1. The DM felt as if I was leveling faster than the mage/fighter/ranger/druid in the group and all of the xp I have been getting is being nerfed. One of the bonuses, I thought, to being a rogue was that it was the fastest to level...
2. The DM thought it would be highly unfair if I could just go around pick pocketing to get more gold than anyone else. Also in dungeons I have been *combat looting* and trying to pilfer as much as possible, without being obvious of course, before my companions even notice. The DMs *fix* for this was make it so that the amount I got from pick pocketing was so infinitesimal, (2-12 silver MAX). Whereas if the group just collectivly loots we get 20-70 gold.
3. After the first main adventure the quest giver was handing out *in his terms* exceptional loot, The fighter recieved a sword+1 with 1lb weight, and a shield+1, the ranger a bow with an extra attack per round(NUTS!), the mage a bag of holding, and the druid a ring of elemental command, and me a shirt -1ac. As he gave me the shirt he said he did so to "better define my role in the group." Does this mean thieves are really bad warriors with the ability to pick locks?
So my question I hope to get answered is this.
Is there any reason for me to continue in this campaign as a thief? And also, is there any way possible to *fix* the issues I'm having...
Any help would be VERY greatly appreciated
1. what edition are you playing? I believe that XP requirements for leveling are the same for every class. Xp should be given equally to all mebers of the group. aside from RP bonuses etc.
2. I can see most people only having so much but ask your DM to create a loot table for pocket picking. The risk of getting caught should at least give you the chance at some cool loots ie. rolling 100 on percentiles. you dont have to get awesome things every time, but you should be rewarded for playing a thief as a thief.
3. Does the shirt Do Anything? otherwise use it to muffle the screams of your party members as you slit thier throats and take all thier shinies.
(kidding.... mostly)
I reserve my opionon on to stay, leave or reroll until i hear your answers.
Pre 3.0 different classes leveled at different rates. It created problems like the OP is experiencing.
Everyone at the table needs to be on the same team. You and the DM need to have an out of character talk about what you both expect from the game and get on the same page. Either you need to stop pickpocketing/looting or he needs to learn to be ok with it and create roleplaying opportunities out of it.
By the way most groups I have played with have gotten rid of XP by now. The DM has up level up when it fits the story.
So, the OP is playing a "Thief" which, iirc is the actual name of what we now call the "Rogue" class. And it had always been my understanding, in the lore of the DnD universe, it is the personality of a character that draws them to a class. A deft-handed scamp that grows up making his living by stealing food or money to survive and learning to hide in shadows from guards is the kind of person that grows into the Rogue/Thief class.
Therefore, it is only natural that that person continues to act like a Rogue/Thief. I never punish a player for picking pockets in my game. Their character might be punished should they pick the wrong pocket and get caught.
In regards to your numbered points:
1. Like GelatinousOctahedron mentioned above my post, ask if the DM wouldn't just rather set a time frame when PC's level up. If everybody levels up at the same time then nobody should get butt-hurt because someone is levelling faster or slower.
2. The DM shouldn't punish any class for acting like their class. Thieves and rogues pick pockets, it's what they do. Also, any thief knows you're only going to get chump change lifting wallets, the real money comes from big heists / scores. The DM isn't wrong in that regard, imo. But I still think it's wrong for anyone to be punished for playing to their class.
However, your behavior of combat looting (and as such picking pockets) could be detrimental to your group synergy. Does your character truly care so little about his companions that he is willing to risk shortening his time with the group by stealing from them (in a way, by taking what they can't have in combat). This, though, is a good opportunity to role-play and flesh out the character though. Perhaps early on this rogue doesn't feel the bonds of fellowship and does what he must to survive, but later on his behavior might wane, finding it less necessary or even rude to take from the party when they aren't watching.
Here's a thought: Are there any lawful good characters in the party? Because, what if your purse-snatching behavior contributed to the party loot? I can think of more than a few groups from movies/comics/books etc. where they all approved of having a thief of sorts in the party so that they could all eat for the day.
3. You dropped an AC, is that really bad? Although the "better define my role in a group" line makes me nervous.
I think, and this is my opinion, that there's a minor personality clash happening here between you and the DM. You want to be a thief, being disruptive might not be your intent, but the DM perceives it as such. The DM has some kind of problem with characters acting outside the norm (maybe a bit prudish ?
), and as such is trying to push you into a role. His pushing is gonna make you push back, where he'll push back, then you'll push harder, he'll push harder, things will escalate, you'll rage on the forums, and a party split will happen.I'm siding with you, but I'm probably jumping to conclusions about your DM. (Because every time I see a forum post about a DM that only allows "good characters" in his game, I think the guy's a tightly wound something or other who just can't handle reality, or has a limited imagination when it comes to the spectrum of good/evil/and everything in between.)
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...
Easy solution. Stop being evil.
Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief. You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.
As for the combat looting, what I was intending on doing is taking my share and just making it a little bigger. that way its not split evenly, however because the amount I did get was so small it wasnt even worth sharing
Thanks for the ideas =D
As for the combat looting, what I was intending on doing is taking my share and just making it a little bigger. that way its not split evenly, however because the amount I did get was so small it wasnt even worth sharing
Thanks for the ideas =D
So what you're saying is that at the same time that you ARE taking more then your share, you are also trying to make it sound like you're not.
Bit confused.
2. Have to agree with him there as well, doing it once in while to get an important item, or small handful of coins to go to local tavern is alright. But most people do "I look for richest looking guy wandering streets and PP him" every time its your turn hoping to get millions of gold a night is retard. So we even house ruled you can ony get some much silver/gold per day.
3. AC in 2nd was suppose to go lower, though with some items they said +1 (which meant you got -1) and some items said -1 in which you were suppose to get the -1. But if you did get a bad item, just play more and see if it keeps happening.
This also depends on how you play in which you gave us no info. Are the the standard evil rogue? Screwing over the rest of party and stealing there items? Planning to kill them in their sleep so you wins d&d? Think to just stay in town to PP nobles all day and get rich while rest of PCs have 5-10gp to their name? Killing innocents and guards in town all day just for fun? This type of play is pretty average in newer players as their ideal of "fun" (and saddly even some vet players) but it often annoys the DM and other players. Its possable your getting "bad items" also cause of the play style and it might be the dms form of revenge (which is bad dming and he should talk to you oocly instead of punishing you in game).
