Educating fellow player - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Educating fellow player

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
arturius1
Aug 04, 2009 10:42:01 I've been playing D&D for seven years now (mostly 3.5 but have dipped my toes into 4E a few times) and feel I have a good understanding of the game, role-playing, and (depending on my DM) optimization. I'm currently involved in three games, one of which I DM. In the other two is a player who seems my complete opposite. He has almost no grasp on the rules, can't role-play to save his life (some good RP could've saved a few of his characters), and does not even attempt to optimize. But the kicker is he's been playing for a long while too.

A few examples of his ineptitude:
-Almost always plays warlocks, but is constantly reminded how to make ranged attacks and SR checks.
-Currently playing a sorc in one game, and we just noticed he's been using a chain shirt and had no idea what Arcane Spell Failure was.
-Previously played a mid-level cleric who'd prep all his 2nd level spells with Hide From Undead in an undead-light game.
-Can't seperate his character from himself. If something bad happens to his character, he takes it personally.
-Can't even seperate good from evil. When called on performing evil acts with a good character, responds with "I don't care".

I can go on, but those are sufficient. I outright refuse to DM for him, but he has always been a player in other campaigns because of the lack of players. His shenanigans slow game-play down or get party members killed. Since the DMs won't drop him, I thought fully versing him in the rules and engaging him personally in RP might turn him around. However, I don't want to sound preachy when talking rules to him, and the only way I can think to get RP out of him is to kill one of his characters. I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.
#2
rav514
Aug 04, 2009 11:14:04 Like everyone else in life, he has to WANT TO LEARN about the rules and his classes or he wont. If he does, lend him your books, if he doesnt, check his sheet till he does or have the dm do it.
#3
pskought
Aug 04, 2009 11:58:25 The first question that pops to mind is: Why do you think he continues to play? That is to say: how is this fun for him?
#4
turbowombat
Aug 04, 2009 17:51:18
The first question that pops to mind is: Why do you think he continues to play? That is to say: how is this fun for him?

yeah seriously. Clearly it must be though or he wouldn't keep doing it. I think its fun for him because he doesn't feel a need to care about it and doesn't understand that it brings everyone else down. This may not be the most tactful method, but I try to get people like this to see that others in their groups truly care by constantly auditing their characters. Any time anything seems even the slightest bit off you just audit his character sheet, correct things then comprehensively explain it to him correctly. Ideally he'll think to himself "well this is no fun if I have to play by the rules" and quit, or in a more story-book world he'd realize "hey everyone else here likes it better when I play by the rules." and cooperate.
#5
humanmind
Aug 04, 2009 22:53:17 How do the other players and DM feel about this? I know you said the DM won't drop him, but does he and the other players find this as disruptive as you.

If so, then all of you should talk with this person and discuss how to improve his game experience. If not then maybe you should try to ignore this behavior or leave the group.

hope this helps
#6
arturius1
Aug 05, 2009 9:13:44
The first question that pops to mind is: Why do you think he continues to play? That is to say: how is this fun for him?

Killing stuff. That's all he enjoys. And his characters are not too descriminate about who gets killed. And, yes, the other players are just as frustrated and consider him a lost cause.
#7
chaosturtle
Aug 05, 2009 11:18:13 Then you and the players should have a heart to heart with him, if that still doesn't work...have a heart to heart with a dm and explain how none of you are having fun anymore. If that still doesn't do anything and it turns into him having fun and you guys aren't...*shrugs* leaving seems like the only viable option.
#8
williamtanner
Aug 05, 2009 11:35:44 Introduce him to World of Warcraft. You'll never hear from him again. His lust for mindless slaughter will be nurtured ad nauseum.

