Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Chaos_Redefined Sep 22, 2009 0:40:35	In game, our party is on the run.  We split up (not necessarily the best move, but beside the point).  I grab some homeless looking clothes and hide myself in a pile of garbage.  I set up some boxes and what not, and set it up so I should be able to figure out if someone sees me.  I start trancing (I'm a drow), and near the end of my rest, I hear one of the locals come along with a set of guards saying something along the lines of "Yeah, he's in there.  He came into my inn and i turned him down, so he started sleeping over there." Apparently, I had my leg sticking out a box.  No roll or anything, it just is. So, presented with the sound of guards and no way to quickly escape, I rub some dirt on my face to disguise myself, and hope for the best. At this stage, the DM in question has a tendency to hand control of NPCs to the players who aren't currently involved.  One of them asks if the guard he has control of is the brother of one I previously killed.  Dice are rolled, and yes.  So, the first thing his friend does is wipe the dirt off my face and say "Hey, is this the guy who killed your brother?".  At which point the DM does nothing.  Stuff happens, and I get sent to prison. Around the same time, an ally of the party has been placed under suspicion, and lots of guards have been placed in the area.  Two of the players manage to get in, and confront some guards.  One of them is a changeling, while the other has armor which can disguise itself to look like, say, the armor of the guards.  The DM has ruled that the changeling disguise is only minor changes, and if someone is looking specifically for you, you will be recognizable.  They both manage to have nice long conversations with guards who should be looking for them. The next day, I talk to the DM.  At first, he gets really defensive, saying that the player-controlled NPC was completely in line, and in no way was that metagaming. 5 days later, I talk to him and he is a bit more reasonable.  He says that it is possible that the guards are looking specifically for me, since I have killed off more guards than the rest of the party.  Anyone who looks anything like me would be questioned.  This apparently has not caused riots, because the general populace is pissed off at me for attacking the world noble's place.  (I'm hiding in the peasant quarters, so the peasants are also pissed off at me?)  And of course I might do something stupid like hide myself in boxes and garbage and what not, and then leave my leg out.  In the meantime, the guards haven't given bounty posters to the people keeping surveillance over our ally.  They just sent guys over there. I can sort of cope with this, as long as it doesn't happen again.  But then I also have the other players who haven't realized what's going on, and I'm treated as a joke because of it.  I've spoken with two of the other three players, and one of them is still treating me as a joke because of it.  (The other one is the one who only changed his armor.  I haven't spoken to the changeling)  I get the feeling he wouldn't change his attitude. So, am I reading into things too much?  Am I overreacting?  Am I being oversensitive?  What do I do? tl; dr: DM is picking on me, other players are treating me poorly because of it.  What do I do?
#2 Azuridin_the_aged Sep 22, 2009 0:53:56	as a DM myself i have enver ever been a fan of passing out NPC control or any control for that matter to my players. (unless of course its players themselves from an alternate dimension fighting one another. Thats always a fun ride. Tell each player their their own PC and the enemy and they have to play both. Watch the fun ensue) Anyways more to the point, The Alpha male syndrome will always jiggle to the front if fore knowledge is accepted. As far as dealing with it. You've already talked to the DM and he seems reasonable enough and has discussed a few things with you. I'd sit down with the other players and talk to them as well, then next time yall play and sit down before the game ask a few momments and let them all know you understand it's just a game but you don't take kindly to being the brunt of the jokes. Most sensible people might raz ya abit but will let it slide. If it doesn't, then unfortunatly all i can say is move on and find another playing group. Unfortunatly i had an occurance like this myself once where i had recently split with my significant other for cheating. The DM of our group made a mention that my in game partner was flirting heavily and hitting on other npcs when i wasnt around. I brought it to fact that it hit a little too close to home and made me quite uncomfortable. The joke stopped there. If they are your friends, or at the very least gaming partners theyll take the message and back off. If not, theres not much you can do to change someones personality.
#3 CCS Sep 22, 2009 13:27:34	OK, disregarding the non-relevant portions of your tale, it boils down to this: So a drow goes into an inn, is turned away for whatever reason, & is noticed heading into the nearby ally (aka: a succesfull spot check by the NPC that you aren't entitled to know anything about).  Some (short?) time later a group of pissed off guards come through the area searching for a drow who's caused trouble & killed a fair number of their fellows. Whereupon the inn keeper mentions that he turned a drow away a bit ago & saw him head into that ally over there. Investigating, the guards find a dirt smeared drow (likely in full adventuring gear/weapons/armour) "hiding" beneath garbage & cardboard boxes.... Hmmm. So essentially you just came up with an escape plan that wasn't good enough.  Hows that equel the DM picking on you??? And after coming up with such a basic & lame plan of hide/disguise are you surprised that you're getteing crap from the other players?  Afterall, if they'd done something like this, could you tell honestly tell me you wouldn't tease them about it?   What it sounds like to me is that your game suffers more from lack of good description than malice.
