Duskblade to Sorcerer spell progression? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Duskblade to Sorcerer spell progression?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
orodreth91
May 25, 2008 21:19:43 Okay, this is kinda weird it may be a newbie question or not even be possible but i just thought i'd ask. I was trying to create a reasonable sorcerer/fighter character, so, I figured I would take 4-5 levels of dusk blade for the medium armor no spell failure trait, then take a level of sorcerer and use it as my primary spell casting class for when I took Abjurant Champion for a larger variety of spells. Me and my DM are confused about how spell progression would work from then on in terms of where my spell progression would start, from the 2nd level spells the duskblade has gained or from the newly created sorcerer's cantrips. I appreciate the help and apologize for any inconviences.
#2
mercurius
May 25, 2008 21:58:30 The casting progression of Abjurant Champion requires you to specify which casting class you are applying it to. If you chose sorcerer, you add your sorcerer and Abjurant Champion levels together to determine your effective sorcerer level for purposes of spells known and per day. Considering Abjurant Champ is only 5 levels long, you'd wind up with a sorcerer level of 6th (3rd level spells, 1 3rd level spell known) at best when you come out the other side of the PrC. And the Duskblade's armored casting ability only applies to Duskblade casting. It won't help your sorcerer spells ignore Arcane Spell failure.
#3
Fireclave
May 25, 2008 22:23:58 Spells from different classes stack separately. Let's say your character was a Sorcerer 5/Duskblade 5. Your character would be level ten. He would cast sorcerer spells as a 5th level sorcerer, and duskblade spells as a 5th level duskblade.

Now let's add 5 levels of Abjurant Champion to that. Like many spellcasting prestige classes, levels of Abjurant Champion can stack with levels of another casting class. However, each time you take a level of Abjurant Champion, if you have more than one class that could qualify for the increase, you must choose one, and only one, spell progression to increase. You could, for example, increase your Sorcerer casting progression on levels one, two, and three of Abjurant Champion, and your Duskblade levels at levels four and five. In that case, your Sorcerer 5/Duskblade5/Abjurant Champion 5 would cast Sorcerer spells as a 8th level sorcerer and Duskblade spells as a 7th level Duskblade.

However, I do not advice combining Sorcerer and Duskblade together. First, you always want to avoid losing caster levels whenever possible. If you want to primarily cast as a sorcerer, 4-5 levels of Duskblade are a waste. Medium Armor is not worth the spells you are going to miss out on, not to mention slowing you down and only giving you a +2 increase in AC over the much better of alternative of a Mithal Chain Shirt with the Twilight property (PH2; pg21), which requires absolutely no armor proficiency to use and imposes no arcane spell failure penalty. Then, if defense is a concern for you, you can use those spells levels you didn't lose out on to learn some more effective defensive spells like Greater Mirror Image (PH2, 120). Not only that, but I'm pretty sure that the Duskblade's Armor Mage ability only applies to Duskblades spells.

For a more melee oriented sorcerer, you could try to either hold out with a straight sorcerer until you can meet the prereqs for Abjurant Champion or try adding a level of a full Bab class like Fighter (for the bonus feat), then levels in Eldritch Knight to qualify for Abjurant Champion faster.

Alternatively, if you want a simpler option, you could as your DM to let your play a Battle Sorcerer. You lose out on a spell per day and spell known per level (ouch!), but you get a much larger HD, good Bab, ability to cast in light armor, and proficiency with a one-handed martial weapon (which will help you qualify for Abjurant Champion).
#4
orodreth91
May 25, 2008 22:24:13 Okay that resolves my problem, thanks much. Just to ask are there any suggestion to create a character that could gain base attack as a fighter and a little spell-casting so I just break off and specialize in spell-casting and maybe acquire at least level 8 spells before level 20.
#5
Fireclave
May 25, 2008 23:14:09
Okay that resolves my problem, thanks much. Just to ask are there any suggestion to create a character that could gain base attack as a fighter and a little spell-casting so I just break off and specialize in spell-casting and maybe acquire at least level 8 spells before level 20.

You're simply not going to get pure fighter Bab and high level spells, though you can get so close that it doesn't matter.

