Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 hamdendanske Mar 09, 2013 9:34:16	Hey people At the moment our party is stuck in Ravenloft castle... and we're in a tight situation. I play a gnome bard and our team has been split up by unfortunate events... This means that I am only together with our druid at the moment and the two of us have just been in a tight battle against a group of demons. We have stumbled upon quite a powerfull Vampire. Since the druid is low on spells we don't have many options available at the moment. The barbarian and Cleric is stuck in the throne room so we are on our own. That's where my question appears. My DM says that Bardic songs don't affect undeads because they don't have any intelligent minds to affect. But how about vampires? Can I for example use suggestion on them? since they are in the same category as undeads it might not be possible but they are much more intelligent than most undeads. What do you think? Oh and please no spoilers about the Ravenloft campaign If we survive this next session we still have far to go.
#2 Beldak_Serpenthelm Mar 09, 2013 10:25:18	Hey people At the moment our party is stuck in Ravenloft castle... and we're in a tight situation. I play a gnome bard and our team has been split up by unfortunate events... This means that I am only together with our druid at the moment and the two of us have just been in a tight battle against a group of demons. We have stumbled upon quite a powerfull Vampire. Since the druid is low on spells we don't have many options available at the moment. The barbarian and Cleric is stuck in the throne room so we are on our own. That's where my question appears. My DM says that Bardic songs don't affect undeads because they don't have any intelligent minds to affect. But how about vampires? Can I for example use suggestion on them? since they are in the same category as undeads it might not be possible but they are much more intelligent than most undeads. What do you think? Oh and please no spoilers about the Ravenloft campaign If we survive this next session we still have far to go. I don't see why not: if a creature with an INT score were immune to spells/powers... that creatures without an INT are immune to, simply becuase it was in the same category as another creature that didn't have one, would that make much sense? If the DM doesn't want the song to work, he doesn't have to and it won't work, he just has to admit that it's because he doesn't want it to work, not because the rulebooks allegedly think that vampires are unintelligent.
#3 Fireclave Mar 09, 2013 11:18:29	By the RAW, most bard songs will not work on vampires. Vampires are immune to "mind-affecting abilities" by virtue of having the Undead creature type, and the vampire's entry does not make an exception to this rule. Therefore, Vampires are immune to Bard song that explicitly state they are mind-affecting, which includes all standard Bardic Music except Counter Song and Song of Freedom.
#4 alsebra Mar 09, 2013 13:18:48	What other resources do the two of you have (since bardic music is fairly useless)?  Weapons, spells left, feats, other equipment...you may be able to pull off an upset with what you have*. * I only say this because, in one past campaign, my party came across a barghest (our DM was a dick) at level 2.  My only recourse was to attempt a trip (my spells were of a non-combat type and shifting wasn't an option) with the sickle that was my primary weapon;  when it worked, our Fighter and Barbarian really enjoyed the AoOs that the creature provoked when it tried to stand.
#5 hamdendanske Mar 10, 2013 10:15:30	Hmm if the bardic music doesn't work we will definetly need to figure out something else. My Bard CHR have been purely support for the heavy fighters and then manipulating the enemies weak to mind spells. But since the druid is very low on spells I can't support him that much. Druid has some summon spells left and we are in a room filled with magic items. I think some bardic knowledge can be usefull to spot some helpfull devices. Another stragety is more complex. I have promised a troll to free him from his Oath stone and the vampire we are against is in possesion of this oth stone. If I can find this stone either by tricking the vampire with diplomacy or just plain luck then maybe I can destroy the stone and we can get help from the troll... I think we need to pay close attention to the room we're in and see what kind of items we could use... Thanks for the tips so far!
#6 aaronjoncheney Mar 15, 2013 1:04:42	Run away.  Fight the battle on your terms if possible.