We got this new guy and first time player who will steal anything that may be found the group. Am just wondering if there was some way I could stop his greed so much. No I can't depend on the other players for 1 of them is friend of his and the other is pissed off rule lawyer whos mad at me (long story).
Talk to the player and the DM, describe how it's disrupting the game and being unfair to you and the other players, and hope he'll actually listen and tone down his obnoxious tendencies.
Let me see if I have this straight.
You have a new player, who's character is stealing from the group, and you're wondering how to curb this behavior?
My suggestion is to do nothing, if it's an in-play issue. The characters will eventually catch him at it, and beat his ass for you. Or he steals from a noble or somesuch, and they call the Guard. As we all know, Commoners are congenitally incapable of telling the truth without the aid of torture.Amazing what losing a hand and a couple of fingers, plus a couple of days on the rack will do to a person.
If it's a Player issue, on our side of the paper, then you needeth summon the Guards yourself, and make sure he returns not to your home.
If the in-character crap causes problems outside the game, have a chat with him, and ask him nicely to cut the carp. If he refuses, then cut him.
I would think that the offended rules-lawyer would be the bigger concern. Best guess is that a rule he thought would make him Uber wound up getting shot down, with no additional discussion (read argument) until he forced his point in your gut and twisted it lots.
Edit: *waves to Salla*
No that wouldn't work since he got in an 1 hour agruement with another player over cloak that was designed to go to a caster class instead of a rogue (yeah he plays halfling too).
No that wouldn't work since he got in an 1 hour agruement with another player over cloak that was designed to go to a caster class instead of a rogue (yeah he plays halfling too).
I'm confused still? To which option does this refer?
The talk to the DM and the player. DM takes a every man for himself appoch to loot and the player will just go off and say he has that high of thievey skill.
Okay, then. Seems to me like you have a few issues that need dealt with. While the DM's policy is well within his rights, most groups tend to police themselves.
I hope he's making rolls for all these thievery tests...
If he tries to steal something out of your pockets, you should get a check against Passive Perception.
No that wouldn't work since he got in an 1 hour agruement with another player over cloak that was designed to go to a caster class instead of a rogue (yeah he plays halfling too).
I'm confused still? To which option does this refer?
The talk to the DM and the player. DM takes a every man for himself appoch to loot and the player will just go off and say he has that high of thievey skill.
Okaaaay....this is a tough one. I'm sure a lot of people on these boards would say "don't play with the group" because it sounds like a situation that compromises the fun, but I know how hard it can be to find people who play in your area. So I'm assuming that you're "stuck" playing with them if you want to play at all.
If the new guy is making the game not fun for the whole group, the best thing might be to kick him out. Or alternatively, kill his character in his sleep. If the DM is really that hardcore about "every man for himself" then it sounds like this might be the only choice you have. Obviously dealing with the problem out of game is best, but it sounds like both the DM and the players probably wouldn't be very cooperative. Perhaps forcing him to roll a new character would eliminate the problem.
For example, one time I was just starting a campaign and two of the PCs immediately got into a disagreement and killed each other. This happened minutes into the campaign. So we scrapped it and started anew, and with different characters the problem disappeared.
Option 1 - Stop playing with that guy
Option 2 - Stop playing with that group if they condone his behavior
Option 3 - Trap your stuff. Nothing says bad day like a Thief who just got poisoned because he took the wrong thing off you. Or in previous editions "I prepared Explosive runes today"
(Note Option 3 is really last resort if you refuse to leave and you cannot remove the player)
If the character is stealing from the other PCs, he *will* get caught. When he gets caught, the other PCs should get mad. Kill him, take your stuff back, don't res him, and let him make a new character if he doesn't ragequit.
In the mean time, make damn sure he's rolling Thievery, in the open, every single time he's trying to pickpocket something, and don't forget that your characters are *not* stupid - if the thief keeps showing up with new magical gear, if your stuff goes missing, if there was a belt pouch on the orc, the thief walked by, and now there's no belt pouch, you *do* get to say "I didn't see him do it, but I suspect him anyway."