Sorcerer 5/ [Full-casting PRC of your choice] 10/ Abjurant Champion 5 - You get 15 Bab and full casting. You won't have as many iterative attacks as some builds can provide, but you can make that up your powerful spellcasting, and your Bab will be the same as the cleric, druid, and psychic warrior, which is still pretty darn good.

Battle Sorcerer 15 / Abjurant Champion 5: +16 Bab (which means 4 iterative attacks) and, as above, you have full casting progression. Being a battle sorcerer, you still lose out on alot of spells known and spells per day, unlike the above build, you can realize the merger of spell and sword from the get-go instead of waiting until you meet the fairly high Bab prereqs for Abjurant Champion or doing lots of fancy multiclassing.

Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 4/ Eldritch Knight 10/ Abjurant Champion 5: You get 18Bab, cast as a 18th level sorcerer and still have access to 9th level spells. You could replace the level of fighter with any class that would grant you proficiency with all martial weapons, such as Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian (for access to the pouncing variant), Psychic Warrior (for access to psionic feats), ect.

[Edit: Fixed] Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 3/ Eldritch Knight 10/ Abjurant Champion 5: Almost identical to the above. Two levels of paladin gives you Divine Grace, which stacks nicely with Sorcerer casting.
#6
orodreth91
May 26, 2008 0:18:56 wow, i can't explain how thankful i am for your input, i'll be sure to talk to my DM about the battle sorcerer and see how things progress from there. honestly i wish forums had more people as helpful as you are.

thanks again.
#7
drmorganes
May 26, 2008 8:45:31
Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 5/ Eldritch Knight 10/ Abjurant Champion 5: Almost identical to the above. Two levels of paladin gives you Divine Grace, which stacks nicely with Sorcerer casting.

Be aware that this is an epic level character. Pal 2 + Sor 5 + Eld Knight 10 + Abj Champ 5 = 22 character levels.
#8
Fireclave
May 26, 2008 16:31:06
Be aware that this is an epic level character. Pal 2 + Sor 5 + Eld Knight 10 + Abj Champ 5 = 22 character levels.

