their rolls like you wouldn't believe.
#15 crixon May 02, 2008 8:18:23	I myself have never cheated at dnd, computer games in my youth yes but not dnd, its no fun to cheat at it because at that point it becomes pointless to play, the fun of dnd is the risk involved, of failing or dieing, :P in the current campaign we are playing now (homebrewed up the max) im an earth elemental caster and we jumped off a cliff in an air city (updrafts are what is suppost to carry us in) well i rolled horrid at the beginning, then couldnt roll higher then a 10, dam near died if it wernt for another party member who jumped out (we have dragon forms but had to learn them, i new mine at the time just didnt want to change :P) ah good times :P
#16 robbypants May 02, 2008 9:37:18	I almost always DM, and seldom get the chance to actually play. I've adopted a zero-fudge rule, and actually roll in front of the players. Because of this, I don't cheat when playing. I don't think I'd enjoy the game as much if I did. Plus, I have way more character ideas than I have chances to play them, so if a PC dies, I get to make one of those new characters I've been thinking about for months!
#17 mercurius May 02, 2008 10:26:43	When I first started, back during 2nd edition, I certainly wanted to, though I can't remember if I did. As a player (which is very rare), I don't cheat at all nowadays, and I often point out when things should actually be disadvantageous for us. As a DM, I fudge dice frequently, based on the way the game is going. I don't want players to lose their characters because the dice keep rolling 20s for me and 2s for them. There's no fun in dying fighting mooks because you can't roll anything right for one night. If the players are stupid? Yeah, I'll let 'em die then, but I pull punches when there's just no way they are at fault for their loss.
#18 whw4 May 02, 2008 10:37:56	Our group does this: When you level, everyone at the table rolls your hit-die, you going first. If you max it, or get one-off max... that's your hit points. Other than that if someone else gets one-off max, you keep that. Obviously works better with small groups, since the more people rolling, the more likely you'll get max.
#19 twistedpuppy May 02, 2008 11:23:12	As for the problem of rolling "1"s on cure spells and for HP, as a DM I just head the temptation off at the pass: on cure spells and HP rolls you get to re-roll a result of "1" - once. I also allow cure spells cast by a character (not wands or scrolls) to heal max HP if used out of combat. Only exception is on HP rolls for a new character, then I give max 1st level HP and avg + 1/2 (3 for wiz/sorc, 4 for rog/bard, 5 for cleric/ranger, etc.) + Con bonus per level. If the player wants to roll his HP fine, but he doesn't get to re-roll any ones. Call it a penalty for looking a gift horse in the mouth.
#20 shaggy_shaggs May 02, 2008 11:27:45	Yeah, when I was larval I'd cheat sometimes, more to avoid embarassment than save my character's ass (nothing like going for pure overkill with a 1/day ability to show off to the other PCs, and then missing). Then I got a bit more familiar with the rules and decided it was better to just build up a character who was very unlikely to make himself look bad like that, rather than cheating for it. Makes the wins sweeter, too. Most recent cheat I can think of might not have been cheating, depending on how you look at it. I played a delusional dual-caster character with phenomenal mental ability scores (rolled stats produced 14, 17, 15, 18, 17, 17, legitimately, I nearly had a heart attack) and tended to ignore the successful results of knowledge/sense motive/spot/listen checks and the like, just go do my own thing since the character was kinda supposed to be off in his own little world. I mean I needed the Wis for divine casting, but a guy who stops and asks for directions from a tree without any magical effect to give the tree ability to talk, isn't really going to be a living lie detector.
#21 gentlemanic May 02, 2008 16:09:51	Nah.. I hate cheating. For hitpoints we take avarages, which is pretty fair IMO. As a DM I fudge rolls at times for dramatic effect (bad guy tries to escape on a 2+, rolls 1 and trips.. Not much fun).
