Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 biggoron Sep 24, 2012 18:57:39	I am currently in a group of 5 (sometimes 6) players with rotating DM duties. We are playing 4e. By role we consist of 1 leader (myself), 3 strikers, and 2 striker-leaning controllers. The person who DMs the most is more a fan of roleplaying versus rules. She's been playing and DMing a lot longer than me, and she says the way she plays is the way Dungeons and Dragons is supposed to be played, and half the group vastly prefers her style. She doesnt use tiles or miniatures or props for combat (meaning we just make our rolls in turn without any terrain, movement, or range concerns) and usually pits us against 1 mob with its HP increased about 400% and other stats intact. When I made a leader role character (in this case a bard) she warned me it wouldnt be needed or useful and any campaign that even needs a healer is "unbalanced". I've used majestic word only about twice in 5 levels. She puts a lot of work into her characters and props, which is cool, but she allows the party to get off-track easily (we once spent over 2 real hours in a marketplace just shopping, while she would roll random and sometimes wildly inappropriate loot from an AD&D treasure list for us to choose to buy). Other problems arise because merely because we have 3 regular DMs because of the rotation. There's no real consistency or continuity between sessions and by nature the party and location are never the same two game days in a row. Is this normal? Does anyone else play this way?
#2 CorranHornIsAwesome Sep 24, 2012 19:03:47	First of all, I would dispute that "this is the way D&D is supposed to be played", that kind of attitude typically brings with it other issues while playing. I wouldn't say she's a bad DM, since that's a fairly subjective judgement to make, but I will say that her campaign seems to be very....narrow, and I certainly wouldn't have any fun playing in her campaign. Are you enjoying it enough to stay?
#3 Centauri Sep 24, 2012 19:08:11	Without the attitude about classes and how things are "supposed" to be played, that sounds like it could be reasonably enjoyable. I think she, like most DMs, needs to get a little more input from the players, about what they like and how they want to play. I can't really speak to issues arising from having multiple DMs, except to say that if everyone was collaborating on providing input on the game and what goes on in it, then I think you'd see a higher level of consistency.
#4 Noctaem Sep 24, 2012 19:32:42	I don't think she's a bad DM.  That said I think that I wouldn't enjoy having her as MY dm.  I would also say that if the 3 DM's aren't sharing notes at all and from session to session everything changes including areas that the party is in etc..  It kind of stops the party from forming an understanding of what's happening in the world around them.  Makes me think of something that would be in the plane of Chaos.   I would also agree with Corran and point out that there are thousands upon thousands of people who don't play the way she does, this includes sanctioned events and competitions by WOTC.  So obviously her statement that this is the way DnD is meant to be played is pretty far off the mark.  You could also point out to her that published adventures come with battle maps for encounters / skill challenges.  Furthermore the published content does not use monsters with 400% normal hp for combat encounters.  If she wants to use a solo monster for every encounter that's her choice but I find it would get boring pretty fast unless there's always alternate goals within the encounter.  Also every "leader" class having 2 heals per encounter built in disagrees with her statement that healers are not needed in a regular party and if they are then combat is imbalanced.  It really seems like she's never played the official 4th edition.  My guess would be that she comes from ADnD or 2nd edition or at least she learned from someone who did.  Maybe 3rd edition but it's less likely from the playstyle you describe. If the rest of the players at the table enjoy her play style and you don't, there's nothing wrong with that.  So like Corran asked, do you like it enough to stay ?
#5 biggoron Sep 24, 2012 20:28:36	She learned on 2nd edition, then bought a bunch of 4e books a couple of years ago. I came from 3.5e myself. I'd like to keep playing since I really like D&D. But since my group is made up of my friends, I can't really go play with another group, and most of the books we use belong to this other player (it's her copy of the DMG and PHB we use). But no, I don't enjoy it when this person DMs.
