Finally found a character my DM won't approve - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Finally found a character my DM won't approve

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xealot
Feb 21, 2009 7:57:45 Is the Marshall class really that powerful? I mean true i was planning on just splashing 2 levels of it after I had 5 levels of Paladin, 1 level of fighter and then for my 10 level was going to Take the Planescape PrC Infidel Crusader.

I guess a 32 AC (not including my combat expertise) 17 Fort, 10, Reflex, and the ability to have a 15 Will save while giving my allies a +5 boost to there will save in 30ft, +4 in 60ft (commanders FP + minor aura) and an additional +1 to AC (major aura) is kind of broken. Not to mention Imp Crit.

I am not mad in the least bit, because once I thought about it... wow, that is a lot of cheese.

Is the Marshall really that powerful, or did I just have one of those odd builds that synergies really well?
#2
masteraaron
Feb 21, 2009 10:14:11 Pft. By 3.x standards, that's respectable but not true cheese. I would guess that the reason that your DM won't allow Marshal is because the Miniatures Handbook is 3.0, which doesn't balance precisely with 3.5. A lot of 3.5 DMs don't want to deal with 3.0 material.
#3
ciaran
Feb 21, 2009 10:20:47 What was the DM's reason?
#4
salla
Feb 21, 2009 10:38:59 That character is about as cheesy as a brick.

Paladin: Weak
Fighter: Good for a bonus feat or two. Weak.
Marshal: Good for a 1 level dip for Skill focus (Diplomacy). Weak.

Now, there are some times when you can mix three flavors of weak and get something decent out of it, but I don't think this is one of those times.

And as a contractual obligation, I must state, if he disallows this character and allows clerics, druids, or wizards without applying a nerfhammer, he has no idea what cheesy is.
#5
johnnii
Feb 21, 2009 10:50:33 If your DM have been fairly "approval" until now, has either he or you checked the Tome of Battle?
#6
ilikefrogs
Feb 21, 2009 11:14:01
That character is about as cheesy as a brick.

Paladin: Weak

Progressing all the way, yes. Early levels (the OP said he's taking 5) give some good stuff. Including CHA (important for a Marshall) to saves, Turn Undead (which can be used to power divine feats, and works well with high CHA), and assorted immunities.

Fighter: Good for a bonus feat or two. Weak.

All the OP was taking it for was the bonus feats.

Marshal: Good for a 1 level dip for Skill focus (Diplomacy). Weak.

Not with the high CHA the OP seems to have.
#7
xealot
Feb 21, 2009 13:57:29 My DM is very open, it wasn't the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion he was worried about, he's running Planescape where most of the the Mobs, factions, and information on the Multiverse comes from AD&D and and 3.0

But being able to give +4 to your allies (+5 with my +3 Commanders FP) to Ally will saves, as well as hit 37 AC, crit on 17-20, 21 Diplomacy without rolling a die as well as with the levels of Infidel Crusader I am taking from lvl 10+ I had a good synergy as far as survivability.

I just don't see how 1 lvl (2 in my case) should allow me to add +4 to everyone's (including myself) will save.

I understand this character is not the most optimized build by far, but I'm just stating that I think getting that much will save (or bonus of your choice from the aura) by taking 1 lvl into a class is... Cheese. Of course sometimes I like cheese, apparently my DM doesn't, but I'm cool with that.
#8
xealot
Feb 21, 2009 15:29:03 Oh, the DM's reason was the bonus to Will saves for all allies.
#9
masteraaron
Feb 21, 2009 16:56:51
Oh, the DM's reason was the bonus to Will saves for all allies.

Really? That was it? That sort of bonus is pretty tame by 3E standards. It's useful, sure, but hardly gamebreaking. I think your DM just hasn't been exposed to the true abuseability of 3rd Edition. I suggest that you fix this oversight by creating a shapeshifting jermlaine druid. By 10th level, you could have your current character's AC, full druid spellcasting, and more melee power than most twink fighters. Simultaneously.
#10
kuonji
Feb 21, 2009 23:01:36 Marshal is a good backbone to a diplomancer build. I love the aura that adds your Cha mod to your Cha skills, double the Cha bonus ftw. :D

Marshal isn't all that great, but it is useful, especially for level dipping. Overall though, it's really not that powerful. Sure, that bonus to saves is nice, but it's hardly game breaking.
#11
Stafir_Ortnev
Feb 22, 2009 20:27:12 Marshal..when used right..is awesomely powerful.