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...
Easy solution. Stop being evil.
Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief. You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.
Isn't the whole point of being a thief is to loot more then anybody else?
Also how being greedy is evil? ;)
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...
Easy solution. Stop being evil.
Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief. You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.
Isn't the whole point of being a thief is to loot more then anybody else?
No.
Once again for the combat looting my character does it so that when we are in town and people need repairs/potions/provisions I can offer to pay for them, thus giving them a reason to keep me around. For all they know I'm just an entrepreneur with daggers.
As for thieves being good, that in itself is a VERY rare thing. sure some people like to play the Robin Hood whose main goal is to overthrow the oppresive rulers and give back to the people. However, 99% of all other thieves do it to survive/greed. From a roleplaying perspective I find it hard to see someone who has lived on scraps, and whatever he could steal for most of his life to give anyone else a fair share.
I get the fact that I shouldn't be able to buy a castle with the things I steal from pickpocketing, but honestly 10-15 copper an attempt isnt worth the chance that I get caught and beheaded. If I wanted to make money the normal way I would've rolled a fighter.
P.S DnD 2e THIEF is an actual subclass of rogue, if I was just a rogue I could see myself being more of the scout/spy but I'm not. Imma thief.
Your class name has no bearing whatsoever on your character's personality.
Honestly without the aspect of getting more than usual there is no point to being a thief.
Completely untrue. There is NEVER a good excuse to screw over your fellow teammates.
If I were to play a goody-two-shoes than I'm not needed in the party's group. Yeah early on in the campain thieves are the only ones who can pick locks, but if you have a lvl2 mage, you can just cast Knock. I also know that you arent allowed to just stand in town and pick pockets all day, but by all means if im in a tavern and buy food/drinks for my party I would like to be at least able to get my money back before I leave.
Why? You were provided goods and services; those who provided them are entitled to just compensation. Your character is an ass.
Once again for the combat looting my character does it so that when we are in town and people need repairs/potions/provisions I can offer to pay for them, thus giving them a reason to keep me around. For all they know I'm just an entrepreneur with daggers.
It would be better if they kept you around because you were a good, reliable teammate.
As for thieves being good, that in itself is a VERY rare thing.
PC's are by definition exceptional.
sure some people like to play the Robin Hood whose main goal is to overthrow the oppresive rulers and give back to the people. However, 99% of all other thieves do it to survive/greed. From a roleplaying perspective I find it hard to see someone who has lived on scraps, and whatever he could steal for most of his life to give anyone else a fair share.
Then don't play a character with that background.
Then don't play a character with that background.
I get the fact that I shouldn't be able to buy a castle with the things I steal from pickpocketing, but honestly 10-15 copper an attempt isnt worth the chance that I get caught and beheaded.[/quote[
Then stop trying. You won't get arrested, and the DM will stop disliking your extremely-dislikeable character.
Funny thing is at first the evil alignment was there for completion and was never meant to be picked by PCs in first place. Im not saying "Dont be evil" There is many evil players that are just selflish, have no compassion or empathy, etc. Just do it in moderation and remember, even evil people have friends they would never stab in back or screw over for a few coins. When someone ask you to save the town and the rest of the party is doing it cause its right you tell the quest giver "Ill do it for some gold".
Well if thats the case why do I even have pickpocket? Actually, in that manner, why not make is so that the ONLY alignments you can choose from are Nuet/Lawful/Chaotic/Good and just throw out evil.
I've done that as a DM.
If you choose to play an evil char you shouldn't be penalized for it, you're just roleplaying well.
There is a difference between good roleplaying and disruptive roleplaying.
Well if thats the case why do I even have pickpocket? Actually, in that manner, why not make is so that the ONLY alignments you can choose from are Nuet/Lawful/Chaotic/Good and just throw out evil. .
That is, in fact, my SOP.
A DM should never penalize the player for his choice of class or how he plays it as long as its not sucking everyone elses fun.The DM should go with the flow more,it makes for some good times when you may have just PPed the next BBEG and accidently stolen something important to his plans.
Stupid monocle that turned out to be a phylactery...i just wanted a nice monocle to blend in and look sophiscated...
If either the DM or another player in the group is not ok with it, then don't do it. It will mean someone at the group is not having fun with your PCs behavior and the default in the game is that PCs are heroes..
I have played with people who played theives that stole from other group members in character and have had the only evil PC in a party that was not evil. Everyone agreed that this was ok from the beginning and in each case we all knew each other pretty well going in so we had fun.
Honestly without the aspect of getting more than usual there is no point to being a thief.
Completely untrue. There is NEVER a good excuse to screw over your fellow teammates.
Why? You were provided goods and services; those who provided them are entitled to just compensation. Your character is an ass.
It would be better if they kept you around because you were a good, reliable teammate.I get the fact that I shouldn't be able to buy a castle with the things I steal from pickpocketing, but honestly 10-15 copper an attempt isnt worth the chance that I get caught and beheaded.
Then stop trying. You won't get arrested, and the DM will stop disliking your extremely-dislikeable character.
You have no idea what an evil selfish thief is do you? The whole reason why I posted was because I was trying to roleplay an EVIL character, and was being penalized for it. D&D is a ROLEPLAYING game, not a -group of 5 merry-go-lucky adventures group together to fight off the forces of evil with hugs- game. If I feel that my character would rip off the tavern keeper to get a free drink, than by all means thats good roleplaying by doing so. What you are trying to suggest is that all characters are righteous paladins and that would never screw anyone over intentionally. Which im sure in some campaigns that may be so, but from my point of view, that is a bad campaign.
Also thanks to everyone for the ACTUAL advice as to what would help out my situation, without just saying dont do it.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />You have no idea what an evil selfish thief is do you?
Evidently, an inappropriate character for this campaign.
The whole reason why I posted was because I was trying to roleplay an EVIL character, and was being penalized for it. D&D is a ROLEPLAYING game, not a group of 5 merry-go-lucky adventures group together to fight off the forces of evil with hugs game.