#6 Noctaem Sep 24, 2012 21:01:00	well have you tried talking to the rest of the group ?  Maybe as others mentionned if the group was more organized in between DM's it would work better.  Maybe have an open discussion about it where you can explain why you don't enjoy her DM'ing style as much as others.  Of course the goal here isn't to break up friendships, it's to talk amongst friends.  You can address her statements about how her way is the "proper" way, you could explain using examples that you don't believe it is the only way to play and that there's other ways, that she could try in order to get a better understanding. Or not, cut your losses and suck it up lol.
#7 CorranHornIsAwesome Sep 25, 2012 5:30:24	She learned on 2nd edition, then bought a bunch of 4e books a couple of years ago. I came from 3.5e myself. I'd like to keep playing since I really like D&D. But since my group is made up of my friends, I can't really go play with another group, and most of the books we use belong to this other player (it's her copy of the DMG and PHB we use). But no, I don't enjoy it when this person DMs. Do you have the option to leave her group without leaving the game when the other people DM? If they're your friends and you don't want to offend them, maybe say you have something work-related on X day every month, so you don't hurt her feelings.
#8 Mr.Durriken Sep 25, 2012 8:50:25	The worst game situations I have every been in revolved around a DM whose ideas on the game conflict with mine (and most of the other players at the table) and it really ruined the fun for all of us.  Fortunately that was on a fixed time frame and ended before I was totally ready to rage quit, and I was out of town travelling on business and conveniently missed a couple of sessions. It's really hard to play when you are not having fun, or when you see other at the table not having fun.  It's a game after all.  It is suppose to be fun.  And there is no "wrongbad" way to play, as long as its fun.  So if you get any enjoyment from it, and the other are as well, cool.  If you like the people and the company, maybe rolling with it is best. If the game totally sucks for you, maybe take a hiatus until another DM rotates in.  Tell them whatever you want, maybe its just personal and you need to take some time off from the game.  Which is could be totally true. TjD
#9 LordOfWeasels Sep 25, 2012 9:57:04	. But no, I don't enjoy it when this person DMs. So don't play with her. She's clearly established that she expects your character to be useless, the way she runs combat bears that out, and you're not enjoying the non-combat part either - so just step out when she runs and come back when someone else swaps in. Easy.
#10 svendj Sep 26, 2012 3:51:12	When I made a leader role character (in this case a bard) she warned me it wouldnt be needed or useful and any campaign that even needs a healer is "unbalanced". I've used majestic word only about twice in 5 levels. There are more than enough ways to make yourself useful as a Bard. You have a lot of skill bonuses, you have high Charisma, you can move people around, grant them attacks and attack/damage bonuses, you're a ritual caster... need I go on? So if you feel useless, that's only because you don't take full advantage of what the class has to offer. Bards are some of the most versatile characters you can play, both in and out of combat. With a small investment and some imagination, you can quickly become the most important member of your party. And that has absolutely nothing to do with healing.  She puts a lot of work into her characters and props, which is cool, but she allows the party to get off-track easily (we once spent over 2 real hours in a marketplace just shopping, while she would roll random and sometimes wildly inappropriate loot from an AD&D treasure list for us to choose to buy). Other problems arise because merely because we have 3 regular DMs because of the rotation. There's no real consistency or continuity between sessions and by nature the party and location are never the same two game days in a row. You can solve these issues by bringing them up before or after a session, and talk about it with your group. Alternatively, if you feel a scene is taking too long, there's no shame in saying that out loud. If most of the group agrees, you move on. If not, then either have some patience or throw yourself headlong into the scene so you'll at least get some enjoyment of it.