I've seen someone with a similar build. Paladin..marshal..i think some fighter too. Feats that allowed you to spend turn attempts as other abilities. The build was to pump it all into a charge...and do massive damage. It also became a party buffer...and keeping up the + to initiative aura until combat started helped win many a fight..as we went first..period.
#12
ciaran
Feb 22, 2009 22:49:45 Look at the layout of the marshall table. HP, base attack, saves. Identical to the cleric. Marshall got no spells though. The auras similate them, to a certain extent. You're not more powerful than a cleric's spells. I can't imagine what your DM is afraid of.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xealot Feb 21, 2009 7:57:45	Is the Marshall class really that powerful? I mean true i was planning on just splashing 2 levels of it after I had 5 levels of Paladin, 1 level of fighter and then for my 10 level was going to Take the Planescape PrC Infidel Crusader. I guess a 32 AC (not including my combat expertise) 17 Fort, 10, Reflex, and the ability to have a 15 Will save while giving my allies a +5 boost to there will save in 30ft, +4 in 60ft (commanders FP + minor aura) and an additional +1 to AC (major aura) is kind of broken. Not to mention Imp Crit. I am not mad in the least bit, because once I thought about it... wow, that is a lot of cheese. Is the Marshall really that powerful, or did I just have one of those odd builds that synergies really well?
#2 masteraaron Feb 21, 2009 10:14:11	Pft. By 3.x standards, that's respectable but not true cheese. I would guess that the reason that your DM won't allow Marshal is because the Miniatures Handbook is 3.0, which doesn't balance precisely with 3.5. A lot of 3.5 DMs don't want to deal with 3.0 material.
#3 ciaran Feb 21, 2009 10:20:47	What was the DM's reason?
#4 salla Feb 21, 2009 10:38:59	That character is about as cheesy as a brick. Paladin: Weak Fighter: Good for a bonus feat or two. Weak. Marshal: Good for a 1 level dip for Skill focus (Diplomacy). Weak. Now, there are some times when you can mix three flavors of weak and get something decent out of it, but I don't think this is one of those times. And as a contractual obligation, I must state, if he disallows this character and allows clerics, druids, or wizards without applying a nerfhammer, he has no idea what cheesy is.
#5 johnnii Feb 21, 2009 10:50:33	If your DM have been fairly "approval" until now, has either he or you checked the Tome of Battle?
#6 ilikefrogs Feb 21, 2009 11:14:01	That character is about as cheesy as a brick. Paladin: Weak Progressing all the way, yes. Early levels (the OP said he's taking 5) give some good stuff. Including CHA (important for a Marshall) to saves, Turn Undead (which can be used to power divine feats, and works well with high CHA), and assorted immunities. Fighter: Good for a bonus feat or two. Weak. All the OP was taking it for was the bonus feats. Marshal: Good for a 1 level dip for Skill focus (Diplomacy). Weak. Not with the high CHA the OP seems to have.
#7 xealot Feb 21, 2009 13:57:29	My DM is very open, it wasn't the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion he was worried about, he's running Planescape where most of the the Mobs, factions, and information on the Multiverse comes from AD&D and and 3.0 But being able to give +4 to your allies (+5 with my +3 Commanders FP) to Ally will saves, as well as hit 37 AC, crit on 17-20, 21 Diplomacy without rolling a die as well as with the levels of Infidel Crusader I am taking from lvl 10+ I had a good synergy as far as survivability. I just don't see how 1 lvl (2 in my case) should allow me to add +4 to everyone's (including myself) will save. I understand this character is not the most optimized build by far, but I'm just stating that I think getting that much will save (or bonus of your choice from the aura) by taking 1 lvl into a class is... Cheese. Of course sometimes I like cheese, apparently my DM doesn't, but I'm cool with that.
#8 xealot Feb 21, 2009 15:29:03	Oh, the DM's reason was the bonus to Will saves for all allies.
#9 masteraaron Feb 21, 2009 16:56:51	Oh, the DM's reason was the bonus to Will saves for all allies. Really? That was it? That sort of bonus is pretty tame by 3E standards. It's useful, sure, but hardly gamebreaking. I think your DM just hasn't been exposed to the true abuseability of 3rd Edition. I suggest that you fix this oversight by creating a shapeshifting jermlaine druid. By 10th level, you could have your current character's AC, full druid spellcasting, and more melee power than most twink fighters. Simultaneously.
#10 kuonji Feb 21, 2009 23:01:36	Marshal is a good backbone to a diplomancer build. I love the aura that adds your Cha mod to your Cha skills, double the Cha bonus ftw. :D Marshal isn't all that great, but it is useful, especially for level dipping. Overall though, it's really not that powerful. Sure, that bonus to saves is nice, but it's hardly game breaking.
#11 Stafir_Ortnev Feb 22, 2009 20:27:12	Marshal..when used right..is awesomely powerful. I've seen someone with a similar build. Paladin..marshal..i think some fighter too. Feats that allowed you to spend turn attempts as other abilities. The build was to pump it all into a charge...and do massive damage. It also became a party buffer...and keeping up the + to initiative aura until combat started helped win many a fight..as we went first..period.
#12 ciaran Feb 22, 2009 22:49:45	Look at the layout of the marshall table. HP, base attack, saves. Identical to the cleric. Marshall got no spells though. The auras similate them, to a certain extent. You're not more powerful than a cleric's spells. I can't imagine what your DM is afraid of.