Damage Reduction vs Special Attacks. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Damage Reduction vs Special Attacks.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Kurama_Youko
May 23, 2008 11:24:26 Hey, I'm looking for a ruling that I sure I saw some where but don't know where.
3.5 related

If a creature has a high amount of Damage Reduction say Damage Reduction 15/Cold Iron and a attack that comes from a creature not using a cold iron weapon does less than 15 doesn't it stop any additional damage dice from affecting the creature. Can you please point me in the direction of the ruling or provide a link. Things like maneuvers from Tomb and Battle and Special Attacks like Sneak Attack from the Rogue, I think fall under this ruling.
#2
Zherog
May 23, 2008 11:47:55 You're partially right. Let's continue with your example. Our rogue is fighting something with DR 15/Cold Iron. He has poison on his blade, and he gets 5d6 sneak attack damage in the right situation.

In the first round, our rogue tumbles behind the creature. The creature isn't denied Dex and isn't flat-footed, so our rogue doesn't get sneak attack. He attacks anyway, and does 14 points of damage. Because the whole thing is negated by damage reduction, the poison has no effect.

In the second round, the fighter moved into a flanking position. Our rogue attacks again, this time getting to add his sneak attack to his damage total. This is all damage - not a special attack - so our rogue gets a total of 32 points of damage combined. We knock 15 points off that, so he inflicts a total of 17 damage. Because the creature was damaged this time, the rogue also has a chance of poisoning the target. The creature makes a Fort save for that, and that resolves normally.

Basically, sneak attack isn't treated separately; it's all damage, and gets added to the amount before reducing for damage reduction.
#3
Kurama_Youko
May 23, 2008 13:18:22 Okay but what about for the Tomb and Battle Maneuvers and stuff, which is what I was most concerned about.
#4
Zherog
May 23, 2008 13:32:28 I don't have Tome of Battle, so I don't know specifically. Could you post an example quote of one of the abilities you're questioning?

As a general rule of thumb, things like sneak attack (skirmish, sudden strike, etc) add to the existing damage of the attack and therefore get added to the damage total before applying DR. This general rule of thumb is going to hold true for anything that applies extra damage (though there's exceptions).

Also as a general rule of thumb, things that add extra effects (poison, stunning fist, etc) are not added before DR, and if DR negates all the damage the extra effect is also negated.
#5
mindolin
May 23, 2008 13:33:00 It's all treated like Sneak Attack, as it's a bonus to damage. Some of the manuevers get around this, such as by dealing fire or cold damage, which is not lowered by Damage Reduction, since energy damage isn't lowered by DR. Another number of manuevers, typically either Stone Dragon or Devoted Spirit, get around it by specifically stating that the attack ignores Damage Reduction.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kurama_Youko May 23, 2008 11:24:26	Hey, I'm looking for a ruling that I sure I saw some where but don't know where. 3.5 related If a creature has a high amount of Damage Reduction say Damage Reduction 15/Cold Iron and a attack that comes from a creature not using a cold iron weapon does less than 15 doesn't it stop any additional damage dice from affecting the creature. Can you please point me in the direction of the ruling or provide a link. Things like maneuvers from Tomb and Battle and Special Attacks like Sneak Attack from the Rogue, I think fall under this ruling.
#2 Zherog May 23, 2008 11:47:55	You're partially right. Let's continue with your example. Our rogue is fighting something with DR 15/Cold Iron. He has poison on his blade, and he gets 5d6 sneak attack damage in the right situation. In the first round, our rogue tumbles behind the creature. The creature isn't denied Dex and isn't flat-footed, so our rogue doesn't get sneak attack. He attacks anyway, and does 14 points of damage. Because the whole thing is negated by damage reduction, the poison has no effect. In the second round, the fighter moved into a flanking position. Our rogue attacks again, this time getting to add his sneak attack to his damage total. This is all damage - not a special attack - so our rogue gets a total of 32 points of damage combined. We knock 15 points off that, so he inflicts a total of 17 damage. Because the creature was damaged this time, the rogue also has a chance of poisoning the target. The creature makes a Fort save for that, and that resolves normally. Basically, sneak attack isn't treated separately; it's all damage, and gets added to the amount before reducing for damage reduction.
#3 Kurama_Youko May 23, 2008 13:18:22	Okay but what about for the Tomb and Battle Maneuvers and stuff, which is what I was most concerned about.
#4 Zherog May 23, 2008 13:32:28	I don't have Tome of Battle, so I don't know specifically. Could you post an example quote of one of the abilities you're questioning? As a general rule of thumb, things like sneak attack (skirmish, sudden strike, etc) add to the existing damage of the attack and therefore get added to the damage total before applying DR. This general rule of thumb is going to hold true for anything that applies extra damage (though there's exceptions). Also as a general rule of thumb, things that add extra effects (poison, stunning fist, etc) are not added before DR, and if DR negates all the damage the extra effect is also negated.
#5 mindolin May 23, 2008 13:33:00	It's all treated like Sneak Attack, as it's a bonus to damage. Some of the manuevers get around this, such as by dealing fire or cold damage, which is not lowered by Damage Reduction, since energy damage isn't lowered by DR. Another number of manuevers, typically either Stone Dragon or Devoted Spirit, get around it by specifically stating that the attack ignores Damage Reduction.