Can you cast it on the same target before the first one is over? Effectively keeping the target dominated indefinitely?
But if they make a saving throw on the 2nd dominate person, does the 1st one in which they are still under stay on? Or is it dispelled?
You can, but they get another Will save to resist your domination. If they beat the will save then they break your domination over them for both the old spell and the new spell.
Basically they resist being dominated, it would make little sense if they resisted being dominated and yet are still dominated.
As per the rule of other duration spells, casting the same spell on a target doesn't stack, the new spell replaces the old spell. By casting Dominate Person on the target you are dispelling the old domination, thus if he makes the saving throw he is free.
The trick is to order them to allow the next spell you cast on them to affect them (effectively, tell them to be a Willing target of the spell, and as such they voluntarily fail the save), and thus deny them the save.
The caveat is that the target would have to be unaware of what spell is being cast - if they make their spellcraft check then they know what spell you are casting, and even a reasonable reading of "against their nature" would allow anyone who knows you're casting Dominate Person again on them to at least attempt to resist (with that +4 bonus to the save).
This makes it risky to utilize this method against spellcasters, but works perfectly fine against ignorant targets, as plenty of helpful spells have Save: Will (harmless) the target could confuse the new Dominate Person with.
You can, but they get another Will save to resist your domination. If they beat the will save then they break your domination over them for both the old spell and the new spell.
Basically they resist being dominated, it would make little sense if they resisted being dominated and yet are still dominated.
As per the rule of other duration spells, casting the same spell on a target doesn't stack, the new spell replaces the old spell. By casting Dominate Person on the target you are dispelling the old domination, thus if he makes the saving throw he is free.
Actually, I believe it would fall under the more specific "Multiple mental control effects" category. Both effects operate on the target at the same time and won't interfere as long as you don't give the subject orders that conflict with your own orders. (And for the overlapping duration, the subject might even have to make two Will saves in order to disobey you. That might vary from one DM to the next, though.)
Casting a new spell on a target doesn't dispel the first spell unless it says so in either spell's description (like how Daylight dispels Darkness). And in fact, even in the "Same effect with different results" rule, it specifically says that the earlier instances of the effect aren't dispelled, only rendered irrelevant.
However in the case of Dominate person, you don't just get a will save to resist the spell being cast, you also get will saves on any number of circumstances throughout the duration. Such as being forced to harm oneself, go against one's nature etc.
If a subject makes a Will save vs domination then he should be able to shake off the old domination spell as well (provided he makes the save)
Of course a clever person could come up with ways to reduce their dominated targets will saves, thus making the circumstances favourable that the spell will land.
The caveat is that the target would have to be unaware of what spell is being cast - if they make their spellcraft check then they know what spell you are casting, and even a reasonable reading of "against their nature" would allow anyone who knows you're casting Dominate Person again on them to at least attempt to resist (with that +4 bonus to the save).
This makes it risky to utilize this method against spellcasters, but works perfectly fine against ignorant targets, as plenty of helpful spells have Save: Will (harmless) the target could confuse the new Dominate Person with.
Or you could just order them not to identify your spells.
If you're dominated, and the caster wants to keep you dominated, you're as good as dead.
Or you could just order them not to identify your spells.
If you're dominated, and the caster wants to keep you dominated, you're as good as dead.
Questionable, since identifying spells being cast on a person can be integral to survival (and thus might qualify for the 'against their nature' clause). It's different if the target is incapable of identifying spells in any cast - at that point it has no reason to NOT accept what could very well be a buff spell, which is a perfectly reasonable effect to use on an "ally" like a dominated foe.
I just wish that freaking clause was stated more clearly and concretely. It's far too open to interpretation.
Or you could just order them not to identify your spells.
If you're dominated, and the caster wants to keep you dominated, you're as good as dead.
This would depend on the circumstances, if it goes against the character's nature to allow you to cast a spell on them like this then they get a Will Save.
Specifically benificial spells don't need to voluntarily accepted. Casting Cure Light Wounds doesn't require a saving throw unless you specifically choose to resist it.
"Volunteering to accept" the spell means normally you resist that spell, which means that it is a Harmful spell, therefore it would be an action against their nature, and so a saving throw would be granted and "obviously self-destructive" ordersare not carried out"
Teling them a lie about the nature of the spell being cast on them might work, but only if you make a successful Bluff against their Sense Motive and assuming that they don't know better. Saying that it is a disguise spell as suggested might seem to work, but again if it was benificial then an ally wouldn't need to ask you to "voluntarily accept" the spell.
In fact simply asking them to voluntarily accept a spell without resisting it could be enough to warrent a saving throw without you even casting, which would mean now they get 2 saving throws to break the domination.
In fact simply asking them to voluntarily accept a spell without resisting it could be enough to warrent a saving throw without you even casting, which would mean now they get 2 saving throws to break the domination.
The key is that there are PLENTY of beneficial effects that have a "Save: Will negates (harmless)" entry. Unless the dominated character is somehow able to identify spells as they are cast (that is, anyone with enough Spellcraft), there'd be no distinction the dominated character would be aware of.
Perhaps a Bluff check might be called for, depending on the situation... but there's certainly leeway for a clever caster to trick a dominated Bigt Stupid Fighter into accepting a second Dominate effect, at least as far as I've read.
I rarely play casters so this may be a stupid suggestion but aren't there de-buffs that effect will saves? why not just keepon hammering them with those as a method for causing constant failures at will saves?
Meh. That is the expensive way of doing it. I prefer using Bestow Greater Curse to Dominate anyway (more effective, and very abusable).
Commanding them to not resist a spell would force them to make a will save IMO.