We were playign last night and came across a tilting floor trap. I searched with a 29 perception score and was told i did not see anything out of the ordinary, so i entered the hallway. The floor triggered and threw me into a pit. I was later told the tilting floor had no DC to be spotted, by any skill. I was hit automatically and didnt get any save or way to avoid being auto damaged and throw into the pit where i was jumped by rats and insect. In 4e, every trap i know of has countermeasures, but older editions didnt.
First, Has anyone else ran into issues like this with updating old adventures? I thought he would convert and keep the same flavor but rework everything to match 4e, but thats not what happened.
Second, am i correct in being upset that i was automatically throw into a pit with a way to avoid it?
Third, He has mentioned auto death traps deeper in, along with several others that just cut off hands and such, but in 4e there are no handy spells to fix that like in older editions. I suspect that will be a problem as well.
Please any advice or thoughts are welcome. I was furious last night, ive calmed a bit today but still very upset about everything.
Thanks
Tylar
Older dungeons had stand-alone traps which convert very badly to 4E, they either aren't challenging, or they are puzzlers, solvable with specific approach (and often selected spells).
To be honest, a half-finished conversion 3.5 -> 4E has a lot of risk being a dull game. The DM's unwillingness to ad-lib and give you a chance even though it's not in the script would probably irritate me a little, too. However, if the DM has re-worked the combat encounters 4E style, and there are enough of them to keep you entertained, I'd advise just enjoying these and muddle through the rest in good humour.
He's already told you indirectly that one or more PCs will be made worthless by the end of the module. He admits he's not giving traps any method of detection, and further admits that there will be traps that will autokill and automaim PCs if they're not avoided. So you have a decision to make: Do you enjoy a game where your character is expendable? If so, soldier on, stop investing in the character any more than you feel compelled to, and have as much fun as you can.
However, in the much more likely chance that this is not what you're looking for, you need to talk to your DM. Hit him up, outside of game, and be frank and honest with him. Tell him what your concerns are, and ask him flatly if he plans to address the issues that have already presented themselves, and if he also plans to make changes to prevent further, similar issues from arising. If he doesn't seem all that interested, then bail. Have your character get killed, high-fives all around, GG and peace out.
But, most of all, talk to your DM. Find out what his goals and intentions are, and find out where he stands on the DMing style spectrum. If his DMing style isn't something that's going to match up with your playing style, don't try to force it, just leave on peaceful terms.
We were playign last night and came across a tilting floor trap. I searched with a 29 perception score and was told i did not see anything out of the ordinary, so i entered the hallway. The floor triggered and threw me into a pit. I was later told the tilting floor had no DC to be spotted, by any skill. I was hit automatically and didnt get any save or way to avoid being auto damaged and throw into the pit where i was jumped by rats and insect. In 4e, every trap i know of has countermeasures, but older editions didnt.
You're problem likely lies in how your searching.
Too many players simply say "I search...." Roll the dice, & report a #.
(BTW; You tend to see this style of "searching" etc coming alot more from players who started in 3.0/3.5/4e than you do of 2e & prior vets.)
Now just as a mechanic this is fine enough, but the problem is that it lacks description. And without descriptions stories are pretty lacking....
So as you progress deeper, make sure you add description to your search attempts. You don't have to go all OCD with it, but what you're actually doing (& how/where you're doing it) is often just as important, sometimes even more, than the #you roll.
Second, am i correct in being upset that i was automatically throw into a pit with a way to avoid it?
No, I don't think you are.
Because I think you failed to search in a way that would've gotten you info {see above}.
Treat this as a learning xp.
Third, He has mentioned auto death traps deeper in, along with several others that just cut off hands and such, but in 4e there are no handy spells to fix that like in older editions. I suspect that will be a problem as well.
Well, whatever the edition, you're about to have to learn the value of things like the 10' pole, the crowbar, good description, & maybe even common sense in this game.....
Don't worry, this isn't an impossible learning curve. Players (even as young as 12 or so) managed it easily enough in the early editions.
