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DM thinks my character is overpowered

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
daerien
Feb 07, 2011 16:57:36 Well, that's all I've been hearing lately, anyways.

I play an Elf Pursuit Avenger using a Fullblade with the standard weapon feats. Like most Avengers, he has a good AC (28 at level 11, tied with the Warden) thanks to two AC-boosting feats, Unarmored Agility and Improved Armor of Faith. This is a sore spot for the DM in particular.

The other person in the group who agrees is a Dark Pact Charisma Warlock. She's generally unsatisfied with her character's damage output, which is slightly below mine, and her AC is several points lower (she started with a 20 Cha). Most of her feats are utility/fluff, and I've offered to help her improve her damage but she doesn't want to change much and I definitely don't want her to feel like I'm dictating her character for her. She's also the DM's girlfriend and otherwise a nice person, so I don't want to be confrontational about it.

My Avenger's no slouch, but his damage output thus far has been decidedly middle of the pack, and I'm okay with that, because I get to play offtank and chase down artillery in the back, and it's a blast. But lately, I've been hearing more and more complaints about how he's overpowered.

I've been playing him for a year and a half; he's my first and my favorite character, and it really sucks to hear my friends call him overpowered.

Should I weaken him so the Warlock can stay competitive?
#2
tiornys
Feb 07, 2011 20:38:07 There's no easy answer here. It sounds like your Avenger is at a different optimization level than the Warlock, but it's less clear whether that holds for the rest of the party. If the rest of the party is at a low optimization level, and your character is at a moderate to high optimization level, then it might be worth it to combat-weaken your character (gaining utility/skills), especially if you can still have fun playing the character. However if the rest of the party is at about your level of optimization, and the only reason you're being called overpowered is because of the comparison to the Warlock, then you should point out the double standard.

In any case, you're certainly not overpowered by an objective measure. You can visit CharOp to find examples of an optimized Pursuit Avenger, and then compare to an optimized melee Ranger. Pointing these out to your DM might help (but then again, it might not).

t~
#3
LordOfWeasels
Feb 07, 2011 22:10:02
Should I weaken him so the Warlock can stay competitive?

No. But if you can't sit down over coffee and bagels and talk, outside the game session, with the warlock about why she feels you're outclassing her and what *she* thinks should be changed? There's a problem.

That doesn't mean she's RIGHT, or wrong. That just means you sit down with her and talk about what she objects to. Frankly, Avengers are super-accurate okay-damage Strikers, and Warlocks are okay-accurate okay-damage Striker/Controllers - so if she expects to be Queen of Blastomancy against an Avenger, she's likely to fail, and that's intended because Warlocks do tons of Control while Avengers are all "Imma hit you again? two timez? LOL!"

Anyway. Start with your fellow PC, talk, and see what the complaint is. Then talk to the GM, and see what the NEXT complaint is. If you can't talk to your fellow players, you're ****ed no matter what, so talk to them and see what you can get done first.
#4
Neutronium_Dragon
Feb 07, 2011 22:15:59 It's also worth pointing out that avengers are expected to have strong AC (and reasonably strong defenses and durability) by design, since their usual approach is to single out one enemy, pull it off by itself, and then have a semi-private duel - meaning that they don't get as much support from other PCs, and the enemy is usually focusing all of its attention on THEM rather than (say) the party defender.
#5
Storyteller-Zero
Feb 07, 2011 22:47:38 The DM can also mix up combat encounters so that there are enemies that are more suited to an Avenger or enemies that are more suited to a Warlock or both.

What are the trained skills of your characters? Is the DM giving all the PCs opportunities to use their skills? With high Charisma, the warlock could be getting chances to shine in social situations.

DnD is more than just combat and there's plenty of ways to make combat satisfying for the whole party.

What kind of campaign is being run? What are the sessions like?

Different classes will shine more in different adventure setups.

If there is anyone unsatisfied with his/her character's ability to contribute, then the DM should take a look at the party and try to come up with ways to give everyone spotlight happiness without hurting anyone's fun. The boards here are filled with helpful advisers for this sort of thing.

#6
Pashalik_Mons
Feb 08, 2011 4:35:31 A. Avengers are not Overpowered, even when well optimized. I mean, they're good, but it's not game-breaking good.