#11 Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe Sep 27, 2012 11:06:35	When I made a leader role character (in this case a bard) she warned me it wouldnt be needed or useful and any campaign that even needs a healer is "unbalanced". I've used majestic word only about twice in 5 levels. There are more than enough ways to make yourself useful as a Bard. You have a lot of skill bonuses, you have high Charisma, you can move people around, grant them attacks and attack/damage bonuses, you're a ritual caster... need I go on? So if you feel useless, that's only because you don't take full advantage of what the class has to offer. Bards are some of the most versatile characters you can play, both in and out of combat. With a small investment and some imagination, you can quickly become the most important member of your party. And that has absolutely nothing to do with healing.  She puts a lot of work into her characters and props, which is cool, but she allows the party to get off-track easily (we once spent over 2 real hours in a marketplace just shopping, while she would roll random and sometimes wildly inappropriate loot from an AD&D treasure list for us to choose to buy). Other problems arise because merely because we have 3 regular DMs because of the rotation. There's no real consistency or continuity between sessions and by nature the party and location are never the same two game days in a row. You can solve these issues by bringing them up before or after a session, and talk about it with your group. Alternatively, if you feel a scene is taking too long, there's no shame in saying that out loud. If most of the group agrees, you move on. If not, then either have some patience or throw yourself headlong into the scene so you'll at least get some enjoyment of it. Just because the DM says your character won't be needed or will be useless... play it anyway. Nothing wrong with a so-called 'useless' character. I don't actually believe there is a such thing as a useless character. Heck... bardic knowledge alone is enough reason to make a bard useful in ANY party. Sometimes when I DM I find the players caught up in situations like yours at the market... especially if I don't have a major story idea going at the time. While everybody else is shopping, use that time as a charismatic bard to gather information. Try to use bardic knowledge on every item the characters buy. If they buy a sword, ask the DM if the sword had a previous owner. What happened to him or her? If they buy alchemical items... ask about the alchemist. Ask for details on what the items look like. Be specific. If they buy jewelry, ask where the gems came from. Ask about the jeweler. And as soon as the DM has something that sounds interesting... try to find out more information and drag the other players into it. That masterwork bow that the player buys may very well have belonged to the son of an important lord. How did it end up in this small town market? IF the DM is selling MAGIC... even better. Who is the creator of these items? Are they stolen? This works especially well if the items they are buying seem 'inappropriate' for the market. Jump on the opportunity to solve that 'mystery'. Make the task of finding out seem to the other players like the most important thing they have ever done. If you want to be a leader... give them something to follow.
#12 Centauri Sep 27, 2012 11:14:39	Sometimes when I DM I find the players caught up in situations like yours at the market... especially if I don't have a major story idea going at the time. While everybody else is shopping, use that time as a charismatic bard to gather information. Try to use bardic knowledge on every item the characters buy. If they buy a sword, ask the DM if the sword had a previous owner. What happened to him or her? If they buy alchemical items... ask about the alchemist. Ask for details on what the items look like. Be specific. If they buy jewelry, ask where the gems came from. Ask about the jeweler. And as soon as the DM has something that sounds interesting... try to find out more information and drag the other players into it. That masterwork bow that the player buys may very well have belonged to the son of an important lord. How did it end up in this small town market? IF the DM is selling MAGIC... even better. Who is the creator of these items? Are they stolen? This works especially well if the items they are buying seem 'inappropriate' for the market. Jump on the opportunity to solve that 'mystery'. Make the task of finding out seem to the other players like the most important thing they have ever done. If you want to be a leader... give them something to follow. Yikes. Be careful. In theory this is fun, but that sort of thing usually bugs the heck out of me as a player, because neither the bard nor the DM do it with much regard to the overall game. Heck, shopping in general bugs me. Well, there was that cool shopping scene in The Lord of the Rings. Wait a minute, no there wasn't.