And although previous editions had handy fix-it spells for such injuries - this adventure wasn't written for levels where those were readily available. So everyone before you? They faced the same risks - with less hardy characters {4e characters are pretty durable}!
Please any advice or thoughts are welcome. I was furious last night, I’ve calmed a bit today but still very upset about everything.
I'm seconding talking to your DM. Is the game he wants to run the game you want to play?
I can think of three options.
1. Your DM needs to buckle down and convert the adventure for real into the 4th ed. That means everything. Encounters, loot, traps all get reworked. You can even offer to help him do it.
2. Play the adventure in the edition it was intended for. This is what my group did. Things worked much much better.
3. If the DM wants to play in a 3.5/4th ed hybrid game (which sucks in my experience) and you're not enjoying the game quit. It isn't worth getting mad over.
We were playign last night and came across a tilting floor trap. I searched with a 29 perception score and was told i did not see anything out of the ordinary, so i entered the hallway. The floor triggered and threw me into a pit. I was later told the tilting floor had no DC to be spotted, by any skill. I was hit automatically and didnt get any save or way to avoid being auto damaged and throw into the pit where i was jumped by rats and insect. In 4e, every trap i know of has countermeasures, but older editions didnt.
You're problem likely lies in how your searching.
Too many players simply say "I search...." Roll the dice, & report a #.
(BTW; You tend to see this style of "searching" etc coming alot more from players who started in 3.0/3.5/4e than you do of 2e & prior vets.)
Now just as a mechanic this is fine enough, but the problem is that it lacks description. And without descriptions stories are pretty lacking....
So as you progress deeper, make sure you add description to your search attempts. You don't have to go all OCD with it, but what you're actually doing (& how/where you're doing it) is often just as important, sometimes even more, than the #you roll.
Second, am i correct in being upset that i was automatically throw into a pit with a way to avoid it?
No, I don't think you are.
Because I think you failed to search in a way that would've gotten you info {see above}.
Treat this as a learning xp.Third, He has mentioned auto death traps deeper in, along with several others that just cut off hands and such, but in 4e there are no handy spells to fix that like in older editions. I suspect that will be a problem as well.
Well, whatever the edition, you're about to have to learn the value of things like the 10' pole, the crowbar, good description, & maybe even common sense in this game.....
Don't worry, this isn't an impossible learning curve. Players (even as young as 12 or so) managed it easily enough in the early editions.
And although previous editions had handy fix-it spells for such injuries - this adventure wasn't written for levels where those were readily available. So everyone before you? They faced the same risks - with less hardy characters {4e characters are pretty durable}!
You'll need to write yourself a script:
I search the floor. I search the ceiling. I search the left wall. I search the right wall. I search (each individual) fixture within 10 feet (don't forget a pole).
After you have gone through this, I recommend doing the same, only with Arcane checks, since some are only detectible through detect magic. Now whatever trap you stumble upon, be sure to add it's keyword to the list above.
WARNING: Many DM's counter this, by putting what are known as Explosive Runes in random places. The result of this, is this:
Player: "I open the door"
DM: "Take 26 damage as the trap explodes..."
Next Door.
Player: "I search the door"
DM: "You see explosive runes take 30 damage as the trap explodes..."
Next Door.
Player: "I open the door"
DM: "Take 28 damage as the trap explodes..."
Next Door.
Player: "I take 50 points of damage, WTF is in the next room?!"
Or in my case when this recently happened, I (the player) took the door that left the game.
Again, Thanks for the advice.
Tylar
Thanks all. As per the suggestions, i spoke with the DM out of game after the other players were gone. IU expressed my concerns about the health of the campain long term, as i know the other players would get upset if they were insta killed or maimed as well as the encounters and treasure issues. He has agreed he did not convert things as well as he should have, and gave us a choice to either reduce our gold by a % to be in line with 4e or just not find treasure for a bit...we reduced. He then spent some time revamping the encounters to bring them more on par with 4e, and has addressed the traps/hazards accordingly with some sort of countermeasure or attack roll to match 4e. Overall, i am very glad we had a frank talk, and he said it was appreciated to get candid feedback, as it was his first conversion from first edition to 4th ( which i admit is a large undertaking ).
