So I was planning on taking Knowledge Devotion at 12th level because I needed something to increase my ability to hit and damage, and I'm a ranger so I felt it would fit.
However, the DM isn't allowing me take the feat saying "You aren't eligible for this feat. Corellon Larethian's domains are chaos, good, protection, and war as per Races of the Wild. Knowledge isn't one of his domains."
I didn't know that that's how it worked. That your deity HAD to have that domain listed. It just says Knowledge 5 Ranks as the basic requirements. My friend is arguing with me saying "Page 52 of Complete Champion says 'A domain feat usually corresponds to one of the domains a particular deity grants access to'. But it's not enough to sway.
Anything else I could say to make the argument go my way?
Second, based on your description, if it only says "Knowledge 5 Ranks", I don't see why you couldn't take it. (although I would understand roleplay reasons for a DM restricting it, if you had a deity that had a description like "loathes knowledge" or "encourages the frequent inflammation of printed material", which you don't)
Third, these are the 4th edition forums. While you might get some help, you might be better off asking where more people still play that edition. Check here, near the bottom under "D&D Previous Edition".
First off, I have no idea.
Second, based on your description, if it only says "Knowledge 5 Ranks", I don't see why you couldn't take it. (although I would understand roleplay reasons for a DM restricting it, if you had a deity that had a description like "loathes knowledge" or "encourages the frequent inflammation of printed material", which you don't)
Third, these are the 4th edition forums. While you might get some help, you might be better off asking where more people still play that edition. Check here, near the bottom under "D&D Previous Edition".
These aren't specific 4th edition forums. There are loads of other threads on here that are 3.5 edition. 3.5 Overpower Classes? Ninja? I'll edit my original post somewhat.
Corellan has no such hinderances. The writings for Complete Champion says that the devotions are part of the domains, but it doesn't say that you have to have the deity to take the feat. Not literally anyways.
Corellan has no such hinderances. The writings for Complete Champion says that the devotions are part of the domains, but it doesn't say that you have to have the deity to take the feat. Not literally anyways.
I'm AFB at the moment, but as far as I can recall, the only restrictions on taking domain feats are:
- You can only have two, and
- A cleric can give up a domain for the equivalent domain feat.
Whether you worship a particular deity or not doesn't matter for domain feats. A wizard, or a bard, or an archivist, or any other smart character could take Knowledge Devotion; so could a smart ranger.
These aren't specific 4th edition forums. There are loads of other threads on here that are 3.5 edition. 3.5 Overpower Classes? Ninja? I'll edit my original post somewhat.
Inaccuracy on my part. I have several tabs open, each to a different chunk of the forums, most of which are specific to 4e. Technically, by name, this one is not. (although, again technically, the specific question of the feat would fit in the Previous Editions Equipment/Skills/Feat section :D )
That said, the rules cut and dry agree with you, whether your DM does or not. Ultimately it's his call whether you can do that or not, but there's nothing in the rules that say you can't.
Inaccuracy on my part. I have several tabs open, each to a different chunk of the forums, most of which are specific to 4e. Technically, by name, this one is not. (although, again technically, the specific question of the feat would fit in the Previous Editions Equipment/Skills/Feat section :D )
That's true enough. But it does also fit the theme of this forum, because the question isn't just "what does this feat do?" The question also includes a "How do I convince my DM?" aspect.
Anything else I could say to make the argument go my way?
I was convinced you were right until I opened the book. Basically, you can only choose a domain feat that corresponds with your deity's domains. Unless you have no deity, but that point is mute as you already stated your character's deity is Corellon Larethian.
Source: Complete Champion, page 52.
This basically means that by RAW, your DM is right to deny you access to this feat. So don't focus on RAW when you're pleading your case. You could simply ask him if you can have it anyway.
That's true enough. But it does also fit the theme of this forum, because the question isn't just "what does this feat do?" The question also includes a "How do I convince my DM?" aspect.
That's why I said the specific question of the feat and not the post/topic in general. It was more of an "I'm not a moron" post than a "Ha, I'm still technically right" post. ;)
Third, these are the 4th edition forums.
