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Erinyes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
boundlesslimits
Apr 13, 2008 15:52:16 Hey ya all,

well I am currently playing a warlock, and got hands on a Erinyes.
(which the party recently killed) and i am currently in the status "level up".
i have been thinking about taking the charm invocation, resurrecting the Erinyes through the clerk. and charming her.
now the problem is that she has the ability to teleport (grapple didn’t seemed to work on the second one) and probably has the possibility to charm as well.

binding her to a rock with 22 chains and 35 ropes wont help I’m afraid.

now for my question,
is the any way to get her charmed, without failure...
which means, negating her charm SLA's and teleport SLA's without losing the ability to charm her.

thanks in advance
boundlesslimits
#2
iserith
Apr 13, 2008 15:58:26 You can't easily resurrect outsiders. It requires limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection. Check the Monster Manual, page 313, for the outsider subtype. (I'm assuming you don't have access to those spells.)
#3
boundlesslimits
Apr 13, 2008 16:11:23
You can't easily resurrect outsiders. It requires limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection. Check the Monster Manual, page 313, for the outsider subtype. (I'm assuming you don't have access to those spells.)

Ack,

Wel there is a second one but she got away with that teleportation SLA,
Then im hoping to run into that one again.

Still I need to find a way to block her SLA’s then.
#4
iserith
Apr 13, 2008 16:20:31
Ack,

Wel there is a second one but she got away with that teleportation SLA,
Then im hoping to run into that one again.

Still I need to find a way to block her SLA’s then.

Dimensional anchor is a spell used to defeat teleport.

To avoid her charm spells, you need to boost your Will save such as through an owl's wisdom spell. If you have a 9th-level cleric, try spell resistance.
#5
Iry
Apr 13, 2008 19:13:13 Unless your party is slaveringly evil, I don't think this is going to work out for you as well as you hoped.

Once you've charmed the Erinyes what are you planning to ask her to do? What if she refuses? Friendship only goes so far, and she's neither obligated to be too friendly to the rest of your party (though you could ask), but certainly not obligated to not flay, murder, and torture people right before your eyes.

You can't stop her from being a horribly evil person, and trying to do anything more than convince her to do it out of your sight is going to be an affront to her morality.
#6
Great_Zamboni
Apr 14, 2008 19:08:20 See if you can't hit her (the live one) with a Bestow Curse targeting her Wisdom, then charm her and offer her this lovely helm (of opposite alignment). If you have the Bestow Curse invocation or a caster who can cast it, you should be able to craft the helm. Once she's Chaotic Good -and- friendly towards you, most of your problems should be solved.
#7
tobias_bluesummers
Apr 14, 2008 19:27:31
You can't easily resurrect outsiders. It requires limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection. Check the Monster Manual, page 313, for the outsider subtype. (I'm assuming you don't have access to those spells.)

Well there is always the "Revive Outsider" spell from the Spell Compendium.

As to trying to get past her spell resistance and teleportation, go with the Dimensional Anchor and Bestow Curse. That is probably your best bet.
#8
callista
Apr 14, 2008 19:50:12 I agree with the guy who said Erinyes probably won't make good party members! Unless you slap that Helm on her, she'll be much more of a problem than an asset; even then, she's going to be a Good creature with memories of extremely Evil actions. However, if you do get her on your side, her wings and Teleport would make her an excellent scout, especially if you gave her an Invisibility spell. (I'm working under the assumption that you are high level enough that she doesn't pose a real threat to the party's enemies, which should be the case. If she is powerful enough, she would count like a cohort and drain XP from your party; so you're better off if she isn't.)

If you are thinking of resurrecting her, do not use a Good-aligned cleric. She won't return.
#9
boundlesslimits
Apr 15, 2008 5:26:49 The characters we play are around level 10~11, we have a clerk, battle soc, assassin, a Ninja warlock. . . . .
We also have an aristocrat (don’t ask) with decent diplomacy.

Thanks for all the advices so far,

teleport can be countered with dimension door
Resurrection is possible with revive outsider, (I cant seem to find that part of reviving with a good clerk).

Now the only thing I need to do is find to way to dispose of her other SLA’s like charm,
I have a high will save so I am not that concerned about that.