Yes, and of course, those are the only only options, with nothing in between. There can't possibly be a spectrum of possibilities with characters who are flawed, but still essentially heroic. You've opened my eyes, thank you for the enlightenment. There are only the extremes, how could I have not seen this in something like thirty years of playing RPGs?
If I feel that my character would rip off the tavern keeper to get a free drink than by all means thats good roleplaying by doing it. What you are trying to suggest is that all characters are righteous paladins and that would never screw anyone over intentionally. Which im sure in some campaigns that may be so, but from my point of view, that is a bad campaign.
You're the one causing problems in the game. You're the one impeding everybody else's fun, and as a game, D&D is supposed to be fun for everybody. If you're getting your jollies by screwing over the other players, then this is YOUR problem, not theirs.
It's simple: not all characters are appropriate for all games. Your character, obviously, is not appropriate for the kind of game the DM wants to run. If I'm running a grim-and-gritty street-level Punisher style of superhero game, Superman is not appropriate. If I'm running a four-color Justice League superhero game, then The Punisher is not appropriate. You either need to adjust your character's attitude, or make a new one, or quit.
Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?
Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?
As a thief, who gets thrown into a group of 4 people he doesnt know, has no respect for (YET) and really could care less if they died, its reasonable that I would in fact steal some small things. And as their reason for keeping me around is as simple as I buy all their provisions. Granted it was with money that should've gone to them in the first place. I'm not stealing EVERY thing because eventually they would figure it out, and I would be instakilled. Also they dont notice me stealing, and since they know the difference between IC and OOC, they arent really offended by it. Sure if a broadsword of instant killing drops, I would let the fighters fight for it. I'm not impeding anyones fun, it's just neither I nor the DM knew what to do to make things more 'balanced' another reason why I posted initially. If you truly have a problem with peoples characters being distastefull than you should be playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island, and not D&D. Every character is going to be different and have flaws, whats my characters flaw? Well, obviously that he grew up stealing, thats all he really knows, why would he stop now?
Anyways, despite the previous statement stating that our DM placed no restrictions on alignment (other than class requireds [Ranger, Paladin, Druid]) he has slowly been modifying his rules and actions to severely hamper OP's ability to roleplay his character (which I tend to enjoy watching him roleplay as it does provide *most* of the group with entertainment. [I say most as the DM does not like allowing him many oportunities to properly perfom his abilities in align with his abilities, and the DM's wife [the Ranger] constantly glares at OP and the Warrior, and doesn't much approve of much role play that doesn't coincide with her way of thinking.] Though the rest of the group does.)
The whole reason why I posted was because I was trying to roleplay an EVIL character, and was being penalized for it. D&D is a ROLEPLAYING game, not a group of 5 merry-go-lucky adventures group together to fight off the forces of evil with hugs game.
Yes, and of course, those are the only only options, with nothing in between. There can't possibly be a spectrum of possibilities with characters who are flawed, but still essentially heroic. You've opened my eyes, thank you for the enlightenment. There are only the extremes, how could I have not seen this in something like thirty years of playing RPGs?
Nat20 resist sarcasm roll. (oh yeah, we're playing AD&D 2nd Ed. so a Nat 1 to resist.)
That was unnecessary, the issue here is he is trying to properly RP the way he designed his character, after informing the DM his alignment, and the DM is going out of his way to prohibit OP from doing many, many things that would be 'IC'.
If I feel that my character would rip off the tavern keeper to get a free drink than by all means thats good roleplaying by doing it. What you are trying to suggest is that all characters are righteous paladins and that would never screw anyone over intentionally. Which im sure in some campaigns that may be so, but from my point of view, that is a bad campaign.
You're the one causing problems in the game. You're the one impeding everybody else's fun, and as a game, D&D is supposed to be fun for everybody. If you're getting your jollies by screwing over the other players, then this is YOUR problem, not theirs.
Again, as I said before, OP is *NOT* causing issues in the game. The DM is causing the problems.
It's simple: not all characters are appropriate for all games. Your character, obviously, is not appropriate for the kind of game the DM wants to run. If I'm running a grim-and-gritty street-level Punisher style of superhero game, Superman is not appropriate. If I'm running a four-color Justice League superhero game, then The Punisher is not appropriate. You either need to adjust your character's attitude, or make a new one, or quit.
Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?
If this character is "not appropriate" for this game, then perhaps the DM should have placed that restriction prior to enabling the character to enter the world, instead of making it VERY unfair to OP and the players that want to see OP RP his character the way he intended, and the way we know he should be, as well as he *SHOULD* be a higher level than the group, since a Thief in AD&D 2nd Ed. has a lower XP req to level.
And why do we not "ditch' him 'IC'"?? Because he has a certain skill set that none of us posess, and is currently invaluable to the group. In addition, aside from combat looting, most his 'evil' actions are typically done when none of the group is around him.
P.S. the ring I acquired was a DM crafted item with (lesser) Weather Control spell imprinted.
Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?
As a thief, who gets thrown into a group of 4 people he doesnt know, has no respect for (YET) and really could care less if they died, its reasonable that I would in fact steal some small things. And as their reason for keeping me around is as simple as I buy all their provisions. Granted it was with money that should've gone to them in the first place. I'm not stealing EVERY thing because eventually they would figure it out, and I would be instakilled. Also they dont notice me stealing, and since they know the difference between IC and OOC, they arent really offended by it. Sure if a broadsword of instant killing drops, I would let the fighters fight for it. I'm not impeding anyones fun, it's just neither I nor the DM knew what to do to make things more 'balanced' another reason why I posted initially. If you truly have a problem with peoples characters being distastefull than you should be playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island, and not D&D. Every character is going to be different and have flaws, whats my characters flaw? Well, obviously that he grew up stealing, thats all he really knows, why would he stop now?
Your options remain the same. Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.
Your options remain the same. Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.
Or find a way to help the DM make things more 'balanced'. That way he sees that not everyone has to be good, and that an evil char brings things to the table that make the game more fun for everyone... like torture, hostages, shady deals, etc. (Which is why I posted in the first place, to resolve issues without having to kill off a perfectly good character for really no reason whatsoever) but those things are really hard to do when everytime I try 30 magical archers appear that are aimed at me should I try anything evil.
Also if you dont have any ideas as to how to help resolve things without "EVIL IS BAD, BAD IS NO GOOD, DONT DO IT YOU WILL DIE!" than I'm done talking to you =D
Your options remain the same. Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.