B. If the warlock's player is not satisfied with her damage output, she has options to improve it. If she chooses not to take those options, she has no right to complain.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd be a dick and tell the group to man up and stop being ****. I mean, like you said, his damage is middle of the pack. His AC is good, because defender is a secondary role for Avengers, and you burned multiple feats to make it better.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 daerien Feb 07, 2011 16:57:36	Well, that's all I've been hearing lately, anyways. I play an Elf Pursuit Avenger using a Fullblade with the standard weapon feats. Like most Avengers, he has a good AC (28 at level 11, tied with the Warden) thanks to two AC-boosting feats, Unarmored Agility and Improved Armor of Faith. This is a sore spot for the DM in particular. The other person in the group who agrees is a Dark Pact Charisma Warlock. She's generally unsatisfied with her character's damage output, which is slightly below mine, and her AC is several points lower (she started with a 20 Cha). Most of her feats are utility/fluff, and I've offered to help her improve her damage but she doesn't want to change much and I definitely don't want her to feel like I'm dictating her character for her. She's also the DM's girlfriend and otherwise a nice person, so I don't want to be confrontational about it. My Avenger's no slouch, but his damage output thus far has been decidedly middle of the pack, and I'm okay with that, because I get to play offtank and chase down artillery in the back, and it's a blast. But lately, I've been hearing more and more complaints about how he's overpowered. I've been playing him for a year and a half; he's my first and my favorite character, and it really sucks to hear my friends call him overpowered. Should I weaken him so the Warlock can stay competitive?
#2 tiornys Feb 07, 2011 20:38:07	There's no easy answer here. It sounds like your Avenger is at a different optimization level than the Warlock, but it's less clear whether that holds for the rest of the party. If the rest of the party is at a low optimization level, and your character is at a moderate to high optimization level, then it might be worth it to combat-weaken your character (gaining utility/skills), especially if you can still have fun playing the character. However if the rest of the party is at about your level of optimization, and the only reason you're being called overpowered is because of the comparison to the Warlock, then you should point out the double standard. In any case, you're certainly not overpowered by an objective measure. You can visit CharOp to find examples of an optimized Pursuit Avenger, and then compare to an optimized melee Ranger. Pointing these out to your DM might help (but then again, it might not). t~
#3 LordOfWeasels Feb 07, 2011 22:10:02	Should I weaken him so the Warlock can stay competitive? No. But if you can't sit down over coffee and bagels and talk, outside the game session, with the warlock about why she feels you're outclassing her and what she thinks should be changed? There's a problem. That doesn't mean she's RIGHT, or wrong. That just means you sit down with her and talk about what she objects to. Frankly, Avengers are super-accurate okay-damage Strikers, and Warlocks are okay-accurate okay-damage Striker/Controllers - so if she expects to be Queen of Blastomancy against an Avenger, she's likely to fail, and that's intended because Warlocks do tons of Control while Avengers are all "Imma hit you again? two timez? LOL!" Anyway. Start with your fellow PC, talk, and see what the complaint is. Then talk to the GM, and see what the NEXT complaint is. If you can't talk to your fellow players, you're ****ed no matter what, so talk to them and see what you can get done first.
#4 Neutronium_Dragon Feb 07, 2011 22:15:59	It's also worth pointing out that avengers are expected to have strong AC (and reasonably strong defenses and durability) by design, since their usual approach is to single out one enemy, pull it off by itself, and then have a semi-private duel - meaning that they don't get as much support from other PCs, and the enemy is usually focusing all of its attention on THEM rather than (say) the party defender.
#5 Storyteller-Zero Feb 07, 2011 22:47:38	The DM can also mix up combat encounters so that there are enemies that are more suited to an Avenger or enemies that are more suited to a Warlock or both. What are the trained skills of your characters? Is the DM giving all the PCs opportunities to use their skills? With high Charisma, the warlock could be getting chances to shine in social situations. DnD is more than just combat and there's plenty of ways to make combat satisfying for the whole party. What kind of campaign is being run? What are the sessions like? Different classes will shine more in different adventure setups. If there is anyone unsatisfied with his/her character's ability to contribute, then the DM should take a look at the party and try to come up with ways to give everyone spotlight happiness without hurting anyone's fun. The boards here are filled with helpful advisers for this sort of thing.
#6 Pashalik_Mons Feb 08, 2011 4:35:31	A. Avengers are not Overpowered, even when well optimized. I mean, they're good, but it's not game-breaking good. B. If the warlock's player is not satisfied with her damage output, she has options to improve it. If she chooses not to take those options, she has no right to complain. Honestly, if I were you, I'd be a dick and tell the group to man up and stop being ****. I mean, like you said, his damage is middle of the pack. His AC is good, because defender is a secondary role for Avengers, and you burned multiple feats to make it better.