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DM gimps jewel value

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
graveshot
Nov 15, 2008 9:29:30 Our DM, who is running Thunderspire Labyrinth, is currently making us barter to get monetary value out of our jewels as opposed to just letting us ues them as cash. Is this right? Without a good streetwise check I can only get 60% of the gem's value. With a good check maybe 75%. This makes me think my party is being gimped out if badly needed money. We arrived at this adventure with literally 3 100gp gems (which got us like 225 gp, which was then further abused by amped up price of goods) and about 1 magic item apiece(3 weapons, 2 armors). We even entered the encounter as level 3's. Is everything as it should be?
#2
DeathMutantLives
Nov 15, 2008 9:57:40 Hopefully, he'll compensate for the reduced value in some other way. From what I understand, the treasure distribution in Thunderspire is far below the DMG recommendations; like 1/3 to 1/2 of what the DMG recommends!
#3
Krusk
Nov 15, 2008 10:06:01 Technically the DMG says things sell back for 1/5 value. I dont know if this applies to gems or not, I generally say it doesn't if i run a game, but I don't know the official rule.

Magic items are also supposed to cost anywhere from +10%-30% above the listed value in the books, if purchased from a shop. The book also discourages the idea of magic item shops.

So the DM is probably doing it fairly close to the book.

Consider buying the craft magic item and brew potion ritual, so that you can make whatever magic items you want at cost.
#4
suomihullu_dup
Nov 15, 2008 11:29:16 Actually your GM is "gimping" you. Jewel are used as straight money conversion. It even says it in the DMG pg 124 under sub-heading gems,

"Precious gems are as good as currency. Characters can cash them out at full value or use them to purchase expensive items."

Plus it would make sense I would prefer to carry 3 pieces of Jade (worth 300 gps) rather than carrying around said gold safer as well. Thieves can't know if your rich, you ain't clanging around.

I guess the GM could say certain Gems are mined in the area around here so you get less value because they are common.
#5
Neutronium_Dragon
Nov 15, 2008 11:57:08 That's not a good idea. As soon as a player hears that, they're going to buy up gems and take them to somewhere that they're priced normally.
#6
drmorganes
Nov 15, 2008 12:58:38 Sounds like the DM is still stuck in previous editions, where PCs would rarely get more than 60% of the published value for sold loot.

That's not a good idea. As soon as a player hears that, they're going to buy up gems and take them to somewhere that they're priced normally.

And that's a problem how? Adding a little supply and demand economics to the game isn't necessarily a bad idea. However, a good DM will ensure that the PCs will find they make more money with less hassle by adventuring than becoming gem merchants.

Still, it may not be a bad little side adventure - with the PCs caught between warring merchant houses, crossed and double-crossed by thieves and corrupt officials, and suchlike.
#7
charke
Nov 15, 2008 20:12:11 I think the big problem is that the DM is right, because you agreed to let him be the DM. You may want to negotiate the situation but the bottom line is that he is running the game.

What you want to address is WHY your DM feels there needs to be a cost. Perhaps he just doesn't want the Players to have easy cash. Gold is heavy. Having gems is as good as a bag of holding for cash.

My opinion is that it will take a certain cost to use gems. You need a gemsmith to evaluate them. They can't be as good as cash because every single gem is different and only gemsmiths can properly appraise them.

Mark Charke
#8
graveshot
Nov 15, 2008 22:12:32 I don't want to sound like I'm bashing on my DM because he's been a really good and fair GM to us on all other things, and has given us just enough loot to keep us going and feeling challenged. I just wish he'd change his mind on this one issue, though I think when I look at this from his perspective, it makes sense that these gems would be worth less in the cutthroat market of Thunderspire, even if the rules say for them to be used as cash.

And as for the rebuying thing, he would definitely sell the jewels back to us at above market value.
#9
kuonji
Nov 16, 2008 1:08:34 Have you asked your DM why he is doing things as he is? It could be this is simply something he's always done and isn't aware of your unhappiness.