Okay, then. Seems to me like you have a few issues that need dealt with. While the DM's policy is well within his rights, most groups tend to police themselves.
I hope he's making rolls for all these thievery tests...
If he tries to steal something out of your pockets, you should get a check against Passive Perception.
Although given that he built his character with the intent of being a ****, whereas everyone else is likely just there to have fun, it's within reason for a level 1 thief archetype to have around a +14 to thievery (+5 trained, +5 dex, +2 racial, +2 from item/background/feat/etc.) vs. a pasive perception of likely around 17 if you train in it (maybe 20 if you use wisdom as your attack stat).
This guy seems to b runing the game. I think if I was PC I would find some half-ass excuse to attack him. Meta-gaming or not I would do it. well give him a heads up first, then if he continues attack him at the slighest provocation
Although given that he built his character with the intent of being a ****, whereas everyone else is likely just there to have fun, it's within reason for a level 1 thief archetype to have around a +14 to thievery (+5 trained, +5 dex, +2 racial, +2 from item/background/feat/etc.) vs. a pasive perception of likely around 17 if you train in it (maybe 20 if you use wisdom as your attack stat).
Except that Thievery doesn't target passive perception. It targets 20+HalfLevel.
So, assuming you're L1 and he's got +14 to it, that means he fails on 7- and gets caught on 2-. Which is to say, 1/3 failure and 1/10 *getting caught in the act*.
And, of course, this assumes that your characters are COMPLETE MORONS and don't consider "Hey, sleazeball halfling around, all our money goes missing, sleazeball halfling always has money - Fighter? Would you mind sitting on sleazeball halfling for a minute while we rummage through his stuff? Oh, here's my money pouch, and 300 GP in treasure that he didn't share, and a magic item he lied to us about, and....."
Followed, of course, by taking his stuff, stripping him naked, and kicking him out of the adventuring party with the understanding that if any of the other PCs ever see said thief ever again, they'll kill him. Oh, and they're making sure everyone for a dozen towns around knows that he's scum.
If he is a new player he probably just hasn't gotten it in his head that DND is a team game. Explain it to him.
"Hey please stop stealing from everyone and generally being a ****. Think of it like this. Out of game you are stealing our imaginary items from us with your imagination. First, thats really sad. Second, you are stealing from us, people who thought you considered us friends. This behavior suggests otherwise. Thinking about this in game, we are pretty quickly going to grow suspicious, as to why you have 4 times the amount of cash as us. When we realize you have stolen from us what do you think this band of murdering tomb robbers will do to you? Your PC knows the answer, and if only for that reason alone, should probably stop robbing us."
Although given that he built his character with the intent of being a ****, whereas everyone else is likely just there to have fun, it's within reason for a level 1 thief archetype to have around a +14 to thievery (+5 trained, +5 dex, +2 racial, +2 from item/background/feat/etc.) vs. a pasive perception of likely around 17 if you train in it (maybe 20 if you use wisdom as your attack stat).
Except that Thievery doesn't target passive perception. It targets 20+HalfLevel.
So, assuming you're L1 and he's got +14 to it, that means he fails on 7- and gets caught on 2-. Which is to say, 1/3 failure and 1/10 *getting caught in the act*.
In my defense, the person I was responding to said passive perception, and I didn't bother to check otherwise.
And, of course, this assumes that your characters are COMPLETE MORONS
No, I'm just saying that in the actual act of thievery (working under the misinformation that it was vs. passive) it'd prolly be pretty hard to catch him. But yeah, eventually they'd get pretty supicious. Hell, if a select few of my items were missing, my guy would prolly go on a rampage regardless of what happened to them :3.
I would like to thank Whtetyger, whosuggested the trap idea.
I came to this forum because my party also happens to have a group klepto. I have been trapping everything but my boots for the last three sessions, and as it turns out low constitution+no perception training=fun for all.(barring the thief, of course).
I have been playing an Assassin mercenary type, and have been robbed by the Rogue several times. The first time I took the DM into the other room and quietly stated my justified trap laying he commented on the brilliance of such a plan, which of course proved to be true when the Rogue got hit by TWO of my traps! She spent the rest of the session avoiding sleep knowing there was a hired killer with a grudge against her.