#4 makrothumeo Sep 22, 2009 14:09:00	OK, disregarding the non-relevant portions of your tale, it boils down to this: So a drow goes into an inn, is turned away for whatever reason, & is noticed heading into the nearby ally (aka: a succesfull spot check by the NPC that you aren't entitled to know anything about).  Some (short?) time later a group of pissed off guards come through the area searching for a drow who's caused trouble & killed a fair number of their fellows. Whereupon the inn keeper mentions that he turned a drow away a bit ago & saw him head into that ally over there. Investigating, the guards find a dirt smeared drow (likely in full adventuring gear/weapons/armour) "hiding" beneath garbage & cardboard boxes.... Hmmm. So essentially you just came up with an escape plan that wasn't good enough.  Hows that equel the DM picking on you??? And after coming up with such a basic & lame plan of hide/disguise are you surprised that you're getteing crap from the other players?  Afterall, if they'd done something like this, could you tell honestly tell me you wouldn't tease them about it?   What it sounds like to me is that your game suffers more from lack of good description than malice.    I would agree--this all sounds like more of a funny story you might tell later on than something to get upset about...You said yourself, your party is on the run, one of the hazards of being on the run  is occasionally you get caught...no big deal.
#5 Azuridin_the_aged Sep 22, 2009 15:41:27	I would aggree with you two except for the most important part of his post. Mainly being the DM wasnt playing the guards but rather handed it off to two other players to roleplay out the guards. I think this is mainly what is bothering him. Had the DM personally played out the NPC guards then there would of been some amount of argument behind his plan of hiding failing. But with the players playing off the guards it kind of does seem as if hes being singled out. Beyond such, had there been a succesful spot check behind closed screens (which i strongly believe in dms hiding their rolls) then im sure it would of been mentioned to the two pcs playing the npc guards. At which point when he had originially commented on being singled out they would of (at least common sense dictates) stepped up and said that the roll was made or some such detail to prove he wasnt being picked on. Now if a roll was made and the players were never told about it, then again you've got meta-gaming problems because the players would know he was there but not the pcs or the pcs knowing about the npcs knowing with a succesful check. IMHO it boils down to a poor decision on the DM's part with who played out the guards and passing them off to the players.
#6 makrothumeo Sep 22, 2009 17:03:48	Well, at the end of the day I don't see the damage...if you're going to play in a campaign with other people, you're going to have ups and downs...enjoy the ups, deal with the downs, and if you don't like the way your DM runs NPCs (I would never let a PC run an NPC that was supposed to be independent, but I'm not telling anybody else how to do it) find a new DM.  But seriously, so far all I see is a series of events that totally could have happened regardless of the way the DM handled the NPCs, so get over it, and pretty soon something will happen to somebody else and you can have a laugh at their expense and your little escapade will be forgotten.
#7 Chaos_Redefined Sep 22, 2009 18:35:24	It's not so much the NPC's actions.  Although I have indicated I am unhappy with those circumstances, as long as the DM cuts it out, I'm ok to let it be.  I personally believe that they shouldn't have happened, or at least, in the case of my leg sticking out, there should have been a stealth check, and for the guard, a bluff check.  Or something like that.  But. what's done is done. My complaint is more that, it's been several weeks and I'm still being laughed at by the other players, and in my opinion, I think it is excessive.  I have voiced concern to two of the players, one of whom has stopped and one who has continued anyway.
#8 october_darkness Sep 22, 2009 18:43:02	One of my characters got knocked out, and urinated on by an NPC. My friends never let me down for that one, and it took a while for them to forget about it. Edit: This was back in high school.