Would it help if I had 20 minions beat her with sticks/saps or something other non lethal to get her unconscious?
#10
shaggy_shaggs
Apr 15, 2008 6:00:29 It's cleric, not clerk. And the reason you don't use a good cleric is this, quoted from the tail end of Bringing Back the Dead (PHB page 171):
Revivification against One's Will: A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis. For example, if Alhandra the paladin is slain and a high priest of Nerull (god of death) grabs her body, Alhandra probably does not wish to be raised from the dead by him. Any attempts he makes to revive her automatically fail. If the evil cleric wants to revive Alhandra to interrogate her, he needs to find some way to trick her soul, such as duping a good cleric into raising her and then capturing her once she is alive again.

#11
tedronai
Apr 15, 2008 6:00:30
Resurrection is possible with revive outsider, (I cant seem to find that part of reviving with a good clerk).

A creature being brought back to life knows who is giving them that opportunity. And they can say 'No'.

In 'Bringing Back the Dead' in the PHB under the Magic Overview section (though yanked from the SRD's version of the same section):
"Revivification against One’s Will: A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis."
#12
boundlesslimits
Apr 15, 2008 7:14:06 Doesn’t all evil people go to some sort hell/eternal torture?
So she knows that the one reviving her is a good cleric, but where she is being summons cant possible be any worse then where she is now right?
What if the cleric was forced into reviving her.
That are things she doesn’t knows.

So is there any possibility that she will get back.
Is there any way to summon one, through planar ally or the like? (I know that alignment thingy in planar ally)

Also there is still one Erinyes alive (I have one idea where she might be), so reviving isn’t really the real problem here.

I have the undead walk invocation, so an creating a army of undead to beat the hell out of her with a non lethal weapon, will that successfully negate her sla’s?
#13
shaggy_shaggs
Apr 15, 2008 7:33:47
Doesn’t all evil people go to some sort hell/eternal torture?

No. Creatures generally go to the plane that matches their alignment, if they don't have a specific patron deity (if they did, they'd usually go to that deity's plane). The bloody free-for-all of the Abyss is home if you're a demon, and if you're demonic in alignment it would likely not be difficult to get used to.* The Nine Hells of Baator likewise aren't necessarily agony for LE creatures, particularly LE creatures that were spawned there.
So she knows that the one reviving her is a good cleric, but where she is being summons cant possible be any worse then where she is now right?

Wrong, see above.
What if the cleric was forced into reviving her.

She doesn't know and very likely doesn't care.
That are things she doesn’t knows.

Your point is?
So is there any possibility that she will get back.

Sure, get somebody with a suitable alignment and/or patron deity to bring her back without arousing her suspicion. A LE godless cleric could probably get away with it, as might (for example) a NE or LN cleric of Hextor or a similar deity.
Is there any way to summon one, through planar ally or the like? (I know that alignment thingy in planar ally)

A planar ally type spell might work, if your deity is the sort to send you one of those as a planar ally. Elsewise you'll probably need a planar binding sort of spell, or possibly a gate. Or you could use plane shift to go to their place and try to talk or force one into coming back with you.
Also there is still one Erinyes alive (I have one idea where she might be), so reviving isn’t really the real problem here.

So go get her if you don't have a proper cleric for the job.
I have the undead walk invocation, so an creating a army of undead to beat the hell out of her with a non lethal weapon, will that successfully negate her sla’s?

Unlikely. If they can hit her they can possibly break her concentration for spell-like abilities, but zombies aren't known for the greatest attack rolls or damage - she's got relatively decent armor class, damage reduction, and her Concentration modifier is fairly high, too.

Besides, even if that did work, and you managed to charm her afterward, you'd have problems. Charming something makes it friendly toward you, it doesn't make it your loyal and unresisting slave. A devil probably wouldn't be the safest friend to have to begin with, and a devil who remembers you calling up a bunch of undead to beat the crap out of it might have some interesting ideas on the nature of your "friendship". I've had some friends like these, we got into brawls every time we met, and then went out and got drunk together afterward. Fun time if you don't mind bleeding and bruises, but maybe not a good idea with a monster.