The look on her face when I pulled her character aside and said "I know what you have been doing, I want all my belongings plus half your take.....or I will spend the next month getting compliments on my strange green boots."(Half-Orc)
Talk to him, explain how you feel, ask him to stop.
*snip*
Except that Thievery doesn't target passive perception. It targets 20+HalfLevel.
*snip*
My fault. That was my fault. 3.x gave the victim a check vs. Spot for detecting pickpocketing, and I wrongly assumed it would be the same in 4e.
My bad.
Where a Perception check might be called for is upon finding the treasure in the first place, and the Rogue in question makes a Thievery check to pocket some of the lewts with the others looking on.
Honestly, even from a pure RP perspective, even an average-intelligence naive Paladin who believes in the inherent goodness of all creatures will eventually grow suspicious if one PC always demands to search for loot on his own, and tries to convince the party to ever "stay there, I'll be right back," or if any of his items go missing.
Not to mention that without a magical container, the thief is going to have some more bulges in his pack than one would expect, and long bouts of time away from the party to fence goods, which you could easily try to follow him or at higher levels Scry on.
EDIT: If the group is really a "every man for himself" playstyle, and you still want to hang out, then I'd suggest putting in your backstory something like a bad experience with thieves (like Batman) or a very possessive nature when it comes to your treasure (doesn't even have to be greed; could be an item or something you're saving up for or an orphanage you want to donate to). Or you're big on laws. Or you're just a violent idiot and your mother told you to beat people up if they took your things, no questions asked.
Then you can simply point to your backstory for why you react as you do when you inevitably catch him.
Mechanically speaking most classes have either Intelligence or Wisdom of at least above-average levels. Remember, 10 is about average for humans, and a 14+ makes you pretty sagacious in comparison. Int 18 is certainly capable of noticing how Event A + Event B + No treasure lately despite expectations immediately after taking on a new halfling rogue adds up.
EDIT: If the group is really a "every man for himself" playstyle, and you still want to hang out, then I'd suggest putting in your backstory something like a bad experience with thieves (like Batman) or a very possessive nature when it comes to your treasure (doesn't even have to be greed; could be an item or something you're saving up for or an orphanage you want to donate to). Or you're big on laws. Or you're just a violent idiot and your mother told you to beat people up if they took your things, no questions asked.Then you can simply point to your backstory for why you react as you do when you inevitably catch him.
It seems to me that a paladnis the tool of his or her god/religeon. They devote everything to be a worthy tool, and gain their boons in the form of powers to accomplish this end. It's not a stretch to assume a paladin seeing everything they get - good fortune and material possessions - are similarly boons. And therefore, anyone defiling those possessions are directy acting agnst the paladin's. If you need justificaion 
I am not a fan of out-of-game solutions.
1. Trap your things. Either colored paint or magical domination effects are very effective.
2. Acquire something valueable, then put contact poison on it. Keep an antidote.
3. Make it impossible or very difficult to access your things without making you aware. For example, store your money pouch on an inside pocket of your shirt or pants. If he's taking things while you sleep, then sleep in a tree or a magical location he has no access to.
4. Use a divination spell to find the thing that went missing.
5. Enlist someone or something to watch your stuff for you. A distant wizard, a bodyguard, a follower, an animal companion, a familiar, or an intelligent item all work.
6. Hire a bounty hunter to identify and possibly kill whoever is taking the party's stuff. Do this publicly if you think the person will respond to the threat.
7. Find some way of attaching time bombs to your things that must be disabled every so often. Perhaps a delayed spell would work. If a thief steals your things, the time bomb will eventually go off.
I DM for a group that includes one very self-motivated character (not player, but character), a rogue. He would happily help himself to all things first, but one of my other players is playing a very atypical fighter (he's a mercenary who's VERY good at surviving... so no running in first for him. He uses ranged basic attacks until he spots a weakness, then charges in to take advantage of it.) Having spent years looking out for himself and fighting with many different companies, he keeps a very close eye on anyone he doesn't trust... and so the rogue hasn't had opportunity to abuse the party's trust, and is starting to learn that he reaps greater rewards by not screwing the party over.