#9 Chaos_Redefined Sep 22, 2009 18:57:49	OK, disregarding the non-relevant portions of your tale, it boils down to this: So a drow goes into an inn, is turned away for whatever reason, & is noticed heading into the nearby ally (aka: a succesfull spot check by the NPC that you aren't entitled to know anything about).  Some (short?) time later a group of pissed off guards come through the area searching for a drow who's caused trouble & killed a fair number of their fellows. Whereupon the inn keeper mentions that he turned a drow away a bit ago & saw him head into that ally over there. Investigating, the guards find a dirt smeared drow (likely in full adventuring gear/weapons/armour) "hiding" beneath garbage & cardboard boxes.... Hmmm. So essentially you just came up with an escape plan that wasn't good enough.  Hows that equel the DM picking on you??? And after coming up with such a basic & lame plan of hide/disguise are you surprised that you're getteing crap from the other players?  Afterall, if they'd done something like this, could you tell honestly tell me you wouldn't tease them about it?   What it sounds like to me is that your game suffers more from lack of good description than malice. I would aggree with you two except for the most important part of his post. Mainly being the DM wasnt playing the guards but rather handed it off to two other players to roleplay out the guards. I think this is mainly what is bothering him. Had the DM personally played out the NPC guards then there would of been some amount of argument behind his plan of hiding failing. But with the players playing off the guards it kind of does seem as if hes being singled out. Beyond such, had there been a succesful spot check behind closed screens (which i strongly believe in dms hiding their rolls) then im sure it would of been mentioned to the two pcs playing the npc guards. At which point when he had originially commented on being singled out they would of (at least common sense dictates) stepped up and said that the roll was made or some such detail to prove he wasnt being picked on. Now if a roll was made and the players were never told about it, then again you've got meta-gaming problems because the players would know he was there but not the pcs or the pcs knowing about the npcs knowing with a succesful check. IMHO it boils down to a poor decision on the DM's part with who played out the guards and passing them off to the players. Just to clarify, I will point out that the boxes and what not were in an area outside of the inn.  The innkeeper went over to the garbage for an unrelated purpose and noticed general relocation of some of the garbage (ok...  i will concede that point.)   He went looking around and found me. When I point out that I should have seen him, giving me a chance to leave, he said that I had my leg sticking out.  There was no roll.  If he had have presented your argument, I would have been ok with that.  There is also the point that Azuridin made, that the second part felt like metagaming, since it was clear that there was no roll to recognize me, and as a result, it felt heavily like metagaming. In addition to that, as I said, there was a plan from the other players I pointed out, which I can't see how it worked.  A PC walked up to the guards from the same outpost of guards (not the same guards), with only a change in clothes.  He was not recognized.  Apparently, this particular guard, who was keeping an eye out specifically for us, had no idea what we looked like.  After that, a changeling PC walked up to another guard, similar thing happened, but the ally I mentioned recognized us.  The picking-on-me thing is more a combination of the poor excuses I was given for what happened to me, and the poor excuses I was given for why similar did not happen to the rest of the party. However, my complaint is more that after several sessions, I'm still being laughed at.  Admittedly, one of those sessions was about busting me out of jail, but I still feel it is excessive.  And it should have been likely that at least one of them was captured as a result of a poor plan.
#10 dargossen Sep 22, 2009 21:14:36	One thing that stands out to me is that you're a drow.  Are drow common in this part of the world?  If they're not, you're going to stick out like a sore thumb no matter how homeless you made yourself look.  That rational should have been presented at the time. Dumb things happen to people in game.  We make mistakes and do things that cause others to laugh at us.  Sometimes the best thing to do is laugh along - it defuses the "This is getting to him" element that will sometimes keep a joke going FAR longer than it should. Case in point: "I shoot the puddle!" - Old old old game I played in junior high, based on a book where everyone had magic except the very rare people.  A puddle formed under a door as I attempted to open it.  The DM was known to be very devious about everything, so I fried the puddle in case something was in it.  Through high school, I was mocked.  Until I started using it as a slogan no matter what my character was.  When I was in on it, a lot of people lost their desire to throw it at me. Since you've already talked to two of the players about it, you need to either roll with it or stop reacting to it.  It will go away if they stop getting the reaction they want.
#11 CCS Sep 22, 2009 23:06:02	My complaint is more that, it's been several weeks and I'm still being laughed at by the other players, and in my opinion, I think it is excessive.  I have voiced concern to two of the players, one of whom has stopped and one who has continued anyway.   Well then, I guess it's time for you to grow a thicker skin.  Because if your groups anything like the ones I've played in?  Then they'll keep laughing about this for a looong time (as in decades) - wether you like it or not.
#12 fighterpilotkev Sep 22, 2009 23:32:05	I agree with the suggestion of rolling with the punches. However, I am not a fan of DM's finding ways to outright humiliate the PCs, such as being pissed on by an NPC, or in my case, being strung up naked in town square for saying something meant to be OOC without specifying that it was OOC. But sometimes that alpha male thing kicks in and the DM treats your PC like crap. Why not just roll with it? Its always so much more satisfying to take someone's insults and use it as a badge of honor. America did it! Yankee Doodle Dandy was a song meant to demoralize us, and look how that turned out. (Silly Brits.) So...I guess what I'm saying is consider yourself the proud player of the TOWN'S DEADLIEST HOBO, or the HOMELESS HASHSHASHIN. Terrifying, isn't it? No? Well, at least its hilarious. And that's my two cents.
#13 Chaos_Redefined Sep 22, 2009 23:56:42	Thanks for the advice everyone.  I'll try rolling with the punches.