#13 Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe Sep 27, 2012 11:40:25	I am currently in a group of 5 (sometimes 6) players with rotating DM duties. We are playing 4e. By role we consist of 1 leader (myself), 3 strikers, and 2 striker-leaning controllers. The person who DMs the most is more a fan of roleplaying versus rules. She's been playing and DMing a lot longer than me, and she says the way she plays is the way Dungeons and Dragons is supposed to be played, and half the group vastly prefers her style. She doesnt use tiles or miniatures or props for combat (meaning we just make our rolls in turn without any terrain, movement, or range concerns) and usually pits us against 1 mob with its HP increased about 400% and other stats intact. When I made a leader role character (in this case a bard) she warned me it wouldnt be needed or useful and any campaign that even needs a healer is "unbalanced". I've used majestic word only about twice in 5 levels. She puts a lot of work into her characters and props, which is cool, but she allows the party to get off-track easily (we once spent over 2 real hours in a marketplace just shopping, while she would roll random and sometimes wildly inappropriate loot from an AD&D treasure list for us to choose to buy). Other problems arise because merely because we have 3 regular DMs because of the rotation. There's no real consistency or continuity between sessions and by nature the party and location are never the same two game days in a row. Is this normal? Does anyone else play this way? I've increased monster hp before as a simple way to make a monster a little harder to kill - more of a challenge. The leader of a group of orcs, for instance might have more hp than normal. I could take the time to give such a monster character levels, but it's quicker to just boost hp. It's barely noticeable to the player, especially when the monster is described as the meanest looking orc wearing a mass of grisly war trophies. Go with it, just remember when you call the orc 'pig-face' that he isn't going to be a chop-you're-dead kill. If your DM started with 2e and is now playing 4e, she may be trying to capture the deadly vibe of the earlier editions. To some folks (self included) who played the older versions, 4e is comparatively nerfed. Go with it. You've made it to at least level 5. Maybe the rotating DMs need to get together and decide what the world is all about. My brothers and I played this style of DnD way back when, but our adventures were pretty much guild thieves going from house to house within a single city. It sounds like you are actually playing 3 different campaigns. It's like watching 3 movies at the same time, huh? There's no such thing as normal, I think. But I have played the way you describe, except I'm DM 9 out of 10 times with other peeps jumping in to DM mini-adventures or mini-campaigns. Having the same person DM makes for better consistency, but sometimes the DM gets a bit burned out and wants to play. I don't know if you've played other editions than 4e. It may be that the idea of leader, striker and controller and controller-striker as being roles are not what the DM means when she thinks of 'roles'. I think she means 'role' more along the theater version of that definition. A role, in this sense, is a description of the persona of the character you are playing. Role-playing, in this sense means that the emphasis is more on the qualities and personality traits that would make your bard a man (or woman) to follow and less on where your bard is standing during combat. If the problem is with the DM's style and time-wastin' - the most important thing to do is tell the DM what you like to see more of before each session and tell the DM what you liked best after each session.
#14 mastercliff Sep 27, 2012 11:51:14	Well, there was that cool shopping scene in The Lord of the Rings. Wait a minute, no there wasn't. There was that shopping for beer.  Did you see how big that mug was?  I've had an entire session for shopping.  It was all done rp.  Was I horrified?  Yes.  But did the characters love it?  Oh yeah. Bad?  No.  Biased?  Yes.  The person sounds like he's trying to run a final fantasy game, rather than D&D.  I'm curious though.  This is in the same game where the dms rotate?  That sounds like loot can become completely unbalanced.  Especially with 2e items(vorpal sword anyone?).