I maintain that so long as the PLAYER isn't a tool, there's no reason the character should be.
Tell the player to get over himself and play a character who works with the party. If he is unwilling to do this, kick him out of the game. If this means his friend goes too, no loss.
Just rob the thief.
Of his life.
I am not a fan of out-of-game solutions.
It's an out of game problem because it's ruining the fun.
Echo Khan!
Just rob the thief.
Of his life.
On reflection, I second this.
What pisses off a rogue is not being caught, but having another rogue do him.
Just because a rogue is good at stealing, that does not mean he is safe vs other rogues stealing from him.
He needs to sleep.
He needs to carry his loot in some container (swallowing gems and coins does unnecessary internal organ damage + painful bowel damage as well).
Some items are cursed and binds on pickup.
So anyway, killing this useless wizard not only fixed our problem, it gave us additional back-story, because we said he couldn't be revived since he exploded in a burst of every-single-enemy-in-the-room killing light. In the end, the wizard was finally useful. Try to do something similarly ironic with your rogue "friend."
As an aside, I play a rogue, but I hardly ever steal stuff. Most of the time I'm DPRing everyone, or disarming the traps, so everyone loves me. Try suggesting that this guy puts his thievery talents to use doing something that will help the group, then maybe you'll be willing to spare his life.
I agree with just about everyone on here who says to kill the rogue.
That is the first reaction of most people....kill off the undesirable.
Unless this klepto behavior is a roleplaying element of the character, killing the rogue will not change the player's mind...you kill his character off, he will just create a new one that does something else.
If the player is at fault and not the character, then he needs to learn that party unity is based on more than just being there. Killing the chartacter does not guarantee anything but a new character with the same attitude.
I agree with just about everyone on here who says to kill the rogue.
That is the first reaction of most people....kill off the undesirable.
Unless this klepto behavior is a roleplaying element of the character, killing the rogue will not change the player's mind...you kill his character off, he will just create a new one that does something else.
If the player is at fault and not the character, then he needs to learn that party unity is based on more than just being there. Killing the chartacter does not guarantee anything but a new character with the same attitude.
You are correct. However, forcing the player to make a new character is perhaps the most powerful message you can send to that player short of kicking them out of the group, especially if you forbid them to make another of the same class. If the group gets up and says "We've had it with this rogue. Let's kick his ass," then you would assume that the rest of the characters would not allow another rogue into their party. Also, they'd be more vigilant against further shenanigans.
However, I would also like to emphasise my other suggestion of convincing the player to put his "skills" to better use. That way, nobody has to have their feelings hurt, and you can enjoy some of the awesome abilities in the rogue's arsenal.
*Edit* Also, in regards to having outside help come in, you could insert the head of the local thieves' guild, and have him persuade this rogue to stop stealing from his friends. "You're giving us thieves a bad... er... worse reputation!"
I agree with just about everyone on here who says to kill the rogue.
That is the first reaction of most people....kill off the undesirable.
Unless this klepto behavior is a roleplaying element of the character, killing the rogue will not change the player's mind...you kill his character off, he will just create a new one that does something else.
If the player is at fault and not the character, then he needs to learn that party unity is based on more than just being there. Killing the chartacter does not guarantee anything but a new character with the same attitude.
It's always the fault of the player. "I'm just roleplaying my character" is never an excuse because the player purposely chose to play such a donkeycavity.
This is an out of game, player-motivation issue. Deal with it out of game.
He's got the (very common) delusion that because he's got the thievery skill, he's got the right to steal from the party. He does it because he can do it. Ergo, might makes right, at least for that guy.
4E isn't balanced at all around player versus player combat, so use that to your advantage. Players can dish out a lot more damage than they can take, especially without outside help. Typically, whoever wins initiative, wins. Once your character has in-game proof of the theft, just wait til the end of a long day adventuring, before an extended rest. The thief likely won't have any healing surges left if he's a Rogue, and you should be able to blow a (saved-up) daily attack power on him and kill him outright.
