Though I've never played one, I'm making one and it seems that barbarians are way overpowered. The rages are sick, rage strike is carnage reaping at later levels, the frenzied berserker paragon path is like Chuck Norris on steroids, and I'm already over thirty hit points at first level. What's the catch?!
Fairly poor defenses, Rage Strike eats a Daily per swing, and everyone and their mother focusses fire on you when they see that damage output. (Or should, anyway)
But yeah, from what I've seen they are pretty wicked.
No class has a downside in 4E 
If you run a baseline campaign (4 to 6 encounter before an extended rest*), the barbarian's damage output is about on the same level as that of the other strikers. Then again, I might be used to dwarven waraxe wielding striker build fighters, dual implement wielding halfling storm sorcerers and strength based rogues who know how to get combat advantage for the better part of a fight next to the barbarian...
* This is particularly important in regards to the high [W] dailies. They cost a rage attempt. If you have too few fights a day, then that is not a cost at all, but if you do, you are going to note it, especially since a rage is usually much better and more fun then just a lot of damage.
A barbarian is relatively easy to control. It tends to have low defences, and because it's a melee class, being slowed and immobilised can effectively put it out of the game.
Despite the amount of hit points it seem to have, the Barbarians are glassaxes.
Focus fire on him for one round, and theres a good chance he won't be standing afterwards.
Had an epic party defeat Orcus this weekend, what did it was the Demigod barbarian..... kept dishing out Hurricanes of Blades each round when the others were on at-will powers.
Might have been a combination but the whole level 26-30 part was won because of the barbarian..... despite having also a ranger in the team. Ranger stole the spotlight during heroic to mid-paragon but after that it was the barbarian all the way.
The barbarian had the second best AC after the defender (1 point under, equal when raging). His only downside, Will save because he was rageblood. Give him a cleric so he can save once/round and you're good to go. I think the Barbarian being from PH2 is more powerful or more balanced depending on your point of view than the Ranger from the PH1.
I would have to agree with the apparent lack of defenses, at least for most of them. Their class only grants +2 Fort, which is indeed awesome until one of the NPCs uses Dominate. However, their AC and Ref will always suffer, thanks to a lower INT/DEX, only having Hide armor and no shield.
So, Throg hit good, but Throg no can take good.
However, see how your little Barb does in combat against real opponents, not guesswork. Admittedly, I've only helped someone build one and we have yet to test it, but we'll see how it goes.
That, and they don't have much in the way of range, and as far as I know, charging means an OA from the bad guys.
Had an epic party defeat Orcus this weekend, what did it was the Demigod barbarian..... kept dishing out Hurricanes of Blades each round when the others were on at-will powers.
Might have been a combination but the whole level 26-30 part was won because of the barbarian..... despite having also a ranger in the team. Ranger stole the spotlight during heroic to mid-paragon but after that it was the barbarian all the way.
The barbarian had the second best AC after the defender (1 point under, equal when raging). His only downside, Will save because he was rageblood. Give him a cleric so he can save once/round and you're good to go. I think the Barbarian being from PH2 is more powerful or more balanced depending on your point of view than the Ranger from the PH1.
What you prove was good the Demigod epic destiny is, not neccesry how good the barbarian. Any person who never runs out of encounters is going to be better then someone who has to use at wills
barbs are generally great at getting into fights. not so much at getting out of it.
if the barb can't one-on-one the enemy or gets swarmed, he's in trouble. best they can do is deal as much damage as they can and hopefully they can stall with some powers that grant temp HP or resistances. they're strong and tough, but they can only focus on what's in front of the axe.
In my experience, Barbarians do a bit too much damage, and can make other Strikers feel impotent at their role.
The only real downside, which is kind of a downside for the whole party rather than the Barbarian, is that Barbarians need healing about every 5 seconds. The extra HP don't help as much when you use a power that gives you a minus 4 to AC.
The extra HP don't help as much when you use a power that gives you a minus 4 to AC.
But you can't tell me it's not fun to kill something that way. And there is a difference between minus 4 to AC and +4 on attacks against you. Could also be Fort, Ref or Will. Lets the enemies use the moves they want to without feeling obligated to choose any one. Just as 4th Edition should.
Barbarians are able to go down fast, but they're extraordinary fun to play up until that point. Their downsides are their melee-ness and their way of being the main attraction. When someone sees a barbarian crush their tough buddy in one round, they know they're screwed.
I once critted with the Frost Wolf Rage daily (it was actually quite funny how that played out -- I closed my eyes and covered my ears as I threw the die, fearing to see the result of my potentially wasted new Daily). Did over 50 damage. At level 5. Makes a striker feel like he's doing his job.
Really though, does it matter at all when your AC of 17 drops by 4 points at say 8th level. All enemies go from only missing on a 1, to only missing on a 1. Hyperbole here but you get the point, yes?
Sort of in the same vein as "Defenders don't want an AC too high". Barbarians shouldn't bother helping AC, and should instead grab DR and extra Temp HP.
All just a theory and haven't really put any more thought that 45 seconds it took to type this into it.
50 damage. At level 5. Makes a striker feel like he's doing his job.
That is badass - this shiz, is what D&D is about. A-woo-WOOOp!
I once critted with the Frost Wolf Rage daily (it was actually quite funny how that played out -- I closed my eyes and covered my ears as I threw the die, fearing to see the result of my potentially wasted new Daily). Did over 50 damage. At level 5. Makes a striker feel like he's doing his job.