Again, Thanks for the advice.
Tylar
This...this is pretty awesome. Like, "he said it was appreciated to get candid feedback," is something I'm not sure I've heard a DM say after presenting a less than enjoyable adventure. He's aware he's taking a risk, he's giving it an honest and fair shot, knows it's a daunting system, and is aware of, and interested in, feedback regarding his efforts. The only thing that could possibly make this a better situation is if he'd actively soliticited feedback, but a lot of people don't do that because they expect that in that situation they'd just be told what they want to hear, so I don't blame him for not doing that.
I really hope the situation continues to play out as well as that post hints that it will.
Ask the DM if he wants to play baseball, using the rules of football, or just start randomly using older edition rules yourself...oh, we hit a trap that cut off my hand, I had stoneskin up so it absorbed one of the hits, onto the next trap.
Yeah, that's the exact opposite of helpful, is what that is. Maybe next time read a bit of the thread, like the very last post before yours.
You're problem likely lies in how your searching.
Too many players simply say "I search...." Roll the dice, & report a #.
(BTW; You tend to see this style of "searching" etc coming alot more from players who started in 3.0/3.5/4e than you do of 2e & prior vets.)
Now just as a mechanic this is fine enough, but the problem is that it lacks description. And without descriptions stories are pretty lacking....
Ah, yes. Because nothing says "high fantasy heroic adventure" like gotcha moments from being insufficiently forensic.
Which is to say: I understand your attitude and would still need to take a moment to think if I had to decide between playing your way and stabbing myself with a fork.
I can go on and on haha. But i did like someone else who posted in here, I grabbed my stuff and told him I was done. I enjoyed playing just to play but eventually its not worth it to deal with the crap.
Consider yourself lucky to have a DM that would actually admit he/she is wrong. Some of us get stuck with a total moron
You're problem likely lies in how your searching.
Too many players simply say "I search...." Roll the dice, & report a #.
(BTW; You tend to see this style of "searching" etc coming alot more from players who started in 3.0/3.5/4e than you do of 2e & prior vets.)
Now just as a mechanic this is fine enough, but the problem is that it lacks description. And without descriptions stories are pretty lacking....
Ah, yes. Because nothing says "high fantasy heroic adventure" like gotcha moments from being insufficiently forensic.
Which is to say: I understand your attitude and would still need to take a moment to think if I had to decide between playing your way and stabbing myself with a fork.
Well, it depends. Are you stabbing yourself in the mouth? Does the fork have pie on it? These are the kind of details we need :33.
Ah, yes. Because nothing says "high fantasy heroic adventure" like gotcha moments from being insufficiently forensic.
Which is to say: I understand your attitude and would still need to take a moment to think if I had to decide between playing your way and stabbing myself with a fork.
Well, it depends. Are you stabbing yourself in the mouth? Does the fork have pie on it? These are the kind of details we need :33.
These are also details that I would also need consider when deciding between stabbing myself with a fork and playing Grognak, Forensic Accountant Barbarian.
What I'm saying is, there are a LOT of fork-stabbings that I might prefer to that.
Some of us get stuck with a total moron
Well, you're not stuck with any DM. If it gets intolerable, you got feet. Use 'em.
Grognak, Forensic Accountant Barbarian.
Is it bad that I really, really want to see this character in action?
"Hmm... you can see here by the blood stains on the wall that the murderer was a brutish fellow, ripping through the victims with a heavy bladed tool, such as an axe or large sword. This happened quite recently and has sadly lost us the opportunity to get other clues, because the victim's surplus leftovers appears to have covered them quite badly. However, his DNA seems to indicate that the victim's taxes were not in order. Though the victim's death is thus quite deserved, the murderer must be apprehanded for interfering with an officer of the law!"
"Grognak... you just burst in here, hewed through several of the suspects with your greataxe, look the blood is still dripping from it, and proceeded to use their fresh corpses to bludgeon the rest of the suspects to death as well..."