And he'll have no right to complain. After all, he's the one that initiated a might-makes-right scenario. Odds are his next character, if he comes back to play at all, won't be a thief.
There is nothing like a bag of poisoned gold coins for the win. Theif steals it and invariable counts it. Each coin he counts is one dose, mix and match a variety of contact poisons and your results will be fantastic.
Of course the real fun part is once he is heavily poinsoned and in desperate need of help, you generously offer him the anti-dote at a hefty cost. It is expensive after all you can explain. Naturally enough you don't have an antidote, but it's all fun and chuckles to watch the theif hand over all that coin and then chug an entire bottle of poison.
"oops! Wrong Bottle"
"It's like this, we really don't like theives, as a hafling you should appretiate our need to down-size in order to make up for your shortcomings in this area"
But what you really have to ask as a player is:
Is he really a thief, or has he just been suckering himself into carrying everything for the party until you get back to town and gut him?
Bag of Devouring.
Helm of Opposite Alignment.
Sword of Berzerking
mix n match for hilarious results.
So the main route is kill him but how do I do it without looking like a jerk in both meta and game realms.
Simple. Make it his own fault. If you coat your coins in poison, for example, he has a (very easy) way of not dying: don't steal the coins.
If you set a trap in your bags/chest/trunk, he'll never encounter it if he simply doesn't touch your belongings.
So the main route is kill him but how do I do it without looking like a jerk in both meta and game realms.
In game, no problem. Buy a bunch of cursed/holy/lawful/axiomatic arrows. Whichever he is and you aren't. Explain how you bought these crazy new expensive arrows that are super expensive and cool. As soon as the thief picks them up he dies no save. For the cost of a +2 magic item. The way the aligned property works is "As soon as someone picks this weapon up and they are of the wrong alignment they gain a negative level until they put it down". Ask your DM what happens if someone picks up one arrow that you have laying around just to make sure your DM hasn't house ruled this. The rules say they get a negative level immediately. Not a terrible bother, they just put it down and are instantly cured. Who cares. The kicker comes in, when the thief grabs your quiver of them. Thanks to the way pricing magical ammunition works, you buy them in sets of 20 for the cost of 1, on the condition that they break when fired. You don't care about this though, cause you aren't firing them. Holding 20 of these grants the person -20 levels. Any creature that gains more negative levels than it has hit die/class levels immediately is killed, no save, nothing.
If you can't trick the rogue into stealing them, simply do something like "Hey hold my stuff I am going to try to swim/whatever and need to be free to move about." As you jump in the water, "wait are you ___ aligned? oh crap, you just died then"
If you make the arrows your exact alignment, giving it a law/chaos and good/evil property, you can increase the odds you don't share an alignment, but it costs a little more.
To not look like a petty jerk out of game while you do this is impossible.
, no problem. Buy a bunch of cursed/holy/lawful/axiomatic arrows. Whichever he is and you aren't. Explain how you bought these crazy new expensive arrows that are super expensive and cool. As soon as the thief picks them up he dies no save. For the cost of a +2 magic item. The way the aligned property works is "As soon as someone picks this weapon up and they are of the wrong alignment they gain a negative level until they put it down". Ask your DM what happens if someone picks up one arrow that you have laying around just to make sure your DM hasn't house ruled this. The rules say they get a negative level immediately.
Well, a misapplication of the rules, since purchasing magical ammo (20 arrows) costs the same as a single magical weapon, holding a quiver of magic arrows is no different then holding a magical bow, you are purchasing a "quiver of arrows" and it is treated as a single object as far as magical effects are concerned.
Well, a misapplication of the rules, since purchasing magical ammo (20 arrows) costs the same as a single magical weapon, holding a quiver of magic arrows is no different then holding a magical bow, you are purchasing a "quiver of arrows" and it is treated as a single object as far as magical effects are concerned.
That is obviously how the rules were intended to be used. That said, it isn't how they are written. Additionally, the question to the DM "Hey what if someone steals one of my good aligned arrows? Do they get the negative level? What if they grab 'a hand full, you know whatever I can grab cause I am stealing these and don't have time to count exactly 20?'" will let you know if the DM has made an very reasonable houserule "1 negative level per 20 arrows".