Incorrect, 'What's a Player to Do?' is in the 'D&D Community' section of the forums, the 4th Edition section is above it on the main D&D forum page.
Now for the thread topic.
Why would your character be devoted to a domain that his/her deity doesn't have?
Incorrect, 'What's a Player to Do?' is in the 'D&D Community' section of the forums, the 4th Edition section is above it on the main D&D forum page.
Much appreciation at reiterating my mistake that has been discussed in detail and retconned in this thread already. Really needed the morale booster, and it was totally relevant to the conversation at hand when you entered the thread.
Yeah, there's no way to sway him as it's already been tried. Basically he's been looking for a way to deny me access to this feat because the Dragon Adept/Rogue and I both have high ranks in various knowledges, and we were both going to take this since our BAB is rather low due to our multiclassing and racials levels.
It says that yes, but if you want to sway him/her you RP the idea of knowledge is power. Then read from the same page "Domain feats are a new category of feats that signify a characters dedication to a particular religuos ideal (personally I would omit religous ideal but that be a problem if checks that) or tenet.
It just so happens to be a possible domain as well.
Much appreciation at reiterating my mistake that has been discussed in detail and retconned in this thread already. Really needed the morale booster, and it was totally relevant to the conversation at hand when you entered the thread.
Heh, I post as I go. And if it is not relevant to the conversation/thread, then it is best not to bring it up in the first place. ;)
I can't see any reason to deny you the feat, myself. Have you considered changing gods? Obviously, since knowledge is very important to your character, he should suck up to a god who's about knowledge, not Corellon.
Better yet, you should consider worshiping the entire elven pantheon. ;)
A domain feat usually corresponds to one of the domains to which a particular deity grants access, or those representing set of ideals.
The idea is to chose Domain feats that are in the sphere of influence of your Deity.
I myself am a large fan of the Knowledge Domain feat and generally will take a level in cleric of a God that has Knowledge, Mind or Inquisition as a Domain as they all grant access to the Knowledge Domain feat. Or worship no god so you can cherry pick the feats you want (within reason and ALWAYS to be DM approved).
The idea is to chose Domain feats that are in the sphere of influence of your Deity.
I myself am a large fan of the Knowledge Domain feat and generally will take a level in cleric of a God that has Knowledge, Mind or Inquisition as a Domain as they all grant access to the Knowledge Domain feat. Or worship no god so you can cherry pick the feats you want (within reason and ALWAYS to be DM approved).
Frankly if you're at the point where Clerics are in, but things like Knowledge Devotion are still subject to approval it is a hint someone is horribly confused. Knowledge Devotion is an excellent feat, but not so good it needs regulation. At least not in a game of that power level.
Add in the spell skillfull moment (1st lvl sor/wiz, +20 to next skill check) for a bonus of +34 (at 2nd lvl). If you roll a one on your 'feat check' you 'only' get +4 attack/damage. Any other roll gets +5.
Better yet, you should consider worshiping the entire elven pantheon. ;)
That would be a decent solution. Sehanine Moonbow grants access to the knowledge domain IIRC.
Anyhow, since it's that easy to 'adjust' the character and get the feat anyway, I would see no reason to deny a player that feat in the first place. Maybe the adjustment would be necessary to please the local rules lawyer, so the build is 'RAW' again. At my table, the entire issue would be so minor I'd prefer to spend as little time as possible on it
Whatever makes the player happy.CC suggests sticking to your deity's domains for a reason -- this IS still a role-playing game. You're playing a ranger that worships Corellon. It would seem that you have chosen a thematic that doesn't really fit what you're trying to do. If your DM is sticking with the "suggestion" of CC, then it would seem to me that he is simply trying to retain a modicome of intellectual integrity concerning the "role-playing" part of the game (after all -- he is the one running the game; which means that for him to have fun, he's gotta run it the way he sees fit).
I suggest that if you want certain mechanical thing that has a role-playing implication, you should probably create a character that is condusive to obtaining that mechanic. character creation is about choices. every time you choose a particular feature, you have excluded other features from use. this example is no different.
