Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 luke409 Feb 19, 2010 12:53:47	So I run a cmapaign where one of my characters is playing as an insane Thraikreen dragon shaman. Ive tried to balance things out by making harder monster and giving my other players better equipment but now i just give everyone a fair amount and yet he's going over the edge. Are there any specific monsters, scenarios, or traps or anything that could help me put this giant annoying ant in his place? P.S. he has already Coup De Grace one of my other players while we took a rest much to my dismay, not that this doesn't happen with evil pc's, but I felt bad that this other player had a ring of protection, 5 large diamonds he found in a cave, and some pretty impressive elemental armor.
#2 salla Feb 19, 2010 12:56:53	How is he overshadowing the rest of the party?  He's got 2 racial HD and a +2 ECL, putting his class four levels behind everybody else.  Dragon Shaman is far from a powerhouse class on top of that. As far as whacking another party member, why did the rest of the group not immediately jump on him and either kick the Thri-Kreen out of the party if not outright kill him for his betrayal?
#3 luke409 Feb 19, 2010 13:06:51	He steals treasure from everyone, alot of the fun items have been given to him because he finds my treasure rooms first with his "Instant Direction" thing. He has the ability to sense the exact escape route of a dungeon. Plus everyone else is either neutral or chatoci good, their roleplaying loves seeing crazy things happen. Damn bug also is the only one who goes to markets and was able to kill a shopkeeper to take a pipe of grief, special swords and extra gold. He's not a bad person in reality but he gets hardcore in his roleplaying as lawful evil. Plus he's already forced one member of the party on his side in secret. I expected someone to kill him but he was the only one awake while everyone else was asleep. D:
#4 salla Feb 19, 2010 13:16:11	Thri-Kreen aren't in the SRD, so I can't reference them, but I doubt that their racial 'find direction' ability lets them find escape routes and treasure rooms.  Read the ability more closely to make sure.  If the power is called 'Know Direction and Location', then this is how it works: You generally know where you are. This power is useful to characters who end up at unfamiliar destinations after teleporting, using a gate, or traveling to or from other planes of existence. The power reveals general information about your location as a feeling or presentiment. The information is usually no more detailed than a summary that locates you according to a prominent local or regional site. Using this power also tells you what direction you are facing. So, the power gets you no more details than 'you're about fifty miles south of Mt. Spitzer, and you're facing west'.  It doesn't let him navigate mazes or anything of the sort. As far as point 2 ... The rest of the party just needs to roleplay.  They're walking around with someone they know is a thief and a psychotic murderer.  They should *not* be tolerating this.  The rest of the party should either kick him out (meaning he makes a new character, hopefully one that fits in) or, more likely since he's a psychotic, just outright kill him because he's a villain. P.S. Never allow evil PCs unless they're all evil.  Stupid s**t like this ALWAYS happens.
#5 Ka_D-Argo Feb 19, 2010 16:25:42	He steals treasure from everyone, alot of the fun items have been given to him because he finds my treasure rooms first with his "Instant Direction" thing. He has the ability to sense the exact escape route of a dungeon. How does knowing the way out get him to treasure rooms first? Plus everyone else is either neutral or chatoci good, their roleplaying loves seeing crazy things happen. Seeing crazy things happen is completely different from trusting one of your party members.  Neutral and Chaotic characters should still care if one of their party members is randomly killing people, especially one of their own.  Damn bug also is the only one who goes to markets and was able to kill a shopkeeper to take a pipe of grief, special swords and extra gold. Do you dole out any consequences for this type of behavior?  Or is this a lawless community (which if it was, I doubt the shopkeeper would be unprotected)?  I know there is a lot of speculation and personal views on what alignments do what, but from all the years I've been gaming (16 now).  I've never seen Lawful Evil played that way. Lawful Evil was always explained to me as the greedy merchant or less than reputable lawyer.  The ones that commit their "crimes" within the scope of the law.  My guess is that this player is using the "Evil" part of this alignment as an excuse to act the way he does. Plus, it would not appear that his actions really follow that of what a Dragon Shaman should. From PH2: You adventure out of desire to test yourself and prove your worth; whatever the specific inducement, the urge to gain more power underlies every quest.  Drawn by your power, others follow your lead and you are happy to command them.  Being a great leader is just one of the many ways you can manifest your power. This could be a problem too, where he is equating items and wealth as power. He's not a bad person in reality but he gets hardcore in his roleplaying as lawful evil. Plus he's already forced one member of the party on his side in secret. This is something I could expect from a Lawful Evil character.   I expected someone to kill him but he was the only one awake while everyone else was asleep. D: Was it obvious that he was the one that killed the PC? or did he lie about it and they bought it?