That is obviously how the rules were intended to be used. That said, it isn't how they are written. Additionally, the question to the DM "Hey what if someone steals one of my good aligned arrows? Do they get the negative level? What if they grab 'a hand full, you know whatever I can grab cause I am stealing these and don't have time to count exactly 20?'" will let you know if the DM has made an very reasonable houserule "1 negative level per 20 arrows".
That sounds fine and good, but as the player who is the victim of this grossly unbalanced and unfair ruling, I know I would be somewhat POed at such a rulling. Really what you are advocating is a very cheap insta-kill with no save, that is so horribly unbalanced that there is Zero way for a DM to enforce such a ruling on a PC without being a jerk.
Not look like a jerk, be a jerk. There is no wa for a DM to kill a PC like this without intentionally wanting that PC to die regardless of what they did. It would be glaringly obvious. This is a horrid abuse of the rules.
Seriously you are advocating that for a pitance, 8000gp a PC can buy an item that grants 50 negative levels without any saves, effectively killing any creature below level 50. And how could a PC who this happen to not think the DM was being a complete by ruling this way?
That sounds fine and good, but as the player who is the victim of this grossly unbalanced and unfair ruling, I know I would be somewhat POed at such a rulling. Really what you are advocating is a very cheap insta-kill with no save, that is so horribly unbalanced that there is Zero way for a DM to enforce such a ruling on a PC without being a jerk.
Not look like a jerk, be a jerk. There is no wa for a DM to kill a PC like this without intentionally wanting that PC to die regardless of what they did. It would be glaringly obvious. This is a horrid abuse of the rules.Seriously you are advocating that for a pitance, 8000gp a PC can buy an item that grants 50 negative levels without any saves, effectively killing any creature below level 50. And how could a PC who this happen to not think the DM was being a complete by ruling this way?
Who said I ever said I argued that this was the best course of action? I simply pointed out that in game, your PC is in no way a jerk. He innocently bought a fairly effective item. I later pointed out that ... actually I'll quote it for you.
To not look like a petty jerk out of game while you do this is impossible.
Bold and underline are left in tact from the original post.
Also to nit pick, it is 40 negative levels. There are only two alignment sides, and buying arrows can only be done in sets of 20. 20*2= 40
Side note, I just noticed this post
Odds are his next character, if he comes back to play at all, won't be a thief.
I have to say, I think the odds are very good his next PC will have some sort of unspoken and random hatred of your PC. He will go to great lengths to make your PC miserable, including stealing, not healing if playing a leader, letting marks slip past if a defender, and probably framing you for murder at some point. Really you ought to consider an out of game solution.
2. Hide most of your money somewhere secure so it looks like you blew a lot of money on something. 3. Atatch a small tag to the scroll that says "condenced tome of whatever +5".
4. Have a wizard incribe the words "I prepared explosive runes today" onto the top of the scroll.
5. Roll up a few necklaces of fireball into the scroll so they will be caught in the blast.
6. Invest in a few items of fire res. for the other party members just in case.
7. Enjoy the fireworks when he steals your stuff.
8. Profit!
Also, have the characters do a extensive interveiw and background check of the new char that the player makes. Unless he has a great bluff skill, the chars will find out his vengeful plans and likely kill him on the spot (if the new PC really does want to kill the other PCs), as he would otherwise become a dangerous foe later on.
Carry no cash and make the rogue pay for everything on the trip and offer to pay him back when you get to town. If he complains just nod sadly and explain that it's hard for you to carry cash as you're an easy mark for cut-purses and since he's an experienced rogue he can safely guard the cash.
Tell him it's HIS job in the party to safeguard ALL treasure and ANY of it that is missing for any reason comes out of his cut at the end. *Shrug* He'll keep a sharp eye out for pickpockets then.
Depending on the world/campaign any of these can be an option. If you respond in character keep it in character. If you want to fix the issue otherwise, talk to the player or leave the game.
