So I proposed I'd be playing any "unfilled" role, and got stuck with the Leader (wanted to play a Ranger...)
BTW, group composition is:
Fighter
Warlock
Barbarian
Rogue
Me
I was thinking to play Warlord, just because it's the Leader I dislike less, but then I thought maybe we have too many melee chars, so I should probably go for laser cleric.
We're going to play Kobold Hall from the DMG, so I think I'll need to heal a lot in the last fight.
Any suggestions on class/build I should be playing?
(wanted to play a Ranger...)
If you want to play a Ranger, then play one.
I know that I'd much rather a player play a character that (s)he actually wants to play rather than...
...playing any "unfilled" role, and got stuck with the Leader.
I WILL play the Leader, I was just wondering if someone had some ideas for the best Leader in such a party composition.
As for which leader works best in that particular group, I'd say pick whichever one you like best (or dislike least, as you put it). I am partial to Tactical Warlords myself, but they are all close enough in power that it really boils down to personal taste/playing style more than anything.
One of the nice things about 4e is that there are no more Healbots, so you are in luck there. You will still get to do things besides heal the rest of the group regardless of which role you play.
This. One of the design tenants of 4E is that healers don't have to sacrifice walloping critters to heal, typically speaking.
That said, Warlord seems to be the favorite non-healer healer. I'm a big fan of the Shaman, but that's mostly for flavor's sake. There's a lot of potential for also-striker or pseudo-defender with the Shaman, too.
Other fun options are bard/artificer/shaman (i find clerics to be rather meh).
Lots of ranged weapon powers out now for bard, unfortunately only 1 ranged weapon at will... oh well.
Does not matter a whole lot other than if you are planning on playing more than just that one adventure, you will need to definitely consider what will be fun more than what "fits" best.
At any rate, clerics are still the best healers around. Between the bonuses they add to their healing powers, Beacon of Hope, Healing Strike and Sacred Flame, they can definitely keep the party on its feet as well (and likely better) than anyone else.
That being said, if you are looking to play more than just the one adventure, the Bard can be a lot of fun (its gotten a lot of love since 3.x) and can dip into other roles really well, as well as bouncing in and out of melee without missing a beat.
If the warlord sounds like the most fun to you though (I haven't played one yet) then go with that. Its far more important to play something you enjoy than it is to play something the group "needs".
RONIN: Keldar! I'm bleeding over here!"
KELDAR: Oh, okay. Hold on a sec.
(Keldar plants his mace into a gnaw-demon's skull.)
KELDAR: Feel better?
RONIN: Yeah, thanks!
If you think of being a Cleric (or whatever class) as just a burden you have to take on, you won't enjoy it, at least not at first.
You can also build characters quite effectively to differentiate them from the "norm."
Now you wanted to be a Ranger to be the guy who runs around and does damage. The group has three of those already so your Ranger would just be lost in the shuffle. Being the lone leader makes you stand out a lot among the group.
A major up side of a Leader role is being the linchpin of the party. A PC gets messed up, and they look to the Leader to pull their butt out of the fire. If the Leader gets messed up, everyone jumps to his rescue essentially at his command. At the same time, you're doing pretty decent damage and can inflict tons of status effects or penalties on enemies.
There's almost nothing "heal bot" about any class unless you focus on that. Other than the "Healing/Inspiring" Words, all your abilities do something to the enemies (aside from certain utilities).
One angle the Cleric excels in is causing enemy "despair." Clerics are the kings of healing, so much that you can restore your party to full with almost no effort. The enemies just lay into you with their encounter powers, and then *poof* your party is back to full health -- and oh look, most enemies are now Weakened also.
And of course you should never overlook the importance of roleplaying. You can definitely come up with a character concept that will do well as a Leader.
Multiclassing can also be quite amusing. Clerics might not normally multiclass as Paladins, but think about it: Divine Challenge will do damage if the creature attacks someone other than you -- but if you use it on a target that's surrounded by your smash-happy teammates while you just fire at it from a safe distance, the thing stuck in the middle is fairly screwed. It's taking an attack penalty against everybody next to it, takes damage if it attacks them, and likely provokes OAs if it tries to shoot you or run around to get you! A laser cleric probably has decent Charisma too.
You do your job of penalizing the enemies' ability to hit your friends, and punish it with damage if it does anything (except teleport I suppose). Some Paladin Utilities are also quite great for Leaders, or anybody.
EDIT: The Barbarian would also be your "best friend" if you're a Leader. It's almost laughable how much damage they take -- if it weren't balanced by the amount they dish out.
well, I did propose to play the unfilled role, so I want to keep my word.
I WILL play the Leader, I was just wondering if someone had some ideas for the best Leader in such a party composition.
Why not play a controller? You can be a wizard, invoker or druid. There are no controllers in your group either.