If you are really bent out of shape about it, point out the gem rules in the DMG and ask why he didn't let you all know about his house rule before the game started. Yea, it's kind of an ambush tactic, but I really dislike house rules being dropped on me without notice.
#10
dreison
Nov 16, 2008 11:45:39 I think it's your DMs game, not to mention it's a home game, so technically it doesn't matter if he makes a few of his own house rules. The selling gems thing can easily be broken down into a skill check. Are your fellow players aiding you in the streetwise checks like they should be? Or are you trying to hit the DC for a higher payout on your own? I wouldn't talk to the DM on such a small matter, I'd talk to your fellow gamers about aiding you in your roles for said matter.
#11
skalgrimm
Nov 16, 2008 22:44:25 I wouldn't object to this, if a good skill roll could get you above market value for a gem, and a bad skill roll got you below market value. Making it difficult or impossible to sell a gem for market value is fundamentally just reducing the value of all gems you find. That's a DM prerogative, but why would he do that?

Of course, if you could sell gems for above market value, then the party will always take the "good salesman" to sell gems, and get above market value for each of them. And then the DM is just inflating the value of all the gems you find. Seems simpler to just sell them at the listed values, to me.
#12
roivas
Nov 19, 2008 0:57:02 Try selling the gems to other adventurers or a jeweler, failing that try nobility. Someone will be willing to play an extra something for a "magically" enhanced gem, just have those bluff checks ready.
#13
wizarddog
Nov 19, 2008 2:22:16 A good DM should justify why he is house ruling something that is explicit in the rules (DM Guide).

If you feel the haggling is a fun part of the game then let it go. But you would think getting a gem at it's worth should be a easy DC. And why should streetwise be the skill? Why not Diplomacy?

If you find it tedious, tell him that If he just wants to give out less treasure, then give out less treasure. Eventually, you are just not going to bother with those gems if you can't get squat for them.