Or find a way to help the DM make things more 'balanced'. That way he sees that not everyone has to be good, and that an evil char brings things to the table that make the game more fun for everyone... like torture, hostages, shady deals, etc. (Which is why I posted in the first place, to resolve issues without having to kill off a perfectly good character for really no reason whatsoever) but those things are really hard to do when everytime I try 30 magical archers appear that are aimed at me should I try anything evil.
Also if you dont have any ideas as to how to help resolve things without "EVIL IS BAD, BAD IS NO GOOD, DONT DO IT YOU WILL DIE!" than I'm done talking to you =D
IF you roleplay properly, Evil PCs cause conflicts with Good PCs. Simple. Yes, EVIL BAD, if the rest of the group is good.
Oh and I liked that remark about Hello Kitty.
And thats the challenge and the fun part of it for me. =D How do I do evil things without getting caught.
You must spend a lot of time away from the party then, what are they doing while you are away being evil? Sitting in town waiting?
EDIT: And a closeted evil char is gonna have a heckuva time pretending to be good whenever he's not evildoing.
Again, as I said before, OP is *NOT* causing issues in the game. The DM is causing the problem
The DM isn't the one playing an Evil character in a group that I can only assume is not evil. I don't really see how he's causing the mproblem, aside from trying to curb a greedy PC.
Your options remain the same. Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.
Or find a way to help the DM make things more 'balanced'. That way he sees that not everyone has to be good, and that an evil char brings things to the table that make the game more fun for everyone... like torture, hostages, shady deals, etc. (Which is why I posted in the first place, to resolve issues without having to kill off a perfectly good character for really no reason whatsoever) but those things are really hard to do when everytime I try 30 magical archers appear that are aimed at me should I try anything evil.
Also if you dont have any ideas as to how to help resolve things without "EVIL IS BAD, BAD IS NO GOOD, DONT DO IT YOU WILL DIE!" than I'm done talking to you =D
Thank God.
You must spend a lot of time away from the party then, what are they doing while you are away being evil? Sitting in town waiting?
The 'Evil' im playing is the look out for myself before others, greedy, wont do quests to help poor villagers unless i get SOMETHING in return besides gratitude evil. Not Hitler evil or stalin evil, or hell even Brain from pinky and the brain evil. just plain old selfish evil
You must spend a lot of time away from the party then, what are they doing while you are away being evil? Sitting in town waiting?
The 'Evil' im playing is the look out for myself before others, greedy, wont do quests to help poor villagers unless i get SOMETHING in return besides gratitude evil. Not Hitler evil or stalin evil, or hell even Brain from pinky and the brain evil. just plain old selfish evil
And this relates to my quote how........
That im still with the party 90% of the time
So you are evil, and yet 90 percent of the time you have no problem being good?
There is plenty of room for inter party conflict but most often it isn't a real big winner. As a new member to the group going straight to the more disruptive characters isn't the wisest choice.
Honestly i wouldn't be surprised that Daementos_Stargazer is not in fact csnick, at least by looking at the join date of Daementos
The DM isn't the one playing an Evil character in a group that I can only assume is not evil. I don't really see how he's causing the problem, aside from trying to curb a greedy PC.
obviously he's not playing the character, but when as a group we loot 20 gold from 3-4 creatures we kill. Then there is a wholesale slaughter of 18 Orcs and a Half-Ogre, the Thief distracts the groups attention to a stockpile of food (just having rescued starved prisoners) he goes and loots the coin purses off all the bodies and gets a grand total of 20 SILVER? If instead it would have been a group loot, there would have been closer to 40 GOLD. How could the loot table be so drastically skewed on the same corpses?
And again, not to mention the fact of the original mention of the first post... The Mage gets a Bag of Holding (250 lbs), I (the Druid) get a Ring of (lesser) Weather Control, the Fighter gets a near indestructible Bastard Sword that has no weight and a +1 Shield with an unknown magical enchantment, and the Ranger gets a bow that has a Pre-initiative attack bonus (so 3 attacks every round), then the Thief gets a Spidersilk Shirt that provides a -1 AC.
Now if you're wondering about how they killed that many Orcs, the Ranger (the DMs wife) had chosen Orcs as her Favored Enemy (so +4 To Hit +2 Damage) and then he gave her the bow knowing they would be going to face Orcs. The rest of the party kinda just stands around while she just mows them down in a hail of arrows.
i understand where the OP is coming from when its down to his character, and i mean this is turning into an alignment debate almost. being "evil" without running around raping the churches and burning the women type evil isnt nesscarily evil, he may not be a "good" person either, but he still is a more for oneself type person without being either of those. im not seeing any real evil acts yet, besides my atrocious sentence structure. Salla has given sound advice,hes not suggesting a radical comeplete overhaul change of character, but something more in fitting with the campaign.Explain to the DM how you feel and let him know your willing to compromise and change a couple things if he will lift up some of these restrictions.
Let me refer you to this statment:
Your options remain the same. Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.
Changing characters or quitting would be considered a major overhaul, imo.
Of course, I begin to suspect that, if the way the OP is behaving on this board is how he treats the DM, the DM may be trying to get rid of more than an unlikeable character.
Which brings us neatly around to 'change the character's behavior'. Dial back the greedy douchebaggery.
Of course, I begin to suspect that, if the way the OP is behaving on this board is how he treats the DM, the DM may be trying to get rid of more than an unlikeable character.
combat looting and an occasional (three instances) of pick pocketing in taverns is greedy douchbaggery? Or distacting the group to get first picks at corpse loot. The group of 4 Good characters will be more concerned about getting food for the starved prisoners, he used this knowledge to get them out of sight. Does this make him greedy, yes. Douchey, not so much. Everyone expects this from a Thief and is ok with it. His backstory was in a week before the campaign began and the OP even stated his intent to steal, just not from the group. The DM proceeded to allow the Thief into the story, then starts changing rules every time we've met.