#6 chaosturtle Feb 19, 2010 18:14:38	So I run a cmapaign where one of my characters is playing as an insane Thraikreen dragon shaman. Ive tried to balance things out by making harder monster and giving my other players better equipment but now i just give everyone a fair amount and yet he's going over the edge. Are there any specific monsters, scenarios, or traps or anything that could help me put this giant annoying ant in his place? P.S. he has already Coup De Grace one of my other players while we took a rest much to my dismay, not that this doesn't happen with evil pc's, but I felt bad that this other player had a ring of protection, 5 large diamonds he found in a cave, and some pretty impressive elemental armor. He's playing chaotic stupid, not Lawful Evil.  Evil...especially lawful evil doesn't translate into killing people you're questing with or even stealing from the party.  Common sense and intelligence doesn't equal into killing people you're questing with either for that matter.  The player is a classic example of a problem player and quite frankly seems to lack the maturity to play an evil alignment.  Tell him this isn't GTA Dragon and to stop being an arse.
#7 luke409 Feb 19, 2010 22:01:17	He's a real smart ass sometimes and I've argued the sense of direction with him and outside DND friends a couple of times, however out of a dungeon of my own design I shut down his sense of direction entriely and his sense aura by making a cave with a high magic disruption field. Basically I made it so if the bug is the compass, my dungeon is the bermuda triangle bending his pointing needle into 16 different shapes. This however also forced a strength check on weapons and focus on my wizard's spells but it ended up being hilarious. I've tried to explain giving consequences, nearly killing his pet griffin twice, making all the monsters in one dungeon attack him only, and he killed one of group for a few reasons. The guy was a samurai whose special Wakazashi was destroyed by a lava wurm whot basically melted the sword in it's mouth so the samurai knew he was nowhere near his master to repair or get a new sword so he figured he would have to perform Sepuku or whatever it's called and kill himself. Another reason was I actually had my group fighting 4 boneyards, but the one that grappled the bug boy lost interest and spat him back out. (my other group members had found an old cleric who was threatening to use mass rebuke) Basically the boneyards were 3 levels higher than the group and I messed with one so it had the ability to communicate telepathically (really hilarious spirits) bug boy was so pissed that he'd been tossed aside that he killed the samurai as he slept. I showed him mercy and couldve killed him instantly but i was too tired at the end of the session to argue. Now ive got a broken bug whose roleplaying is going nuts and I dunno how to deal with him.
#8 salla Feb 20, 2010 16:39:20	For the sake of this response, the thri-kreen's player's name is Steve, because I don't want to type (Thri-Kreen's Player) more than twice. "Steve ... your character is disrupting the game.  Either have him stop being an evil f**ktard, or swap him out for a new character who isn't an evil f**ktard."
#9 kuonji Feb 20, 2010 17:40:11	I've found erasers and paper shredders to be effective against stupid characters.
#10 Ka_D-Argo Feb 20, 2010 19:11:12	I've tried to explain giving consequences, nearly killing his pet griffin twice, making all the monsters in one dungeon attack him only, and he killed one of group for a few reasons. Consequences for killing a merchant randomly in town would be more like a bounty placed on his head, and constantly being harassed by people coming to collect (or mobs coming to collect).  This could be passed on to his traveling companions too.   The guy was a samurai whose special Wakazashi was destroyed by a lava wurm whot basically melted the sword in it's mouth so the samurai knew he was nowhere near his master to repair or get a new sword so he figured he would have to perform Sepuku or whatever it's called and kill himself. A Samurai is honorable, not stupid.  Their is no reason for him to consider killing himself due to loss of a weapon in battle.  If his weapon broke because he was trying to use it as a can opener, then, that might be a reason to kill yourself =P .  He should probably pick up whatever remains and keep it with him until it can be repaired.  Another reason was I actually had my group fighting 4 boneyards, but the one that grappled the bug boy lost interest and spat him back out. (my other group members had found an old cleric who was threatening to use mass rebuke) Basically the boneyards were 3 levels higher than the group and I messed with one so it had the ability to communicate telepathically (really hilarious spirits) bug boy was so pissed that he'd been tossed aside that he killed the samurai as he slept. So, did he kill the Samurai because he thought he was doing him a favor? or pure hateful revenge? (and not even revenge because the Samurai personally did anything to him).   I showed him mercy and couldve killed him instantly but i was too tired at the end of the session to argue. Now ive got a broken bug whose roleplaying is going nuts and I dunno how to deal with him. Divine Intervention. Or just a bunch of Giant Scorpions that take no interest in the rest of the party.
#11 dragonsblood Feb 20, 2010 21:33:41	You are the problem. Not the player or his character. You are enabling his behavior and overlooking the obvious cheating. Stop being an idiot.