If he wants to make every shopping run a skill challenge then ask for experience because if the only way your going to get ahead is by investing in skills then you would rather level up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 graveshot Nov 15, 2008 9:29:30	Our DM, who is running Thunderspire Labyrinth, is currently making us barter to get monetary value out of our jewels as opposed to just letting us ues them as cash. Is this right? Without a good streetwise check I can only get 60% of the gem's value. With a good check maybe 75%. This makes me think my party is being gimped out if badly needed money. We arrived at this adventure with literally 3 100gp gems (which got us like 225 gp, which was then further abused by amped up price of goods) and about 1 magic item apiece(3 weapons, 2 armors). We even entered the encounter as level 3's. Is everything as it should be?
#2 DeathMutantLives Nov 15, 2008 9:57:40	Hopefully, he'll compensate for the reduced value in some other way. From what I understand, the treasure distribution in Thunderspire is far below the DMG recommendations; like 1/3 to 1/2 of what the DMG recommends!
#3 Krusk Nov 15, 2008 10:06:01	Technically the DMG says things sell back for 1/5 value. I dont know if this applies to gems or not, I generally say it doesn't if i run a game, but I don't know the official rule. Magic items are also supposed to cost anywhere from +10%-30% above the listed value in the books, if purchased from a shop. The book also discourages the idea of magic item shops. So the DM is probably doing it fairly close to the book. Consider buying the craft magic item and brew potion ritual, so that you can make whatever magic items you want at cost.
#4 suomihullu_dup Nov 15, 2008 11:29:16	Actually your GM is "gimping" you. Jewel are used as straight money conversion. It even says it in the DMG pg 124 under sub-heading gems, "Precious gems are as good as currency. Characters can cash them out at full value or use them to purchase expensive items." Plus it would make sense I would prefer to carry 3 pieces of Jade (worth 300 gps) rather than carrying around said gold safer as well. Thieves can't know if your rich, you ain't clanging around. I guess the GM could say certain Gems are mined in the area around here so you get less value because they are common.
#5 Neutronium_Dragon Nov 15, 2008 11:57:08	That's not a good idea. As soon as a player hears that, they're going to buy up gems and take them to somewhere that they're priced normally.
#6 drmorganes Nov 15, 2008 12:58:38	Sounds like the DM is still stuck in previous editions, where PCs would rarely get more than 60% of the published value for sold loot. That's not a good idea. As soon as a player hears that, they're going to buy up gems and take them to somewhere that they're priced normally. And that's a problem how? Adding a little supply and demand economics to the game isn't necessarily a bad idea. However, a good DM will ensure that the PCs will find they make more money with less hassle by adventuring than becoming gem merchants. Still, it may not be a bad little side adventure - with the PCs caught between warring merchant houses, crossed and double-crossed by thieves and corrupt officials, and suchlike.
#7 charke Nov 15, 2008 20:12:11	I think the big problem is that the DM is right, because you agreed to let him be the DM. You may want to negotiate the situation but the bottom line is that he is running the game. What you want to address is WHY your DM feels there needs to be a cost. Perhaps he just doesn't want the Players to have easy cash. Gold is heavy. Having gems is as good as a bag of holding for cash. My opinion is that it will take a certain cost to use gems. You need a gemsmith to evaluate them. They can't be as good as cash because every single gem is different and only gemsmiths can properly appraise them. Mark Charke
#8 graveshot Nov 15, 2008 22:12:32	I don't want to sound like I'm bashing on my DM because he's been a really good and fair GM to us on all other things, and has given us just enough loot to keep us going and feeling challenged. I just wish he'd change his mind on this one issue, though I think when I look at this from his perspective, it makes sense that these gems would be worth less in the cutthroat market of Thunderspire, even if the rules say for them to be used as cash. And as for the rebuying thing, he would definitely sell the jewels back to us at above market value.
#9 kuonji Nov 16, 2008 1:08:34	Have you asked your DM why he is doing things as he is? It could be this is simply something he's always done and isn't aware of your unhappiness. If you are really bent out of shape about it, point out the gem rules in the DMG and ask why he didn't let you all know about his house rule before the game started. Yea, it's kind of an ambush tactic, but I really dislike house rules being dropped on me without notice.
#10 dreison Nov 16, 2008 11:45:39	I think it's your DMs game, not to mention it's a home game, so technically it doesn't matter if he makes a few of his own house rules. The selling gems thing can easily be broken down into a skill check. Are your fellow players aiding you in the streetwise checks like they should be? Or are you trying to hit the DC for a higher payout on your own? I wouldn't talk to the DM on such a small matter, I'd talk to your fellow gamers about aiding you in your roles for said matter.
#11 skalgrimm Nov 16, 2008 22:44:25	I wouldn't object to this, if a good skill roll could get you above market value for a gem, and a bad skill roll got you below market value. Making it difficult or impossible to sell a gem for market value is fundamentally just reducing the value of all gems you find. That's a DM prerogative, but why would he do that? Of course, if you could sell gems for above market value, then the party will always take the "good salesman" to sell gems, and get above market value for each of them. And then the DM is just inflating the value of all the gems you find. Seems simpler to just sell them at the listed values, to me.
#12 roivas Nov 19, 2008 0:57:02	Try selling the gems to other adventurers or a jeweler, failing that try nobility. Someone will be willing to play an extra something for a "magically" enhanced gem, just have those bluff checks ready.
#13 wizarddog Nov 19, 2008 2:22:16	A good DM should justify why he is house ruling something that is explicit in the rules (DM Guide). If you feel the haggling is a fun part of the game then let it go. But you would think getting a gem at it's worth should be a easy DC. And why should streetwise be the skill? Why not Diplomacy? If you find it tedious, tell him that If he just wants to give out less treasure, then give out less treasure. Eventually, you are just not going to bother with those gems if you can't get squat for them. If he wants to make every shopping run a skill challenge then ask for experience because if the only way your going to get ahead is by investing in skills then you would rather level up.