I'd rather give him guardianship over the treasure and the accountability that goes with it and see if that works. Sometimes giving someone a leadership role and very clear responsibilities can clear things up. Remember, a true leader can skim the scum, fleece the flounce, and utilize the useless. Even a halfling rogue with a heart of maggots can be useful, even if it's just to violate the 'do not feed the owlbears' sign. Hey, breaking a law is how he'd want to go right?
First, make sure your character catches the thief in the act stealing from you, give him the evil eye, and then wait until he's asleep.
Now you have the choice of:
* Branding his forehead or cheek while he sleeps with the word for thief.
* Casting an OOTS style Mark of Justice on him to punish any time he steals from the party.
* Cutting off a hand and branding him a thief.
* Killing him in his sleep and setting the body on fire.
Never tolerate thievery from other party members against the party.
Yes, i Often play a Paladin ;)
Alternatively, you could always punch the player in the face. Punch the DM once or twice too for letting crap like this happen.
Bold and underline are left in tact from the original post.
Also to nit pick, it is 40 negative levels. There are only two alignment sides, and buying arrows can only be done in sets of 20. 20*2= 40
DM's guide, the cost for magical ammo is for 50 units. Buying only 20 arrows would therefore only cost 3200 gp, 160 gp each, for the enhancement (only). Since the cost of the enhancement is not related to the cost of the weapon (beyond the MW requirement) and is added on it would be foolish to create only 20 arrows and not buy 50 as enhancing 20 arrows would cost the same as enhancing 50, not to nit pick. (ok by 3 sets of 20 and toss 10 away and enhance them)
Thus for 8000gp (plus cost of 50 master worked arrows) you could make an item that would effectively give a negative 100 levels when picked up. I can't see how a DM or Player could consider that rationally within the confines of the rules to have the same enhancement (it is only cast once) effect the PC up to 50 times.
I mean I do like the idea of adding the negative level enhancement to the arrows that he will steal, I myself advocated coating gold coins in poison, but this isn't a fair interpretation of the rules as intended.
I just gave him what he was trying to get. Didn't even give him even give him a chance to roll, just said he succeeded with an exaberated comment of something like "Whatever let's just move on, this is stupid and no fun." Same thing goes for when he said he was trying to steal party loot, didn't even give him a chance to roll and just reduced my share with a sigh.
It didn't take very much of this for him to get the point. Before long the rogue 'discovered' extra treasure and gave me back my share, and quietly slipped what he stole from me earlier back into my bag. Hasn't bothered me since.
The talk to the DM and the player. DM takes a every man for himself appoch to loot and the player will just go off and say he has that high of thievey skill.
If you catch the character stealing, kill it. Or better yet, cut off its hands and then kick it out of the party.
I mean I do like the idea of adding the negative level enhancement to the arrows that he will steal, I myself advocated coating gold coins in poison, but this isn't a fair interpretation of the rules as intended.
I totally agree. But I think if you are going for the "I am a petty jerk" thing out of game, go all the way.
Solving this in game, at best you will get a response of "Oh wow, that was a little bit of a petty jerk thing to do, I am probably not going to enjoy gaming with you anymore as much, and almost defiantly going to do something slightly more petty and jerkish back" and at worst you get "WOW what a petty jerk I am not gaming with you anymore."
I say go all the way.
AKA, call the DM out on it and ask them to stop.
Best suggestion for you ElricOfGrans is to say "Hey DM, thats sort of **** how everytime something cool is about to happen in the game, the DMPC ruins it. I wish there were a way for it to stop, because it almost makes me want to not play."
AKA, call the DM out on it and ask them to stop.
This is really the best option here. If it was a one or two time deal, I'd say to grin and bear it, but if its happening over and over again its time to put an end to it. If the DM doesn't relent, have the party agree to let him join you on your next adventure, then sidetrack to a closed space, block the exits, and kill the DMPC.
As for this whole in-party thievery business, I say that a blended in and out of game option is best. First, give both the DM and player a heads up that this is a problem. This gives the player a chance to amend his ways, and shows the DM that you tried to solve it without violence. If the rogue doesn't stop, I suggest waiting for him to sleep, taking your stuff back and securing all of it. If time permits, rub contact poison on the grip(s) of his weapon(s). Ideally something that'll take out his lowest stat.