#15 Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe Sep 27, 2012 11:55:25	Sometimes when I DM I find the players caught up in situations like yours at the market... especially if I don't have a major story idea going at the time. While everybody else is shopping, use that time as a charismatic bard to gather information. Try to use bardic knowledge on every item the characters buy. If they buy a sword, ask the DM if the sword had a previous owner. What happened to him or her? If they buy alchemical items... ask about the alchemist. Ask for details on what the items look like. Be specific. If they buy jewelry, ask where the gems came from. Ask about the jeweler. And as soon as the DM has something that sounds interesting... try to find out more information and drag the other players into it. That masterwork bow that the player buys may very well have belonged to the son of an important lord. How did it end up in this small town market? IF the DM is selling MAGIC... even better. Who is the creator of these items? Are they stolen? This works especially well if the items they are buying seem 'inappropriate' for the market. Jump on the opportunity to solve that 'mystery'. Make the task of finding out seem to the other players like the most important thing they have ever done. If you want to be a leader... give them something to follow. Yikes. Be careful. In theory this is fun, but that sort of thing usually bugs the heck out of me as a player, because neither the bard nor the DM do it with much regard to the overall game. Heck, shopping in general bugs me. Well, there was that cool shopping scene in The Lord of the Rings. Wait a minute, no there wasn't. I hear ya... unless there is a legit reason for our characters to be 'shoppin', I hate being there, too. BUT - I've seen more than one DM do this and the other players spend ALL FRIGGIN DAY asking if they got boots of this and amulets of that and rings of this and wands of that and scrolls of whatever. It doesn't seem to matter if they're epic characters on a time-limited quest to save the 9 worlds... you hint that if they got enough money and they can buy a vorpal sword at the local greengrocer and you got an all day search on your hands. I'm just saying, if you can't drag them kicking and screaming toward an adventure, the best you can do is try to scrounge one up while the mall rats are busy shopping for 'accessories'. If the players are shopping for fireball wands at the local market, those players don't have much regards for the overall game and the DM is probably (hopefully) just killing time because she doesn't have any better ideas just yet. If the market is just an excuse for the players to meet people and get info, use it for such. If not, good bard... find out who is buying and selling wands of death ray to the local populace; I'm sure the local lord would love to hear THAT song.
#16 Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe Sep 27, 2012 12:13:15	Well, there was that cool shopping scene in The Lord of the Rings. Wait a minute, no there wasn't. There was that shopping for beer.  Did you see how big that mug was?  I've had an entire session for shopping.  It was all done rp.  Was I horrified?  Yes.  But did the characters love it?  Oh yeah. Bad?  No.  Biased?  Yes.  The person sounds like he's trying to run a final fantasy game, rather than D&D.  I'm curious though.  This is in the same game where the dms rotate?  That sounds like loot can become completely unbalanced.  Especially with 2e items(vorpal sword anyone?). He could always say to the party "I've got a bad feeling about all these magic items being for sale at such low, low prices", then keep up with everything they buy. Then... when it is his turn to DM he can say, "The red star that marks the Wizard's Staff in the constellation of the Wizard rises over the city. A vague feeling of unease comes over your characters as you see that all the items you bought in the market the other day are glowing with that same evil red glow." And every object they bought that day bears a curse. D&D Frodo: I use the light of Elendriel, a gift from the elf-witch Final Fantasy Frodo: I use the light of Elendriel, a buy-one-get-one-free special at the candlemaker's shop
#17 KColette Sep 28, 2012 4:09:30	The way I see it, shopping scenes can accomplish two major goals. (Note that that isn't to say they can't do anything else, just that these two points stand out in my mind.) 1. The pre-dungeon crawl/big battle preparation can help raise tension and give the players the sense that they are getting ready for something major, as opposed to going "I buy X, Y and Z, now let's hit the road!" 2. A post-adventure 'sell the loot and restock' scene can be a welcome moment of down time between adventures, letting the players and their characters take a little while to just relax as opposed to worrying about how to deal with the threat of the month. There's also the occasion "while out shopping you spot X" opportunities, but that's more tangently related. But my players tend to enjoy roleplaying these sorts of interactions. And as long as they don't hold up the game for too long, I enjoy them, too. Spontaneously coming up with a shopkeeper is also a nice way to stay in practice on making NPCs at the drop of a hat. If some of the players are getting bored, nudge things along. If you're getting bored, nudge the players along. But avoid going "Your shopping is done, move on!" Thank you, it's 1 am.