* I wish I could go to the Abyss. Not that I want to exist for eternity, but if I had to go anywhere, there would be good. I'd refuse a rez if I were there, though I might consider going back if some friends physically came to the Abyss and tried to bring me back that way, just for their dedication in going that far.
#14
khatoblepas
Apr 15, 2008 9:47:43
No. Creatures generally go to the plane that matches their alignment, if they don't have a specific patron deity (if they did, they'd usually go to that deity's plane). The bloody free-for-all of the Abyss is home if you're a demon, and if you're demonic in alignment it would likely not be difficult to get used to.* The Nine Hells of Baator likewise aren't necessarily agony for LE creatures, particularly LE creatures that were spawned there.

I thought she was dead. You know, dead dead. Dead as in, she isn't ANYWHERE but where her body is. Outsiders don't have the body/soul duality that other creatures do. When they die, they're dead. They ARE their souls.

I mean, she might be respawned as a dretch or something equally lowly, eventually.

The way I see it, if you have the body of an erinyes on your hands, you also have her soul and she'd take a Revive Outsider anyday. It's be raised by Good creatures and have a chance to escape... or be a dretch.

Which would you choose?
#15
twistedpuppy
Apr 15, 2008 9:58:35 I don't have any books handy, but I thought that when you "kill" an Outsider they return to their own plane. There wouldn't be a body there to resurrect.
#16
Great_Zamboni
Apr 15, 2008 13:20:54 I know it's a moot point because there's an Erinyes still alive and gunning for your character, but as regards rezzing the dead one - in the Nine Hells sourcebook, it notes that the Erinyes are the most protective of their status because they're the only devils in the Nine Hells that don't look like pus spewing organ piles - so the dead one might be more likely to accept a True Rez or Revive Outsider than your average devil, just so she could stay a smokin' hottie.
#17
khatoblepas
Apr 15, 2008 16:26:52
I don't have any books handy, but I thought that when you "kill" an Outsider they return to their own plane. There wouldn't be a body there to resurrect.

I'm sure there's a condition for that somewhere. I thought when you summoned an outsider and killed them, they returned to their home plane, and if you called them, they stayed dead.

Otherwise many outsider PCs would only need Plane Shift to return to their allies, not Revive Outsider or True Rez ;)