Seriously.
#9
arturius1
Aug 06, 2009 5:27:27 He played WoW before D&D
#10
ravenharm
Aug 06, 2009 7:17:56 its a big step for you to want to step in, take time out of you day to teach him the finer points of gaming. its also somthing he might not see as benificial. he might even take it as an insult.

force-blunt-trauma-honesty is the only thing that can work here. and the dm must be involved. in fact the whole group should be involved, it shouldn't by a lynching, but communication is key. worst case scenario, you lose him as a player, and judging from what you say here it may not be a bad thing. best case scenario although highly unlikely, he will relise and appreciate the thought of wanting to make him a better player, introducing him to a whole other aspect of the game. he might even stop to say "thank you"

but i doubt it. ;)
#11
doppelganger
Aug 06, 2009 9:42:46 Talk to him outside the game and explain your point of view.

I know that you have refused to run a game with him in it, but could you try DMing for him with a scenario that requires roleplaying to solving rather than combat/killing things? Give him some task that violence either cannot solve or will make worse (or both), but careful thinking and clever use of non combat abilities will work. Maybe have some NPCs show up and give him a little hero worship over some minor good thing that he has done (even if he did it by accident/unintended consequences) and tell other NPCs around town how great he is.

In my experience, most kill-only players will lighten up and interact (even it only slightly) when NPCs stroke their egos. They will also react violently when some outside party injures or threatens to injure their fans.

With regard to following all the rules that you want him to follow, if you are DMing him you can have him sit next to you so that you can watch what he does/read his character sheet and offer minor corrections from time to time.
#12
Pundrake_the_Mad
Aug 06, 2009 17:48:18
He played WoW before D&D

Always a serious warning sign. Last time I had a computer gamer in one of my campaigns, I had to run him off before we could get anything done. He was just like the guy you're describing, if not worse. Fortunately, I convinced him early on that his style of play didn't fit the campaign I was running. He was not missed.

I'm not saying I'll never give a computer gamer a chance at my table, but I won't expect much from them either. Without gore splashing all over their giant monitor, and all those wicked cool sound effects, it's hard to hold their attention for more than thirty seconds unless they get to kill something.