#18 Kingreaper Sep 30, 2012 8:37:38	She doesnt use tiles or miniatures or props for combat (meaning we just make our rolls in turn without any terrain, movement, or range concerns) and usually pits us against 1 mob with its HP increased about 400% and other stats intact. I've increased monster hp before as a simple way to make a monster a little harder to kill - more of a challenge. The leader of a group of orcs, for instance might have more hp than normal. I could take the time to give such a monster character levels, but it's quicker to just boost hp. It's barely noticeable to the player, especially when the monster is described as the meanest looking orc wearing a mass of grisly war trophies. Go with it, just remember when you call the orc 'pig-face' that he isn't going to be a chop-you're-dead kill. If your DM started with 2e and is now playing 4e, she may be trying to capture the deadly vibe of the earlier editions. To some folks (self included) who played the older versions, 4e is comparatively nerfed. Go with it. You've made it to at least level 5. You're misreading. she's not doing a standard encounter+extra hp, she's doing one monster+extra hp (aka, a really slow, dragged out, walkover, with 0.0000% chance of even being noticeably drained. Personally, in the circumstances, I would tell her to just skip the fights entirely, because they sound like a pure timewaste; you get in a fight= you win, skip the 20-30 minutes of "...and I hit it some more. Are we done yet?"
#19 crzyhawk Sep 30, 2012 20:12:59	I play the game to have fun.  if you aren't having fun, you shouldn't play pure and simple.  It sounds like the wrong campaign for you.
#20 kira123 Oct 01, 2012 0:55:03	hmm i think everything is normal. it doesn't matter how you play or what you play. its just your own style
#21 CorranHornIsAwesome Oct 01, 2012 18:14:51	hmm i think everything is normal. it doesn't matter how you play or what you play. its just your own style  Thanks for missing the issue entirely. It's obviously not his  style at all.
#22 Kishri Oct 01, 2012 23:03:54	I don't think your DM is a bad DM, but it is pretty clear, going by your post, that the DM's style is not to your liking. The first thing to do is to talk to her and be specific about what you want to see.  If she can't or won't accommodate you, and you really aren't having fun, then you would be better served by bowing out when she runs. On the lack of tiles and minis:  One thing I have noticed is that DMs who refuse to lay out or draw the combat for the players are doing the players a huge disservice, especially in 3e, 4e and Pathfinder.  The rules really do require that the players know exactly how they are positioned relative to each other and the opponents.  If the DM won't make such info available, the effect is one that often results in a player who is denied his/her options and actually gimps the character.  That is simply not fun for the player. As a DM, I prefer minis for another reason as well-- it speeds things up by stopping the unending queries of, "where am I now?"  "Where is that creature?"  Can I hit it with 'x'?" and so on.  If the DM in the OP is eschewing tiles, battlemats, and minis due to being lazy or wanting "to speed things up,"  odds are she is actually making life harder on herself, wasting more time, all the while angering her players (or at least some of them).  There are fights that don't require minis and a grid, like simple fights where each player gets an easy to defeat critter, but breaking out the minis and a grid is the best course of action for most battles in 3e, 4e and Pathfinder. If she insists on no grid and minis, direct her to AD&D (1e or 2e), or something like a story telling game.  She and her players will be much happier.