#22 MrCustomer May 02, 2008 18:15:11	Wednesday night, I arguably rolled a 2 on my hp for level 3 ... but it was on a surface uneven enough that I claimed the die was cocked. The reroll was a 7. In my heart, I know that if that first roll had been good, I would have taken it. Well if the roll for your hit points worries you, then you can ask your DM about doing the alternate system of just taking the average hp each level. That is instead of rolling a 1d8, just take 4 each level and be done with it. All in all a roll of 2 for hps no big deal, it is all odds after all and in the end they even up. You roll a 2 on this level a 7 the next then 5 then 3 etc etc and in the end statistics catch up and you end up with an average roll of about 4 anyways. Instead of worrying about rolling low numbers, or cheating, which only will backfire if you get caught and which really decreases the satisfaction of the game (after all you didn't win, you lost and cheated) what you should work on is making sure the odds are on your side instead. For example, if your Cleric worshiped The Laughing Rogue, then you would have access to the Luck domain and could re-roll any roll once a day. Or if you can use the Complete Rogue book and access some of the Luck Feats you could give yourself a few options for re-rolling when you get a bad roll. Another way is to illiminate the roll or increase your odds for critical moments. A metamagic rod or maximize can be used 3 times a day to obtain the maximum die roll of a spell, or a Empowering Rod which does 1.5 times the roll. In a situation where that is critical such a rod would come in handy for ensuring you can heal for the full amount instead of rolling a 1d8. The rods stack with the meta magical feats, so if you were to say pick up the feat Sudden Maximize (Complete Mage), and had a Empower rod, and the Healing Domain, you would cast Cure Light Wounds at 1d8+4, maximized is 12 and empowered is 18hps. So rather then cheat, control your odds so you don't need to ceaht in those circumstances where you really need a good number.
#23 Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi May 02, 2008 19:39:49	Yeah . . . but only when I was creating all the PCs for a one-shot I was DMing. Man, were those some bad hp rolls. Especially if they'll be facing harder stuff to compensate for using the "epic destinies at non-epic levels" option.
#24 mcnormalguy May 02, 2008 22:00:50	Have not cheated, although been tempted to at times, but since it is a game I sort of like to lose part of the time for it makes the parts when we win more satisfying. Ironically I have been accused of cheating in the rolling of character attributes, with nothing below a 14. (4d6 take out lowest) To the group's annoyance when I willingly re-rolled them I ended up with nothing less than a 16. :D
#25 death1942 May 03, 2008 5:49:24	depends on how "cocked" that it was. describe how it was cocked and then i can judge whether you cheated or not (as long as you repent its ok :D )
#26 kelvinaw273 May 03, 2008 7:54:21	Nope, sorry, don't do it as a player. I always use a rule for hit points (average, max at 1st then x-per level), point buy, so that only conflict/interaction are governed by dice. As a DM, yes, I sometimes cheat ... usually in favour of the party/the story, never against the players though. That would just be mean.
#27 ethelion May 03, 2008 9:18:54	We go by these rules HP Rolls must be witnessed by 2 players or the DM. Any dice my be rolled in the 'dice box' which actually happens to be a white board. These must be taken as face value. The DM may choose to roll behind a screen, but it is preferable that important rolls be rolled in the box. There are to be no 'backsies' if you forget a 'buffed' ability (Bard's music, aid). However 'backsies' may apply if there was an immunity etc that would affect the round. You have until the next Monster turn to make this 'backsies' clear to the DM and player. Take this for instance on Thursday. We're fightning a DM generated orb of doom, a mini-boss and 7 minions. Me and the Druid and the Ranger decide to fight the orb of doom and the other lads waylay the minions. The DM announces after we hit it on some rolls, the armour class, and that the player that does the most damage gets targeted with it's first of four attacks which has harm on it. When reduced to X hitpoints it has a few special abilities. Such as insanity. I roll a one on my will save (Failure) but my will save modifier is high enough to count as a pass. I also happen to be immune to insanity. Further on, I've just been harmed to 1 hp and the monster uses Power Word:Stun. 4d4 rounds. At this point I cry a little since he rolls 12 and I'm on 1 hp and mostly useless for a while. I do however have a quick look to counter it. I recall whilst still in the current turn Spell Resistance from Visage of the Deity, which is quite promptly beaten. Then a few player rounds pass, before I remember that as a Church Inquisitor I am immune to compulsions (ie power-words). So 'backsies' are allowed if it's a critical gamechanging effect, given time, and the current status is alterable. I also once rolled a 6 and claimed it to be a 9 so I'd not take permanent wisdom damage.