The DM isn't the one playing an Evil character in a group that I can only assume is not evil. I don't really see how he's causing the problem, aside from trying to curb a greedy PC.
obviously he's not playing the character, but when as a group we loot 20 gold from 3-4 creatures we kill. Then there is a wholesale slaughter of 18 Orcs and a Half-Ogre, the Thief distracts the groups attention to a stockpile of food (just having rescued starved prisoners) he goes and loots the coin purses off all the bodies and gets a grand total of 20 SILVER? If instead it would have been a group loot, there would have been closer to 40 GOLD. How could the loot table be so drastically skewed on the same corpses?
And again, not to mention the fact of the original mention of the first post... The Mage gets a Bag of Holding (250 lbs), I (the Druid) get a Ring of (lesser) Weather Control, the Fighter gets a near indestructible Bastard Sword that has no weight and a +1 Shield with an unknown magical enchantment, and the Ranger gets a bow that has a Pre-initiative attack bonus (so 3 attacks every round), then the Thief gets a Spidersilk Shirt that provides a -1 AC.
Now if you're wondering about how they killed that many Orcs, the Ranger (the DMs wife) had chosen Orcs as her Favored Enemy (so +4 To Hit +2 Damage) and then he gave her the bow knowing they would be going to face Orcs. The rest of the party kinda just stands around while she just mows them down in a hail of arrows.
1. If you really thought I was implying he was actually playing the thief you completely and utterly missed my point.
2. Well it wasn't a group loot, it was one character attempting to rip off the rest of the party. I can see how your DM might be biased.
3. The spidersilk shirt bit is creepy, I agree with your/csnick (if you aren't the same person) on this one.
4. So? If a player took an ability that lets her do well against orcs and the party never fought orcs, she should be pissed.
Random loot tables aren't going to fix this. The only way to fix it is have a heart to heart with the DM, and find out what he finds objectionable about your character's behavior. Is it that he wants to tell a heros storyline, and your character has a bad tone? If so, perhaps there's a way that you can modify the tone of your character while still roleplaying. Is it that you take a lot of time with your schemes, and he feels the rest of the group is just waiting while you can do your solo quests? If so, perhaps you can figure out modified pickpocket rules that are faster, or you can figure out how to make your thievery be more group focused. (sneaking up and laying traps for a fight always a crowd-pleaser). Maybe your DM just doesn't like the pizza your bring to the game, and switching vendors would make him happier with your character. At this point, I don't know, and neither do you.
At the same time, it wouldn't hurt to talk with the DM's wife. It sounds like she's glaring, and that's not a good sign. In a perfect world, the DM's wife would have exactly the same power as any other char, but in the real world, if everyone loves your character but the DM's wife, you may find yourself kickked out of the group. She may have clear complaints that you can fix easily.
And, while you're at it, if the group dynamics are as fractured as it appears from here, it may make sense to do a brief anonymous survey to find out what kind of stories all the people want to tell, and how much roleplaying they want to do, and if there are other issues they want to raise.
You also haven't really talked about what you're willing to do to be part of this group. If the answer comes back "I, the DM, hate thieves", would you be willing to change your class? You asked if you should leave the group, and if you are completely unwilling to compromise, then leaving is probably your only option. But, I hope for the sake of the game, you're willing to make an effort to find the root cause, and compromise. There's a breadth of characters you can roleplay, and if one is causing friction and tension, would it be worth it to you to find another character that didn't?
(Also, if you're new to the group, you might want to find out, "Was there tension before you came"? If the answer is no, then your character is the cause. That's probably something you need to fix fi you're going to roleplay long term)
being "evil" without running around raping the churches and burning the women type evil
But in fact just someone who will do whatever means necessary to survive, and would bring flavor to the game. The example is that a bunch of bandits attack us at night, we kill all but one and we want information as to why we were attacked. obviously the 4 good people wouldnt resort to torture, but I would... Also for willingness to compromise I told him that should the occasion arise that my character does something stupid like combat looting, BUT gets caught, obviously theres a good chance I will be banned from the party. In which case I told him I'd probably roll a paladin (the worst kind to, the devout christian bigot! lol
) And I'm starting to feel as if he would rather have that character be played, than a thief. As for what he finds objectionable about my character has nothing to do with the schemes taking to long or the group waiting for me to decide what to steal. His only problem is he feels that if I get more gold than anyone else, I will eventually become more overpowered than anyone else. And I'm pretty sure he was happy with the meat lovers pizza and the P'zones 
On that note however, if he does suggest that you change then you will likely have to. But first of all, what is most importent, more importent then talking on here is to establish that rappore and establish what you are both looking to walk away with. After all, everyone should be satisfied with a session.
To be honest, it's sad to here that since it seems half of the group enjoys your antics and the way you pay them back for it works. But on the same token the really importent people around the table don't like it, so you need to reach an acceptable comprimise. Perhaps stealing more sparingly, from less orcs or be a bit more subtle (so if there were 40 gold pieces between 18 orcs, you would swindle about 6 off of them and then share the rest. Something a little less obvious then stealing everything) or whatever you can agree on. Because clearly the gold you are getting over the rest of the party isn't worth the favours he bestows on them.
But in fact just someone who will do whatever means necessary to survive, and would bring flavor to the game. The example is that a bunch of bandits attack us at night, we kill all but one and we want information as to why we were attacked. obviously the 4 good people wouldnt resort to torture, but I would... Also for willingness to compromise I told him that should the occasion arise that my character does something stupid like combat looting, BUT gets caught, obviously theres a good chance I will be banned from the party.
Maybe if you had said this 5 pages ago you might have been listened to.
Oh and saying that you will only help people for money dosen't count, that's neutral.
1. If you really thought I was implying he was actually playing the thief you completely and utterly missed my point.
2. Well it wasn't a group loot, it was one character attempting to rip off the rest of the party. I can see how your DM might be biased.
3. The spidersilk shirt bit is creepy, I agree with your/csnick (if you aren't the same person) on this one.
4. So? If a player took an ability that lets her do well against orcs and the party never fought orcs, she should be pissed.
1.) Sorry, failed my /sarcasm roll... LOL
2.) Understandable to reduce the loot, but to .05%~ish of what it would have been?
3.) The Warrior and the Thief are brothers, I am roommates with them both. The DM and Ranger are married, and the Mage is a mutual friend of all.
4.) Not faulting her for the favored enemy, she had no prior knowledge of the campaign (we hope). But her back story provides reasons for that as well.
