DM/Playstyle issues - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

DM/Playstyle issues

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rogue9851
Jun 24, 2008 13:42:18 Hey, folks:

So, I've been involved in a game with a few friends for nigh on a year and a half.

We've got five players: My best friend, who generally leans towards evil as much as possible. He played a LN Paladin variant that tortured and killed prisoners, and is currently playing a Minotaur Barbarian. He's gotten bored, though, and has generated a Warlock to dominate the cow and make him his *****. Wants to roleplay more, since we basically move from place to place killing things.

Me! I generally play Good characters(okay, always.) I've gone through several characters as well, generally bringing up a new iteration when the group decides to change. We're ADD like that. I'm currently playing a VoP Monk, after playing a LG Paladin. I'm seriously debating bringing back the Paladin; he was a ton of fun. My biggest flaw is that I am an insufferable rules lawyer, though I generally do so quietly after the session. I really, really want to roleplay more in-character, even though my character tends to disagree with several of the party members.

The Fatbeard: Thinks 2e was better, constantly pushes for houserules to make 3.5 more like his beloved incarnation. Plays a Rogue/Wizard that carries round probably 50 scrolls/potions and does very little other than throw fireballs and other spells. Prefers we do all roleplaying on web forums, so we can save session time for dice rolling.

My girlfriend: Half Copper Dragon Cleric: She's new to the game, but otherwise pretty good. Not saying this because I'm biased: If she knew more what she was doing, she'd be awesome to play with. Doesn't have any particular opinion on roleplaying, but is tired of doing exactly what the DM has planned.

The Fatbeard(2): Also has a fondness for 2e. Plays a MoMF. He's only been with us for a few weeks, and I haven't a huge opinion about him. I don't think he's much into RP.

The DM: Okay, so this is probably where my problem lies the most: He's taken us through not one, but three pregenned adventures. We've met all of one interesting NPC, and generally spend no time learning about the world we're in. We go from place to place, killing this or killing that. How do I convince him that there's more to the game than blowing things up and beating people to death?

...also, does anyone have a handy link to an explanation of the alignment system I can show him to demonstrate that Good characters are generally disallowed from slaughtering unarmed prisoners and the like? If I'm wrong there, tell me.

Thanks, folks! I've never posted and not gotten good responses. Keep it up!

-Rogue9851
#2
josheva
Jun 24, 2008 13:53:33 I would suggest that you take over DMing your game. In my experience, DMs who use pregenned adventures do so because they do not have the time, creativity, resources, or ambition to create their own detailed world and campaign. It sounds as if you have the creativity to do so, so step up to the plate.

In response to the alignment question, you may simply look up the alignments in the players' handbook. However, you will find nothing there saying that good people are disallowed from performing evil acts. The reason for this is that your alignment does not determine how you act. Rather, how you act determines your alignment. Having "Lawful Good" written in as your alignment does not stop you from torturing an orphan baby while drowning his pet puppy. However, if you do things like that then "Lawful Good" should not be recorded as your alignment because you are not roleplaying it. In situations where good guys turn bad, alignments can change.

The alignment thing takes some common sense, which in this world is alarmingly uncommon.
#3
rogue9851
Jun 24, 2008 15:00:10 Whoops.

As far as alignment goes, I meant for things that are alignment-dependent, like VoP or Paladinhood.

I really want to run a game, but I enjoy playing too much, and don't have the time to play more than I already do. Thanks, though!
#4
thepanther
Jun 24, 2008 18:03:16 Well, if you are not the only one who is unhappy about the playstyle of your DM, then maybe you should let him know, straight and honest, that you will prefer to have a different play experience.

It is also likely that your DM doesnt have the time, inclination or imagination to run a RP-heavy campaign, and pregenned combat-focused adventures are a lot easier to run. Don't blame him for that - you yourself have admitted that you'd rather not spend the time/energy to run a game.

On the last question, that's exactly why alignment-specific restrictions went the way of the dodo with 4th edition
Alignment was never meant to be a straightjacket. Now it's no longer.