It all depends on whether the Outsider is ACTUALLY there. Since you have a dead body, she was called or Plane Shifted.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 boundlesslimits Apr 13, 2008 15:52:16	Hey ya all, well I am currently playing a warlock, and got hands on a Erinyes. (which the party recently killed) and i am currently in the status "level up". i have been thinking about taking the charm invocation, resurrecting the Erinyes through the clerk. and charming her. now the problem is that she has the ability to teleport (grapple didn’t seemed to work on the second one) and probably has the possibility to charm as well. binding her to a rock with 22 chains and 35 ropes wont help I’m afraid. now for my question, is the any way to get her charmed, without failure... which means, negating her charm SLA's and teleport SLA's without losing the ability to charm her. thanks in advance boundlesslimits
#2 iserith Apr 13, 2008 15:58:26	You can't easily resurrect outsiders. It requires limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection. Check the Monster Manual, page 313, for the outsider subtype. (I'm assuming you don't have access to those spells.)
#3 boundlesslimits Apr 13, 2008 16:11:23	You can't easily resurrect outsiders. It requires limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection. Check the Monster Manual, page 313, for the outsider subtype. (I'm assuming you don't have access to those spells.) Ack, Wel there is a second one but she got away with that teleportation SLA, Then im hoping to run into that one again. Still I need to find a way to block her SLA’s then.
#4 iserith Apr 13, 2008 16:20:31	Ack, Wel there is a second one but she got away with that teleportation SLA, Then im hoping to run into that one again. Still I need to find a way to block her SLA’s then. Dimensional anchor is a spell used to defeat teleport. To avoid her charm spells, you need to boost your Will save such as through an owl's wisdom spell. If you have a 9th-level cleric, try spell resistance.
#5 Iry Apr 13, 2008 19:13:13	Unless your party is slaveringly evil, I don't think this is going to work out for you as well as you hoped. Once you've charmed the Erinyes what are you planning to ask her to do? What if she refuses? Friendship only goes so far, and she's neither obligated to be too friendly to the rest of your party (though you could ask), but certainly not obligated to not flay, murder, and torture people right before your eyes. You can't stop her from being a horribly evil person, and trying to do anything more than convince her to do it out of your sight is going to be an affront to her morality.
#6 Great_Zamboni Apr 14, 2008 19:08:20	See if you can't hit her (the live one) with a Bestow Curse targeting her Wisdom, then charm her and offer her this lovely helm (of opposite alignment). If you have the Bestow Curse invocation or a caster who can cast it, you should be able to craft the helm. Once she's Chaotic Good -and- friendly towards you, most of your problems should be solved.
#7 tobias_bluesummers Apr 14, 2008 19:27:31	You can't easily resurrect outsiders. It requires limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection. Check the Monster Manual, page 313, for the outsider subtype. (I'm assuming you don't have access to those spells.) Well there is always the "Revive Outsider" spell from the Spell Compendium. As to trying to get past her spell resistance and teleportation, go with the Dimensional Anchor and Bestow Curse. That is probably your best bet.
#8 callista Apr 14, 2008 19:50:12	I agree with the guy who said Erinyes probably won't make good party members! Unless you slap that Helm on her, she'll be much more of a problem than an asset; even then, she's going to be a Good creature with memories of extremely Evil actions. However, if you do get her on your side, her wings and Teleport would make her an excellent scout, especially if you gave her an Invisibility spell. (I'm working under the assumption that you are high level enough that she doesn't pose a real threat to the party's enemies, which should be the case. If she is powerful enough, she would count like a cohort and drain XP from your party; so you're better off if she isn't.) If you are thinking of resurrecting her, do not use a Good-aligned cleric. She won't return.
#9 boundlesslimits Apr 15, 2008 5:26:49	The characters we play are around level 10~11, we have a clerk, battle soc, assassin, a Ninja warlock. . . . . We also have an aristocrat (don’t ask) with decent diplomacy. Thanks for all the advices so far, teleport can be countered with dimension door Resurrection is possible with revive outsider, (I cant seem to find that part of reviving with a good clerk). Now the only thing I need to do is find to way to dispose of her other SLA’s like charm, I have a high will save so I am not that concerned about that. Would it help if I had 20 minions beat her with sticks/saps or something other non lethal to get her unconscious?
#10 shaggy_shaggs Apr 15, 2008 6:00:29	It's cleric, not clerk. And the reason you don't use a good cleric is this, quoted from the tail end of Bringing Back the Dead (PHB page 171): Revivification against One's Will: A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis. For example, if Alhandra the paladin is slain and a high priest of Nerull (god of death) grabs her body, Alhandra probably does not wish to be raised from the dead by him. Any attempts he makes to revive her automatically fail. If the evil cleric wants to revive Alhandra to interrogate her, he needs to find some way to trick her soul, such as duping a good cleric into raising her and then capturing her once she is alive again.
#11 tedronai Apr 15, 2008 6:00:30	Resurrection is possible with revive outsider, (I cant seem to find that part of reviving with a good clerk). A creature being brought back to life knows who is giving them that opportunity. And they can say 'No'. In 'Bringing Back the Dead' in the PHB under the Magic Overview section (though yanked from the SRD's version of the same section): "Revivification against One’s Will: A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis."