Maybe if you had said this 5 pages ago you might have been listened to.
Oh and saying that you will only help people for money dosen't count, that's neutral.
I believe he had said it somewhere on page 2 or 3... (gotta get back to work, otherwise I'd look...)
His alignment is Neutral/Evil...
1. If you really thought I was implying he was actually playing the thief you completely and utterly missed my point.
2. Well it wasn't a group loot, it was one character attempting to rip off the rest of the party. I can see how your DM might be biased.
3. The spidersilk shirt bit is creepy, I agree with your/csnick (if you aren't the same person) on this one.
4. So? If a player took an ability that lets her do well against orcs and the party never fought orcs, she should be pissed.
1.) Sorry, failed my /sarcasm roll... LOL
2.) Understandable to reduce the loot, but to .05%~ish of what it would have been?
3.) The Warrior and the Thief are brothers, I am roommates with them both. The DM and Ranger are married, and the Mage is a mutual friend of all.
4.) Not faulting her for the favored enemy, she had no prior knowledge of the campaign (we hope). But her back story provides reasons for that as well.
Maybe if you had said this 5 pages ago you might have been listened to.
Oh and saying that you will only help people for money dosen't count, that's neutral.
I believe he had said it somewhere on page 2 or 3... (gotta get back to work, otherwise I'd look...)
His alignment is Neutral/Evil...
1. Not what sarcasm is.
2. My point is that he dosen't want the thief to rip off the party, so he isn't giving him great rewards for it.
3. Don't get the relevance of this at all.
4. Fine by me, that's not how it sounded in the first post.
I don't believe he did say it, he said he's "not the raping kind", which tells us very little, and that he needs money to help people.
Neutral Evil?
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I don't believe he did say it, he said he's "not the raping kind", which tells us very little, and that he needs money to help people.
Neutral Evil?
He is apparently the torturing kind, which is another BIG RED FLAG for a lot of DMs.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I don't believe he did say it, he said he's "not the raping kind", which tells us very little, and that he needs money to help people.
Neutral Evil?
He is apparently the torturing kind, which is another BIG RED FLAG for a lot of DMs.
Agreed. That says a lot about the player.
3. Don't get the relevance of this at all.
People are jumping on the band wagon that I am the same person as the OP... Just trying to clarify the relationship of all party members involved/discussed.
obviously the 4 good people wouldnt resort to torture, but I would..
In which case I told him I'd probably roll a paladin (the worst kind to, the devout christian bigot! lol )
Intimidate, bluff, and diplomacy work for the first part. That's what those skills are there for.
For that second part? Sounds like you just want to be a disruption to the group. So you know what? The dm doesn't hate thieves. He dislikes you. He recognized what you would do off the bat, and is trying to deal with it in game instead of out. It's not the right move, because some people don't get the hint.
obviously the 4 good people wouldnt resort to torture, but I would..
In which case I told him I'd probably roll a paladin (the worst kind to, the devout christian bigot! lol )
Intimidate, bluff, and diplomacy work for the first part. That's what those skills are there for.
For that second part? Sounds like you just want to be a disruption to the group. So you know what? The dm doesn't hate thieves. He dislikes you. He recognized what you would do off the bat, and is trying to deal with it in game instead of out. It's not the right move, because some people don't get the hint.
To be honest I didn't really process that but you are completely right.
That said... I would not mind playing in a party with your character as described, though if I caught your character's 'side' looting with a basher-type character I'd probably grab your character and pin him til he apologized. Then all would be good. Catching you a second time would end less... pleasantly.
Your idea of a backup character might be fun to roleplay, (the bigot paladin) but is far more likely to cause inter-character conflict and reduce fun for the rest of your group, possibly ending your game entirely.
A more cooperative version of the paladin might try to display his alignment in acts of good, apprehend law-breakers, try to convert the other characters, heal the sick (at his own expense), and act virtuously without trying to impose his beliefs on others.
If you want his alignment to come up in party dynamics accept the surrender of an enemy or spare one that gets knocked unconcious in a battle. It might not be convenient for the other players, but explaining why your paladin does things like that IS a great chance not just for you to roleplay but for them too.
The alignment you are playing sounds a LOT more like CN than NE.
A keyword for CN might as well be 'selfish' and is probably the shade of grey that your thief actually represents. (When a CN character becomes pretty awesome is when they decide that the party, their 'friends', are part of the self. The character goes from snagging wealth for the individual to aquiring wealth for the party. Which sounds a bit like what you were describing when you mentioned that your character doesn't mind stealing a little from the party b/c he doesn't know them very well.)
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...
Easy solution. Stop being evil.
Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief. You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.
Everybody secretly wants more than their fair share. It's just a question of wether or not you take it, & how.....
The dm doesn't hate thieves. He dislikes you.
I agree.
(Mostly 'cause I said that earlier, of course.)
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...
Easy solution. Stop being evil.
Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief. You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.
Everybody secretly wants more than their fair share. It's just a question of wether or not you take it, & how.....
And that is the whole point of the (LG) Paladin who is not a jerk.
"I want more, but I will not take more then my share even if I can get away with it BECAUSE I said I would not."
And that is the whole point of the (LG) Paladin who is not a jerk.
"I want more, but I will not take more then my share even if I can get away with it BECAUSE I said I would not."
Or, ANY character who is not a jerk.
Yep... pretty much summarized that in my earlier replies.
EVERYTHING here has been said. csnick simply believes the DM is just being a d*** to him with no real cause.
Which is flat out wrong.
Then its not a matter of the DM hating the rogue class, the DM just hates that player at this point and it doesnt matter which class he plays.
Assuming your responding to the DMs "Oh well, there went that plan...." concerning killing the OPs character?
If so, it might not be as personal as you think.
For ex; I have a friend who plays two types of characters (regardless of race/class/alignment/rules set/genre/etc).
The first are the awesome characters that you want in games.
The second type? He'll intentionally make crap that he knows doesn't fit the game/group/story. Mechanics, concept, alignment, etc. Often times multiple such factors. You're tempted to reach across the table & punch him they're so *&%^ irritating.
He alternates these styles. If he's playing an awesome one? It's an established fact that the next one he rolls up - for whatever reason, whatever rules set, whatever setting - WILL BE an irrittating one. And vice-versa.