I think I wrapped my mind a bit more around the Leader idea, and Tactlord seems quite tasty indeed.
Too bad there isn't a ranged Warlord build going around...
Clerics and Warlords are both front-line "bash things" style leaders. In both cases you wear heavy armor, wield a meating weapon and hit the enemies. Healing is secondary.
Bards can heal and you can go either frontline or ranged. Again, no high damage but you can take powers that move the enemies around and give allies bonuses and your enemies penalties.
However-- given that you want ranged and your first choice was Ranger, you should consider the Shaman. Light armored healer who is ranged, but gets to create big nasty spirit animals to fight for them. You get to be a ranged person character with an animal companion and still fill the leader role.
The cleric has two main ways of healing:
- 1) He using his "healing word" power, which is a minor action so he can still attack or do whatever else that round
- 2) He uses some sort of attack power to both damage the enemy and heal an ally.
As I recall, all healing powers are ranged (if only ~5 squares). You no longer spend every turn rushing from one ally to the next casting cure spells. Also, everyone else can heal themselves once per encounter (and you will have limited heals yourself) so you'll find yourself doing more skull bashing than healing anyways.
Warlord (especially taclord) is a great class to play, but keep these things in mind:
- It's one of the more difficult classes to be when you're new to the system (or especially D&D itself). Your powers run through many different aspects of the rules and tactics.
- You've got a fairly melee-heavy party which is both good and bad. Good in that you will often find excellent ways to use your warlord's powers (they typically enhance/give advantage to your melee party members). But your party does only have 1 ranged party member. This is a weakness that could be exploited.
the pary needs a Leader
I beg to differ. Our party has no leader and they do quite well.
I take it you mean that the party (the other players) wants (you to play) a leader (which no one else wants to play).
I was thinking to play Warlord, just because it's the Leader I dislike less, but then I thought maybe we have too many melee chars, so I should probably go for laser cleric.
You seemed to have put yourself in the situation where you have to play something you dislike less. If this is the case, go with with the Warlord.
the pary needs a Leader, so Controller is going to be for another time
I think I wrapped my mind a bit more around the Leader idea, and Tactlord seems quite tasty indeed.
Too bad there isn't a ranged Warlord build going around...
Tactlord with a reach weapon would be good, but if you're looking for a ranged leader there's actually a couple really sweet options: Bard and Artificer.
Battlesmith Artificer
At Wills: Aggravating Force, Magic Weapon
L 1 Encounter: Burning Weapons
L 1 Daily: Icebound Sigil
Take Greatbow proficiency for a satisfying d12 weapon die giving you a hefty punch of your own. You've still got the tools to manage and enhance HP flow in the party, but spend most of your time boosting the party's damage output. If the Warlock is Infernal Pact then Burning Weapons works for everyone in the party, setting up for a wicked nova round.
Bard has similar options, and there's a really interesting Cunning Bard that uses thrown weapons (Daggers to start, then Drow Long Knives) enchanted as Songblades to weave in and out of melee, pulling melee, implement, and ranged weapon powers.
Bards can heal and you can go either frontline or ranged. Again, no high damage but you can take powers that move the enemies around and give allies bonuses and your enemies penalties.
Funny story about this:
In our last session we had a temp player with a Barbarian sitting in with us and three times during the session I was able to use Blunder on a target giving the Barbarian a MBA. It was easily the highest damage non-daily at the table.
Barbarians hit things with axes.
Bards and Warlords hit things with Barbarians.
Every leader class has some kind of "word" to heal between that and maybe one or two extra healing powers, you're set. You can easily build a character to your liking if you look a bit closer at the classes.
There is almost no 'pure healbot' anymore. If you want to smash things, go Strength cleric, if you want a more controllery character go bard or Taclord.
Predator Shaman is also a nice niche if you want dps and want to assist.
don't forget the multiclass rules, as a strength cleric for example multiclass into barbarian or something.
For ranged damage I suggest predator shaman or laser cleric.
I know little about bard and artificer though. :s
Barbarians hit things with axes.
Bards and Warlords hit things with Barbarians.
Funny, indeed. Don't know if you made this up or not, but I'm quoting this anyway.
Can't really contribute much to the topic at hand, but I will say that ranged bards MC'd as Paladins could be pretty fun. Divine challenge hit 'n' run, baby!
Barbarians hit things with axes.
Bards and Warlords hit things with Barbarians.
Oh YES!
This was sorta true for the 3.5 bard, but mostly he could end up spending all his actions on passive buffs. 4E bards and warlords excel at using their allies as weapons while still directly participating. (For comparison, 4E clerics excel at bolstering their allies defenses and health while still directly participating, though bards can do this too).
You realize there is no Controller either. Why don't you play a wizard?
It's all how you decide to play.