#28 eldritch_lord May 03, 2008 9:42:35	The second DM I played under was a notorious cheater; we knew he cheated, he knew we knew he cheated, and he didn't care. By the time that game dissolved, I'd developed a great distaste for cheating such that as soon as I started DMing I made myself go with a roll-in-the-open policy. There have been a few times where fudging would have averted a TPK, but we got through them and I would have regretted fudging more than the TPK.
#29 insaneengineer May 03, 2008 20:07:57	I recall one game years ago where there was a total party kill. the dm then told everyone that they all wake up back at the last camp from a shared nightmare
#30 kallionastiryne May 04, 2008 10:26:24	I never cheat. On a Fort Save, I rolled a 1 and was honest, and got my Con drained down to 9 when it was originally 15. I rolled 3 ones in a row once and didn't cheat. But as the DM, I fudge dice a lot to make the missions better. (I just got a new player and a zombie got an instant kill on him. I fudged.)
#31 thorofasgard13 May 04, 2008 10:49:32	I actually cheat all the time on dice rolls, but only as a DM. I have this nasty habit of rolling natural 20s all the time, sometimes a few in a row, even as a PC. I just bump them down to a 19. I cheat so the BBEG doesn't go crit-happy and kill off all the players.:evillaugh
#32 daeva May 05, 2008 0:36:40	i love posting this on cheat threads! i've never been in a rolling for stats group that didn't make these statistics and chances seem way too low... players always cheat in character creation unless done in front of everyone else... i use point buy now. try to appreciate the work it took me to do the math for all this not to mention triple check everything >.> With 4d6, drop the lowest, here are some statistics. chance to roll. 18 1.62% 17 4.17% 16 7.25% 15 10.11% 14 12.34% 13 13.27% 12 12.58% 11 11.42% 10 9.41% 9 7.33% 8 4.78% 7 2.93% 6 1.62% 5 0.77% 4 0.31% 3 0.08% 98.38 chance to roll below 18 90.66 % chance to not get an 18 at all chance for 2 are 0.87 % chance, for three is 0.081% chance 94.21 chance to roll below 17 69.91% chance to not get a 17 or 18 chance for 2 or more 17 or 18 is 9.05% for 3 its 2.72% 4 its 0.8% 86.96 chance to roll below 16 43.24% chance to not get a 16-18 at all chance for 2 16+ 32.21% for three is 18.28% 4 is 10% 5 5.89% 6 3.34% 76.85 chance to roll below 15 20.6% chance to not get an 15-18 at all chance for 2 15+ 63.04% for 3 50.05% 4 39.74% for 5 31.56% 6 25.07% 64.51 chance to roll below 14 7.2 % chance to not get a 14-18 at all Regarding the point buy system, if you consider a 7 to be worth -1 points and each point below that to be worth one point less than the former, the standard rolling system will produce a 28.47 point value character whose stats are an average of 12.24 each.
#33 drackthor May 05, 2008 1:30:13	There's always one member of the party that always rolls over 20 for initiative, always rolls higher than 15 on every roll, and never fails a save or check. Funny that. But never, ever you.
#34 cheesiem0nkies May 05, 2008 7:14:56	I confess as a die cheat I try to do it only as DM, but...well y'all know I also confess on behalf of 2 other players in my group We discourage cheating but really dont stop consitently (mainly because of habit), so there is an AD Hoc XP penalty if you get caught
#35 Krusk May 05, 2008 13:58:32	The closest I come to cheating, is on a fight that is supposed to go dramatically, on occasion I will have the enemies health be just enough to make it one more round. Similarly if a pc would be dropped dead at low levels thanks to a lucky crit, I may on say ok, you are down to -8 and falling. Thats it, and only when I DM. When i play and dm i keep all rolls out in the open, as I have been known to hit the occasional lucky streak. Funny how thats the one people assume your cheating on, not the unlucky streak that follows it.
#36 kuros81 May 05, 2008 14:48:19	Cheating in DnD is really frikkin sad. So sad that I don't think I'd call another player out on it. But then again, I started DnD in college. Maybe some of you teens on here cheat. Just make sure you grow out of it by the time you're 20. I do agree that HP rolls need to go.