Pff, that's nothing. My player critted not once but twice with his At-will attack and then Rampage for no less than 96 damage at level 4 
Our Barbarian had to be level 1 retired, after it was knocked out twice in the same encounter, and nearly took the rest of the party with it. No AC + bad dice = dead Barb
This was something I had noticed as well while DMing. The party's Barbarian, while a damage output beast, was even more fragile than the mage. He would draw a lot of attention to himself and would get bloodied in eveyr single combat. Out of all the combats we did over 9 levels, the Barbarian was the only one to get knocked to zero twice.
While they may seem to be pure awesomesauce, the require full party support just like any other role. They'll need a defender to draw the heaviest attacks away from them; they'll need a leader to keep refilling their HP every other round (if not every round); and they'll need a controller to save their skin when they repeatedly swarmed over. Not so different than just about every other striker in the game, save that they lower defenses than most other strikers and lack any effects that can keep them from being attacked.
I will admit I was pretty surprised seeing my AC was barely above 10, but it seems like with my HP and several different self-heal options, I'll be OK. Barbarians are about DAMAGE, not caution. I'm just gonna throw myself in. Anyway, I have yet to play, and I've just discovered I have to start at level 13, so now I have 111 HP, 21 AC (big whoop there) and damage that should take out some weaker foes in about two hits. Gonna be fun.
Um, you guys have seen Hide Expertise right?
Forget that whole myth about barbarians having bad AC. They now have (potentially) the second highest AC in the game.
At the very worst they at least a point or two ahead of all the non-defenders.
What's hide expertise?
A feat from Primal Power that allows you to add your Con to AC instead of Int/Dex.
A feat from Primal Power that allows you to add your Con to AC instead of Int/Dex.
If only I was still playing Jak the minotaur rageblood barbarian when Primal Power came out. Jak would be standing sturdy.
This feat would practically permit a Rageblood to dump Dexterity. Just nut up until you can get the feat.
As a level 4 core class Barbarian from 3.5 (We had nothing to go on but the core rulebooks) I had an instance where I critted for big damage (for my level) and chopped the head off of a frost giant. When creating the character I had a lucky roll and wound up with 20 strength (18 roll + half orc racial bonus) so I have a +5 modifier. The round before the fighter or the ranger (one of the two) managed to pull off a fancy trick and knocked the giant prone. Having raged a round earlier, I had around a +10 damage bonus with my mundane, store-bought greataxe. Add a max power attack to it, and you have 18 damage altogether. I hit a critical on my attack roll, that's 54 damage just from the modifiers. The rolls were 12, 7, and 4.
77 damage with nothing more than a regular, non-magical greataxe, and the giant took a dirt nap. The fighter got kind of annoyed with me because I joined the campaign a bit late, and while the rest of the crew are level 7-ish I am vastly outpacing them on damage. I will note that my AC is virtually nil, so I tend to get knocked around if the fighter doesn't have the attention of the baddie.
[...] the rest of the crew are level 7-ish I am vastly outpacing them on damage. I will note that my AC is virtually nil, so I tend to get knocked around if the fighter doesn't have the attention of the baddie.
Heh. Some things never change.
I have yet to look into Primal Powers, but I'll definitely have to get that. Thanks!
It's also worth noting that barbarians don't really have much that they can do to contribute to the effectiveness of others during a nova round. They do quite well as someone to layer bonuses on and pump attacks into, but the most they can really do to help other people is inflict dazing and/or prone so that their friends get combat advantage.
Had an epic party defeat Orcus this weekend, what did it was the Demigod barbarian..... kept dishing out Hurricanes of Blades each round when the others were on at-will powers.
Was it fake Orcus from Prince of Undeath, or REAL Orcus from Rappan Athuk?
They're only meaningful downfalls are they'ew lack of utility out of the battlefield. A thaneborn may be moderately good and social encounters using skills keyed off of CHA, but they have the serious pitfall of extremely limited knowledge skills. And few cmapaigns are exclusively hackin'slash.
I also think barbarian agillity will be errated so it won't stack with HAE. Thus they'll have the AC of most other's, instead of above most others.
I'm surprised no one menioned this, but their down fall is ranged attacks. Barbs can do anything vs a flying artillary, or creatures on a wall. They move fast and can cover distance fine, but if they can't get to their target, they're just wasting space.
I also think barbarian agillity will be errated so it won't stack with HAE. Thus they'll have the AC of most other's, instead of above most others.
doesn't javlins solve some of that problem
doesn't javlins solve some of that problem
Not quite, since he loses a lot of features for basic attacks. A Fighter can at least mark with such attacks, having some utility. So if one compares melee strikers (haven't read Assassin or Monk):
Rogue - Have good ranged powers, but litte harder to get CA (but at least possible)
Melee Ranger - Quarry always works and Heavy Thrown weapons usable to him.
Avenger - This one is a little shafted, but at least he has access to some ranged implement powers
Barbarian - Nothing but Basic attacks
doesn't javlins solve some of that problem
Not quite, since he loses a lot of features for basic attacks. A Fighter can at least mark with such attacks, having some utility. So if one compares melee strikers (haven't read Assassin or Monk):
Rogue - Have good ranged powers, but litte harder to get CA (but at least possible)
Melee Ranger - Quarry always works and Heavy Thrown weapons usable to him.
Avenger - This one is a little shafted, but at least he has access to some ranged implement powers
Barbarian - Nothing but Basic attacks
I said some of the problems not all