#23 merb101 Oct 02, 2012 15:46:08	Sometimes when I DM I find the players caught up in situations like yours at the market... especially if I don't have a major story idea going at the time. While everybody else is shopping, use that time as a charismatic bard to gather information. Try to use bardic knowledge on every item the characters buy. If they buy a sword, ask the DM if the sword had a previous owner. What happened to him or her? If they buy alchemical items... ask about the alchemist. Ask for details on what the items look like. Be specific. If they buy jewelry, ask where the gems came from. Ask about the jeweler. And as soon as the DM has something that sounds interesting... try to find out more information and drag the other players into it. That masterwork bow that the player buys may very well have belonged to the son of an important lord. How did it end up in this small town market? IF the DM is selling MAGIC... even better. Who is the creator of these items? Are they stolen? This works especially well if the items they are buying seem 'inappropriate' for the market. Jump on the opportunity to solve that 'mystery'. Make the task of finding out seem to the other players like the most important thing they have ever done. If you want to be a leader... give them something to follow. Yikes. Be careful. In theory this is fun, but that sort of thing usually bugs the heck out of me as a player, because neither the bard nor the DM do it with much regard to the overall game. Heck, shopping in general bugs me. Well, there was that cool shopping scene in The Lord of the Rings. Wait a minute, no there wasn't. Hehehe, that last bit made me laugh ;) I've actually struggled with finding an item balance in 4E, between found items and purchased items. I do believe both have a place in the game, but yeah the idea of "shopping" without it being an important part of the story or interaction bugs me sometimes. We tend to do a lot of "shopping" outside of the game. If it is a common item and they are in a city or reasonable town setting, I allow it to be purchased. I also don't have the players track individual wealth, just a group coffer. If they want their character to get a drink or meal at the bar, we all assume they have the money on hand to do so. I hate tracking my own finances in real life, much less tracking imaginary money in a game. However, I did take part in a short-lived campaign where accumulating wealth was an important aspect of what the characters were doing. That was pretty cool, but we were indentured servants trying to purchase our freedom, so every bit counted. Probably best saved for another thread.
#24 Centauri Oct 02, 2012 17:15:29	I've actually struggled with finding an item balance in 4E, between found items and purchased items. I do believe both have a place in the game, but yeah the idea of "shopping" without it being an important part of the story or interaction bugs me sometimes. We tend to do a lot of "shopping" outside of the game. If it is a common item and they are in a city or reasonable town setting, I allow it to be purchased. The quotes around "shopping" are important. I don't think the full potential for various means of item acquisition have ever been explored. People tend to seem to assume that if players are picking out items they want, then what's happening is their character going into a shop to find them. But it could be them dealing with the black market, or getting a gift from a patron, or having a item bestowed upon them by a guild or church. The money goes toward paying bribes, tithing, hosting, renting, etc.
#25 Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe Oct 03, 2012 17:41:40	She doesnt use tiles or miniatures or props for combat (meaning we just make our rolls in turn without any terrain, movement, or range concerns) and usually pits us against 1 mob with its HP increased about 400% and other stats intact. I've increased monster hp before as a simple way to make a monster a little harder to kill - more of a challenge. The leader of a group of orcs, for instance might have more hp than normal. I could take the time to give such a monster character levels, but it's quicker to just boost hp. It's barely noticeable to the player, especially when the monster is described as the meanest looking orc wearing a mass of grisly war trophies. Go with it, just remember when you call the orc 'pig-face' that he isn't going to be a chop-you're-dead kill. If your DM started with 2e and is now playing 4e, she may be trying to capture the deadly vibe of the earlier editions. To some folks (self included) who played the older versions, 4e is comparatively nerfed. Go with it. You've made it to at least level 5. You're misreading. she's not doing a standard encounter+extra hp, she's doing one monster+extra hp (aka, a really slow, dragged out, walkover, with 0.0000% chance of even being noticeably drained. Personally, in the circumstances, I would tell her to just skip the fights entirely, because they sound like a pure timewaste; you get in a fight= you win, skip the 20-30 minutes of "...and I hit it some more. Are we done yet?" I see what you're saying. I couldn't tell that it was a walkover. I had a walkover last night... 10 specters, but the DM had us playing some sort of dragonkind he made up for a one-shot game that was immune to all the attacks. I'm normally for playing everything out, but it was so easy, I simply said, "We kill the monsters and move on. Or we can roll the dice and see how long that takes"... He saw what I was seeing and said... "after killing the specters you realize you have reached your destination".
