Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zerazar Jul 31, 2009 21:44:08	So I've got a character with lots of arcana. Eladrin, skill focus, background (albeit only +1, GM limited backgrounds to 4 custom made ones), book imp. So I'm running around with a sexy +24, just entering Paragorn levels. And my GM told me that I'd be allowed to do something fun with it. Soo.. Anyone got some good ideas? I'd have a tough time sneaking munchkinning past him, but he loves fluff. If it's relevant my character is on a pursuit for knowledge, you know, the classic stuff. Maxed int, high wis, trained in every knowledge skill.
#2 Seeker95 Jul 31, 2009 22:01:25	I would suggest that in some circles, it can be used as a substitute for other skills: Insight or Perception (noticing glyphs in an archaic form of draconic or abyssal) Streetwise (in Sigil or City of Brass?) Diplomacy (with the court wizard) History (magical history, of course) Dungeoneering (magical monster knowledge checks) I would also probably allow it to be used for gathering information in the right context. Trying to find the crafter of a certain item you have found? Or perhaps seeking the most likely source of the ritual that was used to trap a soul/demon/devil/etc.
#3 pbn Jul 31, 2009 22:21:29	Out of Curiousity - are you planning sage of ages? (Academy Master PP/Sage of Ages ED) is nice one for arcana-centric not entirely off track, as the Sage of Ages gives you True Name if the DM is giving you a bonus, I could see Arcana used as a substitue for any knowledge skill. Supernal (from the imp ) is a language ripe with words of power, knowing the names of places and creatures, I'd give you a bonus (based on a master level Arcana check) to any checks for knowledge, if the person/place/thing is named.
#4 CaptnMorgrim Aug 01, 2009 3:58:30	As a DM I 'm of the conviction that arcana could be used to search for magical traps, as a trained character could perceive the flow of magical energies between the trigger and the trap, e.g. the Magic Crossbow turret. In the same vein, I 'd allow players to scramble a magical trap's targetting with arcana (e.g. -2 to attack rolls for the trap after a successful arcana check) or to support other PCs' attempts to dissemble the trap with thievery (aid another based on arcana). If a trap is based on divine powers or rituals I 'd allow a similar bonus for using Religion. On the other hand, I would only allow Arcana to replace another skill under very limited circumstances and at a DC 1 level or difficulty higher than usual. The problem I perceive here is that Arcana could make other skills obsolete. As a general rule, I wouldn't use it to replace physical skills or charisma-based skills. PS: @ OP If your eladrin has a Cha of 13 and a free MC slot, you could go Sorcerer and get sorcerous visions at paragon tier which allows you to substitute arcana for Insight and Perception checks. Quite an useful MC choice, but combined with a wizard's high int you can rival an Elf Archer-Ranger/Cleric-Ranger's perception bonus
#5 sigil_beguiler Aug 01, 2009 4:03:31	I use Arcana a lot of the time in combination with Skill Challenges, that go hand-in-hand beside other skills, some examples: Manning a ship: Arcana can be used to calm the waves, bring forth winds, etc. Forging a weapon: Arcana is used to infuse it with magical properties. Investigating a scene: Arcana can be used to sniff out footsteps of someone with arcane energy, and so forth. Basically Arcana can be used as a story skill. Same goes with lots of skills if it fits what they are. So Divine can have similar attributes, Nature for Primal and so forth.
#6 johnnii Aug 01, 2009 13:13:34	Disabling magical traps instead of using Thievery, such as Glyphs of X
#7 andurion Aug 01, 2009 13:50:10	I'm generally quite open to letting players roll Arcana to do stunts with their spells. Things like change the damage type, extend the ranged, do a little more damage, etc.
#8 Damon_Tor Aug 02, 2009 0:25:57	I use Arcana a lot of the time in combination with Skill Challenges, that go hand-in-hand beside other skills, some examples: Manning a ship: Arcana can be used to calm the waves, bring forth winds, etc. Forging a weapon: Arcana is used to infuse it with magical properties. Investigating a scene: Arcana can be used to sniff out footsteps of someone with arcane energy, and so forth. You've listed three rituals, so if you just require an arcana roll for this kind of thing you're kind of making rituals pointless, especially since most of them require arcana (or another knowlege skill) checks for determine effectiveness. Arcana is already the most useful of the three knowledge skills IMO. No need to search for how it's useful.