#12 boundlesslimits Apr 15, 2008 7:14:06	Doesn’t all evil people go to some sort hell/eternal torture? So she knows that the one reviving her is a good cleric, but where she is being summons cant possible be any worse then where she is now right? What if the cleric was forced into reviving her. That are things she doesn’t knows. So is there any possibility that she will get back. Is there any way to summon one, through planar ally or the like? (I know that alignment thingy in planar ally) Also there is still one Erinyes alive (I have one idea where she might be), so reviving isn’t really the real problem here. I have the undead walk invocation, so an creating a army of undead to beat the hell out of her with a non lethal weapon, will that successfully negate her sla’s?
#13 shaggy_shaggs Apr 15, 2008 7:33:47	Doesn’t all evil people go to some sort hell/eternal torture? No. Creatures generally go to the plane that matches their alignment, if they don't have a specific patron deity (if they did, they'd usually go to that deity's plane). The bloody free-for-all of the Abyss is home if you're a demon, and if you're demonic in alignment it would likely not be difficult to get used to.* The Nine Hells of Baator likewise aren't necessarily agony for LE creatures, particularly LE creatures that were spawned there. So she knows that the one reviving her is a good cleric, but where she is being summons cant possible be any worse then where she is now right? Wrong, see above. What if the cleric was forced into reviving her. She doesn't know and very likely doesn't care. That are things she doesn’t knows. Your point is? So is there any possibility that she will get back. Sure, get somebody with a suitable alignment and/or patron deity to bring her back without arousing her suspicion. A LE godless cleric could probably get away with it, as might (for example) a NE or LN cleric of Hextor or a similar deity. Is there any way to summon one, through planar ally or the like? (I know that alignment thingy in planar ally) A planar ally type spell might work, if your deity is the sort to send you one of those as a planar ally. Elsewise you'll probably need a planar binding sort of spell, or possibly a gate. Or you could use plane shift to go to their place and try to talk or force one into coming back with you. Also there is still one Erinyes alive (I have one idea where she might be), so reviving isn’t really the real problem here. So go get her if you don't have a proper cleric for the job. I have the undead walk invocation, so an creating a army of undead to beat the hell out of her with a non lethal weapon, will that successfully negate her sla’s? Unlikely. If they can hit her they can possibly break her concentration for spell-like abilities, but zombies aren't known for the greatest attack rolls or damage - she's got relatively decent armor class, damage reduction, and her Concentration modifier is fairly high, too. Besides, even if that did work, and you managed to charm her afterward, you'd have problems. Charming something makes it friendly toward you, it doesn't make it your loyal and unresisting slave. A devil probably wouldn't be the safest friend to have to begin with, and a devil who remembers you calling up a bunch of undead to beat the crap out of it might have some interesting ideas on the nature of your "friendship". I've had some friends like these, we got into brawls every time we met, and then went out and got drunk together afterward. Fun time if you don't mind bleeding and bruises, but maybe not a good idea with a monster. * I wish I could go to the Abyss. Not that I want to exist for eternity, but if I had to go anywhere, there would be good. I'd refuse a rez if I were there, though I might consider going back if some friends physically came to the Abyss and tried to bring me back that way, just for their dedication in going that far.
#14 khatoblepas Apr 15, 2008 9:47:43	No. Creatures generally go to the plane that matches their alignment, if they don't have a specific patron deity (if they did, they'd usually go to that deity's plane). The bloody free-for-all of the Abyss is home if you're a demon, and if you're demonic in alignment it would likely not be difficult to get used to.* The Nine Hells of Baator likewise aren't necessarily agony for LE creatures, particularly LE creatures that were spawned there. I thought she was dead. You know, dead dead. Dead as in, she isn't ANYWHERE but where her body is. Outsiders don't have the body/soul duality that other creatures do. When they die, they're dead. They ARE their souls. I mean, she might be respawned as a dretch or something equally lowly, eventually. The way I see it, if you have the body of an erinyes on your hands, you also have her soul and she'd take a Revive Outsider anyday. It's be raised by Good creatures and have a chance to escape... or be a dretch. Which would you choose?
#15 twistedpuppy Apr 15, 2008 9:58:35	I don't have any books handy, but I thought that when you "kill" an Outsider they return to their own plane. There wouldn't be a body there to resurrect.
#16 Great_Zamboni Apr 15, 2008 13:20:54	I know it's a moot point because there's an Erinyes still alive and gunning for your character, but as regards rezzing the dead one - in the Nine Hells sourcebook, it notes that the Erinyes are the most protective of their status because they're the only devils in the Nine Hells that don't look like pus spewing organ piles - so the dead one might be more likely to accept a True Rez or Revive Outsider than your average devil, just so she could stay a smokin' hottie.
#17 khatoblepas Apr 15, 2008 16:26:52	I don't have any books handy, but I thought that when you "kill" an Outsider they return to their own plane. There wouldn't be a body there to resurrect. I'm sure there's a condition for that somewhere. I thought when you summoned an outsider and killed them, they returned to their home plane, and if you called them, they stayed dead. Otherwise many outsider PCs would only need Plane Shift to return to their allies, not Revive Outsider or True Rez ;) It all depends on whether the Outsider is ACTUALLY there. Since you have a dead body, she was called or Plane Shifted.