#26 guest1458177341 Oct 08, 2012 16:21:26	Objectively speaking, your DM is not a bad DM.  She's not railroading the plot, making frustrating NPCs that always escape, or Mary Sue NPCs who solve the problems while the PCs watch.  Players aren't sitting around with nothing to do.  And if your party spent 2 hours in town shopping, clearly some of the players were enjoying themselves.   That doesn't mean her style of game is something you enjoy, or something you SHOULD enjoy.  It's different than what you're used to.   In fact with her I'd almost suggest you move to something like FATE or another rules-light system.  D&D 4E is totally unsuited for the style of game she's running.  If she did that, everyone might find their enjoyment increased a lot.
#27 FlashbackJon Oct 08, 2012 16:36:34	I see what you're saying. I couldn't tell that it was a walkover. She also apparently told him the leader would be useless, and as such he's only used his heal once or twice.  So it's definitely not lethality she's going for... possibly banality?
#28 Sabin_Stargem Oct 08, 2012 20:25:24	If I remember rightly about how to make monsters dangerous, it is that they are supposed to do double the damage than what is found in Monster Manual 1 & 2, with half the HP.  This makes fights go quicker, but it also means that a monster could seriously mess people up in that time.  Be sure to tell your DM to not exclusively use solo-type monsters, as the beauty of 4th edition lies in the tactical possibilities on the battlefield.  Solos don't provide that unless the environment is suited towards that end. For example, let's take one of the bosses from the Witcher videogame.  It is an insectoid creature that is easily a solo-type monster, but it has a weakness to sound, or Sonic Damage.  There are a number of cast-iron oil tubs that are situated in the castle courtyard, which can be rung, which causes the monster to be disoriented.  This sort of thing encourages the player to use the environment around them to defeat monsters.   Dropping a portcullis gate onto the beastie could also work.  Solos should cause the players to start thinking about their situation, but simply monotonously trading blows is neither creative nor epic. In short, your DM should: *Use a wide variety of monster roles. *Apply their actions in a way that matches their ability, including tactical thinking. *Battlemaps are key to a good game of 4th Edition when it comes to combat.  If you don't have minis, then painted coins would work. *Alter the damage and health values of monsters to match what is recommended in Monster Manual 3. *Abandon the thought that 2nd Edition combat applies to 4th Edition.  The balance and design is completely different. Consider running a oneshot session of 4th Edition with her as one of the players, as that could demonstrate the differences between editions.  Sometimes, words are not sufficient evidence.
#29 mestewart3 Oct 10, 2012 20:13:25	Shes a terrible DM.  Not because of anything she's doing, just because of this: "she says the way she plays is the way Dungeons and Dragons is supposed to be played."  Anybody who decides that their way of playing is the only way of playing right needs to be shuned by the gaming community as a whole.
#30 LordOfWeasels Oct 10, 2012 20:14:33	Shes a terrible DM.  Not because of anything she's doing, just because of this: "she says the way she plays is the way Dungeons and Dragons is supposed to be played."  Anybody who decides that their way of playing is the only way of playing right needs to be shuned by the gaming community as a whole.  As long as you distinguish between "this is the only way" and "that way is WRONG", I'm with you. There are many right ways, and many wrong ways.
#31 warrl Oct 11, 2012 0:23:34	Shes a terrible DM.  Not because of anything she's doing, just because of this: "she says the way she plays is the way Dungeons and Dragons is supposed to be played."  Anybody who decides that their way of playing is the only way of playing right needs to be shuned by the gaming community as a whole.  As long as you distinguish between "this is the only way" and "that way is WRONG", I'm with you. There are many right ways, and many wrong ways. If everyone - including the DM - is having fun, then that's one of the right ways. If not, it's one of the wrong ways. However, sometimes the best fix is for one person who's not having fun to leave that game and possibly join another. Or maybe not join another. goblinscomic.com/tempts-fate-8/