#9 Seeker95 Aug 02, 2009 6:56:04	I'm generally quite open to letting players roll Arcana to do stunts with their spells. Things like change the damage type, extend the ranged, do a little more damage, etc. Those aren't stunts. Those are cheese! I would consider stunts being things like bouncing a magic missile off the wall.
#10 CaptnMorgrim Aug 02, 2009 9:59:47	You've listed three rituals, so if you just require an arcana roll for this kind of thing you're kind of making rituals pointless, especially since most of them require arcana (or another knowlege skill) checks for determine effectiveness. Still, that would be allright if the use of arcana only mimicks the ritual in a very minor way - want a strong gale to propel your ship? Ritual? Need a fresh breeze to get out of the harbor? Arcana, Nature & Perception checks please!
#11 Damon_Tor Aug 03, 2009 0:12:04	Still, that would be allright if the use of arcana only mimicks the ritual in a very minor way - want a strong gale to propel your ship? Ritual? Need a fresh breeze to get out of the harbor? Arcana, Nature & Perception checks please! I'm not seeing the line.
#12 Enlightened1 Aug 03, 2009 1:35:23	Depending on how tightly the DM allows 'fluff,' I might suggest using it to get a +2 mod on other skills, rather than replacing them altogether. -- get a bonus to Intimidate by adding a thunderous timber to your voice -- a bonus to Thievery by using magic to focus your eyesight, kind of alow-level microsopic vision, where you can see tiny parts more easily -- a bonus to an Athletics jump check , by conjuring a little explosion under your feet as you jump -- a bonus to various social skills, using small illusions to make things appear prettier, more impressive, or just with a little magical sparkle to them I would imagine that with such high and universal knowledge, one could also get a +2 aid bonus by cross-referencing one's own information, to just about any knowledge check. You could also suggest that such a high Arcana skill allows fine manipulation with Mage Hand, so that you can write things down just using a floating pen and paper, refill your beer mug remotely, etc. If you don't push it, trying to pick locks with it, it should be fluff, rather than munchkining. Do things like light (or snuff out) all the candles in the room at once. Or gutter them dramatically, like always happens in the movies (bonus to persuasion). Make a little origami critter (or make it out of bits like cigar butts and cherry pits) and have it walk back and forth across the table while having a discussion with an NPC. Have it do little tricks, such as play dead, jump into someone's drink, etc. Gandalf's smoke rings. Make amusing shadow figures with your hands. Then take away your hands, and the shadow figures stay there for a minute, and move by themselves.
#13 alphasquirell Aug 03, 2009 2:01:23	I'm not seeing the line. The light breeze is something conjured by simple Arcana, but more power requires more channeled power (and thus, a ritual). Like, Arcana gets you out of the harbor, and the ritual provides the magical energy to convey the ship across the sea. (Nature/Perception, in this case, are using knowledge of the wild and inherent sense to detect sea breezes, as opposed to conjuring them) It would be like, using Arcana to discern that the Dwarf doesn't really like you, instead of using Comprehend Languages to learn he's saying obscene things about your mother with a pleasant voice. Or an Arcane force-field that dissipates the instant touched instead of an Arcane Lock (maybe you just need a flash-defense to hold the door for a round while the party prepares for the attackers). Or to dampen sound long enough for the Fighter to club the guy in the alley (effectively acting as a handgun silencer) instead of casting Silence. You could even use Religion, channeling Divine energy to ease pain, but not heal hitpoints (maybe the villager attacked by bandits isn't going to survive, but you can do the merciful thing and ease his pain). Or channeling Divine energy to make the captured lich feel uncomfortable, without actually Turning Undead. Or project an aura that lets people know a Divine-channeling presence is present, but not much else. Or for things not covered by rituals. Such as using Arcana to change the temperature of a room, or make a cooking fire flare up so it's more useful (bright/hot, whatever). Or maybe you want to gain a feel of an area, to determine if a fight took place. I realize I definitely got redundant at some point during all that. Just throwing out every idea that came to me, hoping some of it will be useful to someone. It's kinda like "extreme Prestidigitation", although I'd let the cantrip directly alter the world a bit more. (an Arcana check could make a room warm, but isn't concentrated enough to actually heat a bowl of soup, for example) EDIT: Or like, everything Enlightened1 mentioned.