*He refuses to stop playing the irritating sort, even though he knows they piss off everyone else around the table (both in & out of character)
*At the same time? He's a good friend. So we aren't going to boot him out of the games.
And so, as a DM, I simply kill off his irritating characters ASAP....
As soon as I read your choice of alternate character (greedy thief to zealot paladin), I realized you enjoy playing the extremes. That's all well and good, so long as the group is willing and able to put up with it. That being said, based solely on what I have read here, your DM (and his wife it seems) is not willing and/or able to put up with it.
Many have said it already and I will throw my hat in with them: change your character personality (tone it down) or leave the group.
Here's a version of a speech I give all my players whenever I start a new campaign.
This is a cooperative game. The moment you start having fun at the expense of others' fun, you are a problem. The guy who plays a chaotic neutral (old edition) or evil character who attacks his teammate and claims "I'm just playing my alignment" is part of the problem. If you want to be a psychopath, that is fine. I have a universe full of monsters and npcs you can stab. When you stab another player, you are a problem. The thief who pickpockets from his friends, or finds treasure and conceals it from them because "I'm just playing my character as greedy" is not going to last long in my campaign. First of all, I have a universe full of npcs you can steal from. Leave your PC buddies alone. And when you steal stuff from npcs, share what you find, even if you're greedy. Otherwise, you're making a claim that your 'skill set' deserves more reward than theirs. You wouldn't want the party wizard to start billing the party for every spell he/she casts just because they are the only character who can cast spells and they wanted to be greedy too. Everybody's skill set deserves equal recognition and reward, because all the PCs are working together as a team. It can be a bloody dysfunctional team, but it has to be a team. Because this is a cooperative group game. If you have to abuse someone, abuse the npcs, because as the DM, I don't have any emotional investment in their success or failure. Don't pick personality quirks that are designed to get in the faces of your party members. I don't care if you are a drow, and you want to play up your racial hatred of elves. There's an elf in your party, and you will work with him. You can take extra fun in killing any npc elves you meet, but as Bender said: "Whenever I said 'kill all humans', I always whispered 'except one'. And he was the one."
So to the OP thief: my advice is to never steal from your party members. This includes getting to loot first and hiding it. If you pickpocket people in the street for fun, I'd find some way to share the wealth with your party. Maybe you use that money to buy healing potions for everybody. Include them in the benefits of your larceny. The moment you start believing that your character deserves more money than theirs, for any reason, you are getting your fun out of the game while diminishing theirs. At our table, reducing others' fun is the one and only cardinal sin. When your dm sees that you are no longer putting yourself above them, he may very well back off a little. However, also make sure you are not diminishing his fun either. Just because I don't mind my npcs getting abused doesn't mean he won't mind if he thinks you are taking advantage of him.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />This is a cooperative game. The moment you start having fun at the expense of others' fun, you are a problem. The guy who plays a chaotic neutral (old edition) or evil character who attacks his teammate and claims "I'm just playing my alignment" is part of the problem. If you want to be a psychopath, that is fine. I have a universe full of monsters and npcs you can stab. When you stab another player, you are a problem. The thief who pickpockets from his friends, or finds treasure and conceals it from them because "I'm just playing my character as greedy" is not going to last long in my campaign. First of all, I have a universe full of npcs you can steal from. Leave your PC buddies alone. And when you steal stuff from npcs, share what you find, even if you're greedy. Otherwise, you're making a claim that your 'skill set' deserves more reward than theirs. You wouldn't want the party wizard to start billing the party for every spell he/she casts just because they are the only character who can cast spells and they wanted to be greedy too. Everybody's skill set deserves equal recognition and reward, because all the PCs are working together as a team. It can be a bloody dysfunctional team, but it has to be a team. Because this is a cooperative group game. If you have to abuse someone, abuse the npcs, because as the DM, I don't have any emotional investment in their success or failure. Don't pick personality quirks that are designed to get in the faces of your party members. I don't care if you are a drow, and you want to play up your racial hatred of elves. There's an elf in your party, and you will work with him. You can take extra fun in killing any npc elves you meet, but as Bender said: "Whenever I said 'kill all humans', I always whispered 'except one'. And he was the one."
*raucous applause*
And thats the challenge and the fun part of it for me. =D How do I do evil things without getting caught.
This right here is why you would have trouble at my game table. I have no problem with evil characters, or evil taking place in my campaign. However, the player I would have no problems with is the one that "wants to do evil things without getting caught... by any npcs, monsters, or other legal authorities that exist in my game world."
Trying to outsmart the DM and think one step ahead of him is a good activity for any player to take fun out of. Word to the wise: it gets even more fun if your other players are acting in cooperation with you. Fun shared is multiplied, not additive.
However, you are trying not to get caught by the other players. Part of what brings you fun is outsmarting and outplaying them. This doesn't increase everybody's fun, it just increases yours (which isn't a problem) while decreasing theirs (which is).
In short, if you take pleasure in being smarter, better, more evil, more rich, or even taller than your fellow players, then D&D should not be the game for you. If your favorite thing is not getting caught by the other players, my advice is to go play a video game where you can be the protagonist and the world really does revolve around you. If, however, you're just trying to get away with stuff without getting caught by the npcs, monsters, and legal authorities of your game world, then good luck.
I haven't read every post in this thread, so I apologize if somebody has already said this.
Here's a version of a speech I give all my players whenever I start a new campaign.
This is a cooperative game. The moment you start having fun at the expense of others' fun, you are a problem. The guy who plays a chaotic neutral (old edition) or evil character who attacks his teammate and claims "I'm just playing my alignment" is part of the problem. If you want to be a psychopath, that is fine. I have a universe full of monsters and npcs you can stab. When you stab another player, you are a problem. The thief who pickpockets from his friends, or finds treasure and conceals it from them because "I'm just playing my character as greedy" is not going to last long in my campaign. First of all, I have a universe full of npcs you can steal from. Leave your PC buddies alone. And when you steal stuff from npcs, share what you find, even if you're greedy. Otherwise, you're making a claim that your 'skill set' deserves more reward than theirs. You wouldn't want the party wizard to start billing the party for every spell he/she casts just because they are the only character who can cast spells and they wanted to be greedy too. Everybody's skill set deserves equal recognition and reward, because all the PCs are working together as a team. It can be a bloody dysfunctional team, but it has to be a team. Because this is a cooperative group game. If you have to abuse someone, abuse the npcs, because as the DM, I don't have any emotional investment in their success or failure. Don't pick personality quirks that are designed to get in the faces of your party members. I don't care if you are a drow, and you want to play up your racial hatred of elves. There's an elf in your party, and you will work with him. You can take extra fun in killing any npc elves you meet, but as Bender said: "Whenever I said 'kill all humans', I always whispered 'except one'. And he was the one."