PtM
#13
strand0
Aug 16, 2009 5:13:02 There HAS to be SOMEONE else to play with. Someone OLDer than you would normally ask. Someone YOUNGer than you would normally ask. Brother, sister, uncle, aunt, or someone from school you don't even know! Put up notices at the game store or the local supermarket!
I mean come on... they could NOT be worse than this guy!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arturius1 Aug 04, 2009 10:42:01	I've been playing D&D for seven years now (mostly 3.5 but have dipped my toes into 4E a few times) and feel I have a good understanding of the game, role-playing, and (depending on my DM) optimization. I'm currently involved in three games, one of which I DM. In the other two is a player who seems my complete opposite. He has almost no grasp on the rules, can't role-play to save his life (some good RP could've saved a few of his characters), and does not even attempt to optimize. But the kicker is he's been playing for a long while too. A few examples of his ineptitude: -Almost always plays warlocks, but is constantly reminded how to make ranged attacks and SR checks. -Currently playing a sorc in one game, and we just noticed he's been using a chain shirt and had no idea what Arcane Spell Failure was. -Previously played a mid-level cleric who'd prep all his 2nd level spells with Hide From Undead in an undead-light game. -Can't seperate his character from himself. If something bad happens to his character, he takes it personally. -Can't even seperate good from evil. When called on performing evil acts with a good character, responds with "I don't care". I can go on, but those are sufficient. I outright refuse to DM for him, but he has always been a player in other campaigns because of the lack of players. His shenanigans slow game-play down or get party members killed. Since the DMs won't drop him, I thought fully versing him in the rules and engaging him personally in RP might turn him around. However, I don't want to sound preachy when talking rules to him, and the only way I can think to get RP out of him is to kill one of his characters. I'd appreciate any helpful suggestions.
#2 rav514 Aug 04, 2009 11:14:04	Like everyone else in life, he has to WANT TO LEARN about the rules and his classes or he wont. If he does, lend him your books, if he doesnt, check his sheet till he does or have the dm do it.
#3 pskought Aug 04, 2009 11:58:25	The first question that pops to mind is: Why do you think he continues to play? That is to say: how is this fun for him?
#4 turbowombat Aug 04, 2009 17:51:18	The first question that pops to mind is: Why do you think he continues to play? That is to say: how is this fun for him? yeah seriously. Clearly it must be though or he wouldn't keep doing it. I think its fun for him because he doesn't feel a need to care about it and doesn't understand that it brings everyone else down. This may not be the most tactful method, but I try to get people like this to see that others in their groups truly care by constantly auditing their characters. Any time anything seems even the slightest bit off you just audit his character sheet, correct things then comprehensively explain it to him correctly. Ideally he'll think to himself "well this is no fun if I have to play by the rules" and quit, or in a more story-book world he'd realize "hey everyone else here likes it better when I play by the rules." and cooperate.
#5 humanmind Aug 04, 2009 22:53:17	How do the other players and DM feel about this? I know you said the DM won't drop him, but does he and the other players find this as disruptive as you. If so, then all of you should talk with this person and discuss how to improve his game experience. If not then maybe you should try to ignore this behavior or leave the group. hope this helps
#6 arturius1 Aug 05, 2009 9:13:44	The first question that pops to mind is: Why do you think he continues to play? That is to say: how is this fun for him? Killing stuff. That's all he enjoys. And his characters are not too descriminate about who gets killed. And, yes, the other players are just as frustrated and consider him a lost cause.
#7 chaosturtle Aug 05, 2009 11:18:13	Then you and the players should have a heart to heart with him, if that still doesn't work...have a heart to heart with a dm and explain how none of you are having fun anymore. If that still doesn't do anything and it turns into him having fun and you guys aren't...shrugs leaving seems like the only viable option.
#8 williamtanner Aug 05, 2009 11:35:44	Introduce him to World of Warcraft. You'll never hear from him again. His lust for mindless slaughter will be nurtured ad nauseum. Seriously.
#9 arturius1 Aug 06, 2009 5:27:27	He played WoW before D&D
#10 ravenharm Aug 06, 2009 7:17:56	its a big step for you to want to step in, take time out of you day to teach him the finer points of gaming. its also somthing he might not see as benificial. he might even take it as an insult. force-blunt-trauma-honesty is the only thing that can work here. and the dm must be involved. in fact the whole group should be involved, it shouldn't by a lynching, but communication is key. worst case scenario, you lose him as a player, and judging from what you say here it may not be a bad thing. best case scenario although highly unlikely, he will relise and appreciate the thought of wanting to make him a better player, introducing him to a whole other aspect of the game. he might even stop to say "thank you" but i doubt it. ;)
#11 doppelganger Aug 06, 2009 9:42:46	Talk to him outside the game and explain your point of view. I know that you have refused to run a game with him in it, but could you try DMing for him with a scenario that requires roleplaying to solving rather than combat/killing things? Give him some task that violence either cannot solve or will make worse (or both), but careful thinking and clever use of non combat abilities will work. Maybe have some NPCs show up and give him a little hero worship over some minor good thing that he has done (even if he did it by accident/unintended consequences) and tell other NPCs around town how great he is. In my experience, most kill-only players will lighten up and interact (even it only slightly) when NPCs stroke their egos. They will also react violently when some outside party injures or threatens to injure their fans. With regard to following all the rules that you want him to follow, if you are DMing him you can have him sit next to you so that you can watch what he does/read his character sheet and offer minor corrections from time to time.
#12 Pundrake_the_Mad Aug 06, 2009 17:48:18	He played WoW before D&D Always a serious warning sign. Last time I had a computer gamer in one of my campaigns, I had to run him off before we could get anything done. He was just like the guy you're describing, if not worse. Fortunately, I convinced him early on that his style of play didn't fit the campaign I was running. He was not missed. I'm not saying I'll never give a computer gamer a chance at my table, but I won't expect much from them either. Without gore splashing all over their giant monitor, and all those wicked cool sound effects, it's hard to hold their attention for more than thirty seconds unless they get to kill something. PtM
#13 strand0 Aug 16, 2009 5:13:02	There HAS to be SOMEONE else to play with. Someone OLDer than you would normally ask. Someone YOUNGer than you would normally ask. Brother, sister, uncle, aunt, or someone from school you don't even know! Put up notices at the game store or the local supermarket! I mean come on... they could NOT be worse than this guy!