Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 OneShotPaddy Jul 10, 2014 17:02:26	Hey folks, So I've played in a few campaigns with just as many DM's and I usually get the same reactions from them when I talk about what I want to do: summon lots of permanent undead, experiement on corpses, etc. All the freaky things a necromancer is supposed to do. So when I was a little more green I made a Drow wizard and tried to make this sort of thing happen with my DM's help/indulgence. However, a later DM showed me the Dread Necromancer class. I only played it in a single campaign but it seemed about right. Does anyone know of better ways to handle necromancer in game from either the player perspective or the DM's? Maybe even a good build suggestion for the Dread Necromancer? Is there a better class? Are there any benefits that can be derived from corpse-looting or experimenting? Such as physically creating the undead from the corpses, taking longer but not requiring as many spells? Also, I would prefer the character not be too narrow in skills/scope. I still use this as my "talker" character and would still like to have some of the Wizard options (golems for example) At the moment I'm working with 3.5 and am not too excited about learning the newer versions. But I wont' turn down information about this if it's from the new versions.   Thanks in advance.
#2 Krusk Jul 11, 2014 13:36:52	Dread necro is the best class for having a pile of undead buddies. The corpse crafter line of feats goes a long way.    Dread Necro is either 9 levels long and then prestige class, or 20 levels long. Depending on when your game starts. If level 10,11 you probably should find a prestige class. If level 18, 19, stick it out.
#3 OneShotPaddy Jul 12, 2014 23:58:26	Thanks Krusk, I'm about to start a new campaign so I think I may pick this one again. Any thoughts on dual-classing this with rogue to get the extra skills and feats for defense, etc?
#4 Krusk Jul 13, 2014 8:36:48	As a full caster, Multi-classing (2e was dual classing, 3.X is multiclassing) is generally a bad idea. Your spells get weaker, and thats really your #1 feature. Rogue won't give you any feats, and a dread necromancer is already tougher than a rogue. A level of rogue gets you 6 skill points, and thats not really worth it at all.    Dread Necros get light armor just like a rogue, and while their AC is lower, they get Lich Body giving DR 2 at level 2. They also get unlimited free healing at the cost of a single feat. (Tomb Tained Soul).  This comes online at level 1, giving 1d8+1 HP per standard action spent.  This means you are probably a lot more durable than the parties barbarian or fighter, let alone rogue.   The Revised Necromancer's Handbook has these build suggestions you should listen to.
#5 thespaceinvader Jul 19, 2014 2:43:40	Is it just me, or did they mung up the post ordering in this forum when they changed over to the new 5e forums?  I keep seeing new post listings, but there's never a new thread...
#6 malisteen Aug 12, 2014 6:56:00	Dread Necro is the best class for this concept, though Necromancer Wizard or a Cleric with the proper domains (not Death, but perhaps Necromancy or Deathbound) can also perform a similar role, while beeing more powerful overall, due in large part to superior versatility of their spell lists.   Still, I like Dread Necromancer.  Straight DN 20 isn't terrible.  Theoretically it's better to jump ship into an appropriate PrC, but there really aren't many that are ideal fits for the class, and you can pick up on a lot of versatility from advanced learning spell selections if you stick it out.   Then again, your DM might allow you to use the 'spell research' rules to let you add thematically appropriate spells to your spell list even without advanced learning, and if that's the case than you really probably want to get out by the time you've got your familiar.   In terms of animating dead, in a normal game show some restraint.  Honestly, a plain wizard on their own can animate way more undead than is reasonable for a regular campaign, so the extra control pool you gain as a dread necromancer, while fluffy, isn't exactly useful, and can in fact be counter productive.  A bunch of extra combatants around can really trivialize a game, and worse they can bog it down to the point where it becomes outright unfun for everyone else at the table.  I find the best thing to do is to animate one servant for each of your allies, designed to support their needs - a fast flanking buddy for the rogue, a flying mount for the archer, a burly guard for the wizard, etc.  And then order each of those servants to follow the commands of the ally they're paired to.  Then make one or two appropriate servants for yourself.  That way combat doesn't get bogged down by you taking a million years on your turn, instead everyone gets their own turn plus a pet's turn.  And if your allies can see how they directly benefit from your... hobbies, then they're far less likely to object to them.   Of course, if your campaign ever gets into a mass battle phase, then the sky's the limit.  Animate tons of mindless 20HD monstrosities, and control them with command undead (the spell).  Summon some shadows, have them kill some enemies, then the enemies turn into shadows that you can take control of with rebuke/command.  The summoned shadows leave, and now you have permanent shadows which in turn can kill more enemies which turn into more permanent shadows that are controlld by the shadows you control.  Kill some enemies with negative levels and rebuke the wights that rise from heir corpses to do the same thing with them.  Animate tons of undead monsters and corpses with your regular pool, and then make them intelligent via awaken undead from advanced learning.  Make sure you have the destruction retribution feat, so any of your undead once killed explode with a negative energy blast which hurts enemies and heals other undead.  Stuff the corpses of skeletal and zombie giants with uncontrolled zombie rats for just this purpose, knowing that pesky enemy cleris will find their turn attempts absorbed by the rats, which then explode, healing the giants they were trying to rebuke in the first place.  Consider a two level dip of Pale Master to get cost-free animate dead if in mid levels (if at high levels, skip it, and just wait it out for the essentially cost free plague of undead once you can cast ninth level spells).  Grab Leadership and Undead Leadership for a couple cohorts and a mess of followers which may have their on control pools (remember, any third level wizard follower or fourth level sorcerer follower or third level cleric follower with the necromancy domain from Eberron can cast command undead the spell to take control of a 20+ HD skeleton or dragon zombie that you create yourself and allow to go uncontrolled.  In fact they can control as many as their caster level multiplied by their spell slots per day spent on command undead).   But again, that's only for mass battle campaigns.  Going around with an undead army is exactly the opposite of useful and convenient in a regular game.  In a regualar game, again, just a few undead, one for each party member to control, plus maybe a zombie dragon kept in a portable hole to use as a party bus.  Skip destruction retribution and corpse crafter because the latter is redundant and the former will actually be counter productive with living allies around.  Instead focus on metamagic feats enhancing your targeted spells, and other feats reducing the cost of such, so you can start throwing around reached, maximized shivering touches or twinned, empowered enervations; plus spellcasting staple feats like spell penetration and improved spell penetration and versatile spellcaster.
#7 baldhermit Aug 12, 2014 7:34:07	Dread Necro indeed
#8 malisteen Aug 12, 2014 8:30:54	If it's on page one, then it's not thread necromancy, no matter how old the post is.