Oops! Did the math in reverse. Fixed now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 orodreth91 May 25, 2008 21:19:43	Okay, this is kinda weird it may be a newbie question or not even be possible but i just thought i'd ask. I was trying to create a reasonable sorcerer/fighter character, so, I figured I would take 4-5 levels of dusk blade for the medium armor no spell failure trait, then take a level of sorcerer and use it as my primary spell casting class for when I took Abjurant Champion for a larger variety of spells. Me and my DM are confused about how spell progression would work from then on in terms of where my spell progression would start, from the 2nd level spells the duskblade has gained or from the newly created sorcerer's cantrips. I appreciate the help and apologize for any inconviences.
#2 mercurius May 25, 2008 21:58:30	The casting progression of Abjurant Champion requires you to specify which casting class you are applying it to. If you chose sorcerer, you add your sorcerer and Abjurant Champion levels together to determine your effective sorcerer level for purposes of spells known and per day. Considering Abjurant Champ is only 5 levels long, you'd wind up with a sorcerer level of 6th (3rd level spells, 1 3rd level spell known) at best when you come out the other side of the PrC. And the Duskblade's armored casting ability only applies to Duskblade casting. It won't help your sorcerer spells ignore Arcane Spell failure.
#3 Fireclave May 25, 2008 22:23:58	Spells from different classes stack separately. Let's say your character was a Sorcerer 5/Duskblade 5. Your character would be level ten. He would cast sorcerer spells as a 5th level sorcerer, and duskblade spells as a 5th level duskblade. Now let's add 5 levels of Abjurant Champion to that. Like many spellcasting prestige classes, levels of Abjurant Champion can stack with levels of another casting class. However, each time you take a level of Abjurant Champion, if you have more than one class that could qualify for the increase, you must choose one, and only one, spell progression to increase. You could, for example, increase your Sorcerer casting progression on levels one, two, and three of Abjurant Champion, and your Duskblade levels at levels four and five. In that case, your Sorcerer 5/Duskblade5/Abjurant Champion 5 would cast Sorcerer spells as a 8th level sorcerer and Duskblade spells as a 7th level Duskblade. However, I do not advice combining Sorcerer and Duskblade together. First, you always want to avoid losing caster levels whenever possible. If you want to primarily cast as a sorcerer, 4-5 levels of Duskblade are a waste. Medium Armor is not worth the spells you are going to miss out on, not to mention slowing you down and only giving you a +2 increase in AC over the much better of alternative of a Mithal Chain Shirt with the Twilight property (PH2; pg21), which requires absolutely no armor proficiency to use and imposes no arcane spell failure penalty. Then, if defense is a concern for you, you can use those spells levels you didn't lose out on to learn some more effective defensive spells like Greater Mirror Image (PH2, 120). Not only that, but I'm pretty sure that the Duskblade's Armor Mage ability only applies to Duskblades spells. For a more melee oriented sorcerer, you could try to either hold out with a straight sorcerer until you can meet the prereqs for Abjurant Champion or try adding a level of a full Bab class like Fighter (for the bonus feat), then levels in Eldritch Knight to qualify for Abjurant Champion faster. Alternatively, if you want a simpler option, you could as your DM to let your play a Battle Sorcerer. You lose out on a spell per day and spell known per level (ouch!), but you get a much larger HD, good Bab, ability to cast in light armor, and proficiency with a one-handed martial weapon (which will help you qualify for Abjurant Champion).
#4 orodreth91 May 25, 2008 22:24:13	Okay that resolves my problem, thanks much. Just to ask are there any suggestion to create a character that could gain base attack as a fighter and a little spell-casting so I just break off and specialize in spell-casting and maybe acquire at least level 8 spells before level 20.
#5 Fireclave May 25, 2008 23:14:09	Okay that resolves my problem, thanks much. Just to ask are there any suggestion to create a character that could gain base attack as a fighter and a little spell-casting so I just break off and specialize in spell-casting and maybe acquire at least level 8 spells before level 20. You're simply not going to get pure fighter Bab and high level spells, though you can get so close that it doesn't matter. Sorcerer 5/ [Full-casting PRC of your choice] 10/ Abjurant Champion 5 - You get 15 Bab and full casting. You won't have as many iterative attacks as some builds can provide, but you can make that up your powerful spellcasting, and your Bab will be the same as the cleric, druid, and psychic warrior, which is still pretty darn good. Battle Sorcerer 15 / Abjurant Champion 5: +16 Bab (which means 4 iterative attacks) and, as above, you have full casting progression. Being a battle sorcerer, you still lose out on alot of spells known and spells per day, unlike the above build, you can realize the merger of spell and sword from the get-go instead of waiting until you meet the fairly high Bab prereqs for Abjurant Champion or doing lots of fancy multiclassing. Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 4/ Eldritch Knight 10/ Abjurant Champion 5: You get 18Bab, cast as a 18th level sorcerer and still have access to 9th level spells. You could replace the level of fighter with any class that would grant you proficiency with all martial weapons, such as Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian (for access to the pouncing variant), Psychic Warrior (for access to psionic feats), ect. [Edit: Fixed] Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 3/ Eldritch Knight 10/ Abjurant Champion 5: Almost identical to the above. Two levels of paladin gives you Divine Grace, which stacks nicely with Sorcerer casting.
#6 orodreth91 May 26, 2008 0:18:56	wow, i can't explain how thankful i am for your input, i'll be sure to talk to my DM about the battle sorcerer and see how things progress from there. honestly i wish forums had more people as helpful as you are. thanks again.
#7 drmorganes May 26, 2008 8:45:31	Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 5/ Eldritch Knight 10/ Abjurant Champion 5: Almost identical to the above. Two levels of paladin gives you Divine Grace, which stacks nicely with Sorcerer casting. Be aware that this is an epic level character. Pal 2 + Sor 5 + Eld Knight 10 + Abj Champ 5 = 22 character levels.
#8 Fireclave May 26, 2008 16:31:06	Be aware that this is an epic level character. Pal 2 + Sor 5 + Eld Knight 10 + Abj Champ 5 = 22 character levels. Oops! Did the math in reverse. Fixed now.