And do you really want rules to tell you that murdering unarmed prisoners is not a very good thing? You got the Book of Exalted Deeds i presume, it should have plenty of rules on that kind of stuff
#5
themocaw
Jun 24, 2008 18:13:10
I would suggest that you take over DMing your game. In my experience, DMs who use pregenned adventures do so because they do not have the time, creativity, resources, or ambition to create their own detailed world and campaign.

I take issue with that, not because it's untrue, but because you imply that it somehow explains the DM's flaws. The DM is a boring DM not becuase he uses pregenned adventures. He's a boring DM because he's a boring DM who runs the pregen as walk here, kill this. It's very possible to run pregenned adventures in an exciting and interesting fashion.
#6
raynard_the_black
Jun 25, 2008 12:51:26 To me, it sounds like you're stuck.

You don't care for the current DM's playstyle, yet you have decided you won't walk the talk to show him how you feel it should be done.

I think you should either take over DMing for a while and "show them how it's done" or be quiet and enjoy the fact that you have someone willing to DM for you.
#7
aaror
Jun 27, 2008 7:00:52 OK, time for me to be bad...
In times like these, a paladin can no longer serve the laws, but must turn towards the cause of good in any way he can. It is time to take up the mantle of the holy liberator!
As such, you must choose not to follow the rules of your lawful neutral DM, and act as you know you must. If you meet an NPC, talk to them. If one tries to hire you, ask his motives, distrust them, ask to talk to others in town to discover if your patron is lying.
Try to talk to the monsters, seek to understand their motives, perhaps you can make a deal that satisfies them and your patron, without killing them all off. Even if you must fight them, spare those who are clearly beaten, give them a chance to lay down their weopons and repent.
And play, play, play! Get into your character's role, talk the way he would, use your arms, your eyes, stand up at the table to gesture furiously!
Either you will get others into the act and shame the DM into a new style of play, or you will look rediculous but have a good laugh afterwards, but you cannot complain if you have not done anything to try to change.
#8
rogue9851
Jun 28, 2008 12:05:33 After discussion with my best friend, we're going to take Aaror's suggestion after talking to our DM. We're going to derail CotSQ and just leave the little town be, and head off on our own.