#12 doublecross Feb 20, 2010 23:01:14	I agree with Salla.  Unfortunately, from your description, it sounds like the Bug is simply out to enjoy himself, regardless of how it impacts the other players.  That leaves you with exactly two choices.  1)  Tell smacktard to grow up, stop screwing around, and actually PLAY the game.  Explain that, in fact, this is a collaborative effort, and by pissing around, he's making it unfun for everybody.  Either fix the character, or kill it and start new. 2)  Kick him from the group.  This is the option I would likely go with.  I've dealt with players like this before, and to be blunt, it's not going to matter whether he rebuilds a new character or not;  he's still going to end up being the same jerk.  Tell him he's brought this to a point where it's just not fun for you or the others anymore.  If you don't feel you're up to kicking him directly, lie a little, and tell him you just can't DM anymore.  Dissolve the group, and reform it without him. To be honest, I'm surprised your other players haven't revolted by now.  If this kind of crap happened in my group, you can bet the character in question would be killed in an interesting and graphic way, and the player dismissed.  What are your players telling you? Finally, you have to remember that this game is as much about you having fun as your players.  If you're not having fun anymore, take a break.  Let one of them step up for a few sessions, or just knock off and do something else.  You can always pick the reins back up later, maybe with a few new ideas.  Good luck. -DC
#13 MrCustomer Feb 21, 2010 0:44:01	He's a real smart ass sometimes and I've argued the sense of direction with him and outside DND friends a couple of times, however out of a dungeon of my own design I shut down his sense of direction entriely and his sense aura by making a cave with a high magic disruption field. You are the DM, you arbitrate the rules, don't argue with a player on the rules, instead, listen to their opinions and then make a ruling. "My interpretation of Instant Direction is..." and that becomes law in your game, end of story. This is why the game has a DM, to arbitrate the rules, You are the final say. As for finding treasure rooms before anyone else, he should also find traps before anyone else, and not in the "oh look a trap way" but in a "click....BOOM!, OMG notify his next of kin" sort of way. I've tried to explain giving consequences, nearly killing his pet griffin twice, making all the monsters in one dungeon attack him only, and he killed one of group for a few reasons. Consequences should not be made to punish a player, nor should they be meta-gamed (ie making all monsters attack him) as this makes the problem player blame you and not his actions. It even becomes more impotant a form of disipline if he survives. Consequences should be always there, it is a part of the flow of nature, He creates the consequences, not the DM. When he murders someone inside town, as an example, the resulting consequences are caused directly by his own actions. What goes up must come down. When the villagers run to the local lord for protection and he sends a group of high level Knights out to bring justice upon this Bug (read monster) and kill him, This is something that the player has done to himself. You as DM simply reacted, if the player complains I would simply state "well what did you think would happen, this village is under the protection of Lord soandso and he has these high level knights at his disposal, you really shouldn't have murdered that person in cold blood. I can't have them just ignore your actions"   But to properly deal with this you need to do several things. -Sit down with the player and explain how your game is effected by having such an unbalanced group and how his actions are disruptive. Explain on how you are going to change the rules, particularly those concerning expected behaviour. -Ban evil aligned characters, period, end of story. This means the player has to write up a new character, give him the option of deciding how to retire his bug (one that doesn't involve killing the rest of the party) Because he is a: Evil, b: disruptive and c: unbalanced. -In addition limit the character choice to humanoid or reasonable creatures. Creatures of unusual size, giant or tiny, creatures that would panic and scare the populace in towns (such as a huge bug monster) Creatures that can fly etc. Anything that would be disruptive to have in the group. Myself I limit the players to only 1 level adjustment as well in most games (unless we are playing higher levels) simply because the balance issues that result can be a nuisance. -establish
#14 RPJesus Feb 21, 2010 4:18:29	-Ban evil aligned characters, period, end of story. This means the player has to write up a new character, give him the option of deciding how to retire his bug (one that doesn't involve killing the rest of the party) Because he is a: Evil, b: disruptive and c: unbalanced. This really wouldn't accomplish anything. If somebody is being an all around ****, making them write "Chaotic Neutral" in the alignment section isn't going to remedy the situation.
#15 salla Feb 21, 2010 7:22:29	-Ban evil aligned characters, period, end of story. This means the player has to write up a new character, give him the option of deciding how to retire his bug (one that doesn't involve killing the rest of the party) Because he is a: Evil, b: disruptive and c: unbalanced. This really wouldn't accomplish anything. If somebody is being an all around ****, making them write "Chaotic Neutral" in the alignment section isn't going to remedy the situation. It's worked for me on occassion.  I've had a few people simply walk away when I say 'no evil PCs'.  I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is one of them.
#16 Preston_R Feb 21, 2010 7:30:56	You are the problem. Not the player or his character. You are enabling his behavior and overlooking the obvious cheating. Stop being an idiot. Man, I wish I could tell this to parents some times... Essentially - this. You are the DM. It is your game, that you share with the other players. If you allow one person to be disruptive or cheat and you don't school them on it then you become part of the problem. You enable his behavior by allowing him to do it. Actions have consequences. He killed a merchant in town? Next town the party goes to has heard of them, and won't allow them access. Same with the next town. And the next. Or if they do then very burly guards shadow his ever move, or the assassins guild follows him, waiting for him to do something stupid. Merchants cause 3-400% more for all wares and goods, if the characters complain say its for "Insurance against that monster you keep such close company with."