So to the OP thief: my advice is to never steal from your party members. This includes getting to loot first and hiding it. If you pickpocket people in the street for fun, I'd find some way to share the wealth with your party. Maybe you use that money to buy healing potions for everybody. Include them in the benefits of your larceny. The moment you start believing that your character deserves more money than theirs, for any reason, you are getting your fun out of the game while diminishing theirs. At our table, reducing others' fun is the one and only cardinal sin. When your dm sees that you are no longer putting yourself above them, he may very well back off a little. However, also make sure you are not diminishing his fun either. Just because I don't mind my npcs getting abused doesn't mean he won't mind if he thinks you are taking advantage of him.
I concur with Salla - ***STANDING OVATION***
Thank you MeCorva for being reasonable. When we first started this campaign the DM told me that he didnt expect anyone to play a thief, or anyone of an evil alignment.
I believe I have found your problem, OP....
The DM said he didn't want anyone to play a thief. You then took it upon yourself to play a thief. No wonder there is friction here.
Just the fact that you went above and beyond to convince the DM to let you play a thief when he clearly didn't want one in the party (probably for this very reason) is quite telling.
If you choose to play an evil char you shouldn't be penalized for it, you're just roleplaying well.
And when the rest of the party catches you and kills you or throws you out, causing you to no longer be a viable PC, that's not a "penalty" and they're just roleplaying well the kind of reactions they should have to discovering a traitor in the group.
Put another way: You've created a character who is making the game worse for the other players, and the GM is attempting to discourage you from making yourself unplayable rather than requiring the other players to kick you out. If you keep going, they can, and should.
If you choose to play an evil char you shouldn't be penalized for it, you're just roleplaying well.
And when the rest of the party catches you and kills you or throws you out, causing you to no longer be a viable PC, that's not a "penalty" and they're just roleplaying well the kind of reactions they should have to discovering a traitor in the group.
That's always been my favorite part. "I'm just roleplaying my character" as an excuse for being a complete douche and screwing up the game, then that person invariably turns into a pouty (female dog) and protests when the rest of the players say "So are we," and they have to suffer the consequences of being a douche.
Hypocrisy. Gotta love it.
First off, just because you have the ability to steal things and you want to play a character that steals from people doesn't mean that the other players or the DM are expected to allow you to do it without restriction. Everyone in the group has the ability to creep around killing people in their sleep. There are specific rules in each edition for it, but the mere existence of a tool doesn't justify its use.
Here's the thing about 2nd. Edition: it doesn't presume to justify your character's inclusion in the adventuring group. It doesn't presume to excuse behavior by giving you the ability to do a thing; it gives you a set of tools that are more or less appropriate to a character archetype, and then leaves you to decide what to do with them. Those tools might not ever be needed in the course of a campaign - again, they gave them to you because that's what they imagined a person like you would be able to do, if the need arose.
Your character has, as a function of its character class, the ability to steal from people. You can use that to the benefit of the party if the need arises. You can also use it to the detriment of the party, by stealing from your party members after the treasure is divided so you get more than your share, or by looting the bodies before the treasure is counted so you get more than your share. Answer me this, though: what makes your stealing from people ability any different from the wizard's fry people to death with bat crap and explosive gibberish ability? If you're going to use yours on them, what's stopping them using theirs on you?
It's up to you to justify your character's inclusion in the group. The heroes don't have to tolerate a villain in their midst just because you made one and brought it to the table. Yes, it might be in character for the person you created to steal from his own allies. It's in their character to slaughter people like your character. Why, then, is he traveling with them? Why would they put up with him? You've already said yourself that the wizard can open locks. What do they need your character for that's so important it compels them to excuse his behavior?
You're stealing from powerful, violent people who have shown very little tolerance for that sort of thing. You tell me how that's supposed to end.
To be honest, most of the pickpocketing I've done in any edition of the game has resulted in very little money. Someone else commented on this and I agree, don't walk around trying to pickpocket every 5 minutes of playing time. Spend more time gathering info and other group-benefiting stuff that thieves and bards are good at, and you can get hefty XP for doing stuff that helps the party loot bigger monsters. (The DMG has a table for individual XP awards by class. Mages for spellcasting, thieves for gp stolen, etc. Look at other stuff you can do to get xp.)
However, you shouldn't be getting hosed on XP just because other PC's are of slower-advancing classes. One of the real benefits of being of the Rogue group (Bards and thieves) in 2nd edition is fast advancement.
Perhaps the DM and you can sit down once in a while and do a little 1-on-1 burglary-type adventuring, like the 2nd edition Thief's Challenge modules? (He might do the same with the fighters, wizards, etc. some other time.)
The DM's concern that you might be playing 'evil', or close to it, is something that you and he should serious talk about. I have played in a group with a DM who basically wanted everyone to be lawful-good or close to it. He disallowed doing things that a chaotic should be able to do, like pulling a fast one on an enemy who wanted you dead. He was practically scripting PC actions. He never came right out and said it, but after a while we all figured out he pretty much wanted a party of Fighters, Paladins and lawful-good clerics. It got really annoying. The accual campaign he had put together was basically worth putting up with the shortcomings.
Bottom line, you joined an existing group and need to figure out the dynamics of the group and style of play. This group and DM may not be one that you fit with well, just because of different styles of play. They might be more of a villain-hunters-style, or combat oriented, or whatever, and you might be more stealth-and-pilfering type. They don't always fit together.
Generally speaking, few will mind a discrepancy of 50GP or so from the overall treasury, but taking much more that that is a good way to end up with an angry party. Steal from others, not your friends.
How would you feel if one of your friends pick-pocketed the cash your wallet, then offered to buy you dinner from your money?
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