Thanks, folks. Appreciate all the help!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rogue9851 Jun 24, 2008 13:42:18	Hey, folks: So, I've been involved in a game with a few friends for nigh on a year and a half. We've got five players: My best friend, who generally leans towards evil as much as possible. He played a LN Paladin variant that tortured and killed prisoners, and is currently playing a Minotaur Barbarian. He's gotten bored, though, and has generated a Warlock to dominate the cow and make him his *****. Wants to roleplay more, since we basically move from place to place killing things. Me! I generally play Good characters(okay, always.) I've gone through several characters as well, generally bringing up a new iteration when the group decides to change. We're ADD like that. I'm currently playing a VoP Monk, after playing a LG Paladin. I'm seriously debating bringing back the Paladin; he was a ton of fun. My biggest flaw is that I am an insufferable rules lawyer, though I generally do so quietly after the session. I really, really want to roleplay more in-character, even though my character tends to disagree with several of the party members. The Fatbeard: Thinks 2e was better, constantly pushes for houserules to make 3.5 more like his beloved incarnation. Plays a Rogue/Wizard that carries round probably 50 scrolls/potions and does very little other than throw fireballs and other spells. Prefers we do all roleplaying on web forums, so we can save session time for dice rolling. My girlfriend: Half Copper Dragon Cleric: She's new to the game, but otherwise pretty good. Not saying this because I'm biased: If she knew more what she was doing, she'd be awesome to play with. Doesn't have any particular opinion on roleplaying, but is tired of doing exactly what the DM has planned. The Fatbeard(2): Also has a fondness for 2e. Plays a MoMF. He's only been with us for a few weeks, and I haven't a huge opinion about him. I don't think he's much into RP. The DM: Okay, so this is probably where my problem lies the most: He's taken us through not one, but three pregenned adventures. We've met all of one interesting NPC, and generally spend no time learning about the world we're in. We go from place to place, killing this or killing that. How do I convince him that there's more to the game than blowing things up and beating people to death? ...also, does anyone have a handy link to an explanation of the alignment system I can show him to demonstrate that Good characters are generally disallowed from slaughtering unarmed prisoners and the like? If I'm wrong there, tell me. Thanks, folks! I've never posted and not gotten good responses. Keep it up! -Rogue9851
#2 josheva Jun 24, 2008 13:53:33	I would suggest that you take over DMing your game. In my experience, DMs who use pregenned adventures do so because they do not have the time, creativity, resources, or ambition to create their own detailed world and campaign. It sounds as if you have the creativity to do so, so step up to the plate. In response to the alignment question, you may simply look up the alignments in the players' handbook. However, you will find nothing there saying that good people are disallowed from performing evil acts. The reason for this is that your alignment does not determine how you act. Rather, how you act determines your alignment. Having "Lawful Good" written in as your alignment does not stop you from torturing an orphan baby while drowning his pet puppy. However, if you do things like that then "Lawful Good" should not be recorded as your alignment because you are not roleplaying it. In situations where good guys turn bad, alignments can change. The alignment thing takes some common sense, which in this world is alarmingly uncommon.
#3 rogue9851 Jun 24, 2008 15:00:10	Whoops. As far as alignment goes, I meant for things that are alignment-dependent, like VoP or Paladinhood. I really want to run a game, but I enjoy playing too much, and don't have the time to play more than I already do. Thanks, though!
#4 thepanther Jun 24, 2008 18:03:16	Well, if you are not the only one who is unhappy about the playstyle of your DM, then maybe you should let him know, straight and honest, that you will prefer to have a different play experience. It is also likely that your DM doesnt have the time, inclination or imagination to run a RP-heavy campaign, and pregenned combat-focused adventures are a lot easier to run. Don't blame him for that - you yourself have admitted that you'd rather not spend the time/energy to run a game. On the last question, that's exactly why alignment-specific restrictions went the way of the dodo with 4th edition Alignment was never meant to be a straightjacket. Now it's no longer. And do you really want rules to tell you that murdering unarmed prisoners is not a very good thing? You got the Book of Exalted Deeds i presume, it should have plenty of rules on that kind of stuff
#5 themocaw Jun 24, 2008 18:13:10	I would suggest that you take over DMing your game. In my experience, DMs who use pregenned adventures do so because they do not have the time, creativity, resources, or ambition to create their own detailed world and campaign. I take issue with that, not because it's untrue, but because you imply that it somehow explains the DM's flaws. The DM is a boring DM not becuase he uses pregenned adventures. He's a boring DM because he's a boring DM who runs the pregen as walk here, kill this. It's very possible to run pregenned adventures in an exciting and interesting fashion.
#6 raynard_the_black Jun 25, 2008 12:51:26	To me, it sounds like you're stuck. You don't care for the current DM's playstyle, yet you have decided you won't walk the talk to show him how you feel it should be done. I think you should either take over DMing for a while and "show them how it's done" or be quiet and enjoy the fact that you have someone willing to DM for you.
#7 aaror Jun 27, 2008 7:00:52	OK, time for me to be bad... In times like these, a paladin can no longer serve the laws, but must turn towards the cause of good in any way he can. It is time to take up the mantle of the holy liberator! As such, you must choose not to follow the rules of your lawful neutral DM, and act as you know you must. If you meet an NPC, talk to them. If one tries to hire you, ask his motives, distrust them, ask to talk to others in town to discover if your patron is lying. Try to talk to the monsters, seek to understand their motives, perhaps you can make a deal that satisfies them and your patron, without killing them all off. Even if you must fight them, spare those who are clearly beaten, give them a chance to lay down their weopons and repent. And play, play, play! Get into your character's role, talk the way he would, use your arms, your eyes, stand up at the table to gesture furiously! Either you will get others into the act and shame the DM into a new style of play, or you will look rediculous but have a good laugh afterwards, but you cannot complain if you have not done anything to try to change.
#8 rogue9851 Jun 28, 2008 12:05:33	After discussion with my best friend, we're going to take Aaror's suggestion after talking to our DM. We're going to derail CotSQ and just leave the little town be, and head off on our own. Thanks, folks. Appreciate all the help!