Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pluisjen May 20, 2010 15:27:37	Or more specifically, finding 4 Goblin messengers en route to their kingdom, before they get there.  I'm trying to prepare a session for tomorrow, but I'm a bit stumped... It's an Eberron game and the players are 5th level and hunting down a group of Goblin messengers heading to Darguun. The players took the Lightning Rail to Sterngate but they'll soon find out that they've arrived at a fortress that doesn't allow any Goblins to get in or out, so they'll need to somehow find these Goblins... How would you go about trying to find these Goblins? Something in theme for Eberron would be nice... I'll gently poke them towards that, because I'm afraid they might not find a way themselves (if they do, then that's even better, but just in case) I was thinking about setting the next part of adventure in an underground cave system because the Goblins will moving through the mountains that seperate Breland from Darguun using an old smuggler's route.  Any suggestions?
#2 kouk May 20, 2010 15:51:22	So either the goblins went in the town secretly, or with collusion, or they found a way past the town? I'd prepare somewhat for both options and see which one the players want to follow. I strongly suspect that their assumption will be the goblins went in the town anyway, even though they're not supposed to, and then the players will want to infiltrate as well. Perhaps inside they can find out about the alternate route though. Smugglers' tunnels are boring after levels 1-3 I'd say. Give them a taste of the Dragon Below.
#3 MalakLightfoot May 20, 2010 16:07:03	Or more specifically, finding 4 Goblin messengers en route to their kingdom, before they get there.  I'm trying to prepare a session for tomorrow, but I'm a bit stumped... It's an Eberron game and the players are 5th level and hunting down a group of Goblin messengers heading to Darguun. The players took the Lightning Rail to Sterngate but they'll soon find out that they've arrived at a fortress that doesn't allow any Goblins to get in or out, so they'll need to somehow find these Goblins... How would you go about trying to find these Goblins? Something in theme for Eberron would be nice... I'll gently poke them towards that, because I'm afraid they might not find a way themselves (if they do, then that's even better, but just in case) I was thinking about setting the next part of adventure in an underground cave system because the Goblins will moving through the mountains that seperate Breland from Darguun using an old smuggler's route.  Any suggestions?  Well, the smartest thing for the players to have done would have been to track the goblins from their point of origin. Now that they have gotten ahead of the goblins, they need to determine the most direct path from the point of origin to their destination. Since it could be assumed that the Goblins know the city to which the PCs have come is unfriendly to their kind, then they will need to find a path of least resistance. If the PCs can figure out which path this is, then they will be able to ambush or track the Goblins. Since you are the GM, you have the "power of plot" in your hands. You make finding the Goblins as easy or as hard as you want it to be. Since the PCs decided to try to intercept the Goblins without having knowledge of the route the Goblins were taking, rather than chase the Goblins from their point of origin, they made a tactical blunder. They truly are looking for a needle in a haystack. Unless you make it easy for them, they probably shouldn't be able to find the Goblins before one of them gets through. In this case, prepare your campaign for the results of the Goblin messengers getting through and advance the story appropriately. The PCs should (hopefully) quickly realize that the Goblins have not been getting through that fortress, which means that the Goblins have another means of entry. They should consult with the local militia and see if there is a pattern to recent Goblin incursions. If the PCs can pin down the Goblin sitings and narrow their field of search, they might be able to locate how Goblins are bypassing this fortress. That's all I got. Without knowing the route beforehand, the chances of the PCs successfully intercepting the goblins en route was pretty minimal to begin with.
#4 mccowen May 21, 2010 9:52:48	[EDIT: you might see if you can get this post moved to What's a DM to Do. I just did a double-take after realizing that it's definitely DM-focused, but in the Player forum...] That's all I got. Without knowing the route beforehand, the chances of the PCs successfully intercepting the goblins en route was pretty minimal to begin with. Au contraire!  You can make finding the goblins a multi-part skill challenge. Part I: There must be a friendly arcanist NPC around, so sell your PCs a scroll of the ritual magic map (Arcane Power) and a map of the region near the fortress.  They (probably) don't have anything that would tie the ritual directly to the goblins, so they'll have to do it the hard way.  The PCs have to carefully and subtly alter the ritual so that they're all included (Arcana), recall very specific details about the goblins (Wisdom or Insight), and correctly interpret the goblins' location on the map (Nature).  The PCs can't "fail" this part of the challenge, but each failed check causes a painful mental backlash. That PC must make a successful Endurance check, or another PC must make a successful Heal check on the first PC's behalf, in order to avoid losing a healing surge. Part II: They got at best a brief glimpse of the goblins' location, so now they have to chase down the messengers.  This will could involve Nature (to match their current location with the glimpse on the map), Perception (to spot potentially hidden obstacles that would slow down or distract the PCs), and Insight (to predict the goblins' current location based on reasonable assumptions about their heading and speed).  Track failures here; each missed check leaves them further behind the goblins, so failures carry over to Part III. If the PCs fail the skill challenge here, they don't manage to intercept the messengers, but they do come across the goblins' trail.  The PCs can follow the trail with little difficulty, eventually discovering the aforementioned smugglers' caves, where they face a difficult encounter: the goblins are joined by a group of smugglers, who are taking Darguun cash to help the messengers reach their final destination.  Part III: The PCs have nearly caught up with the goblins, and try to create an opportunity to waylay them without warning.  This might involve group Stealth checks, some Athletics checks to cross obstacles, and maybe more Perception and Nature checks.  If the PCs succeed, they are able to get ahead of the goblins undetected, can set themselves up on the encounter map as they please, and get a surprise round.  If they fail the challenge, they are approaching the goblins loudly from behind... and the desperate messengers get the jump on the PCs, instead. *** This is my favorite kind of skill challenge: it sounds and feels very complicated, but it doesn't require much prep.  You have to have a "woods" encounter map, plus the five goblins (encounter level = PCs' level, or level +1); you also need a "cave mouth" encounter map, with the same five goblins plus a few additional lackeys and guards.
#5 MalakLightfoot May 21, 2010 13:04:00	[EDIT: you might see if you can get this post moved to What's a DM to Do. I just did a double-take after realizing that it's definitely DM-focused, but in the Player forum...] That's all I got. Without knowing the route beforehand, the chances of the PCs successfully intercepting the goblins en route was pretty minimal to begin with. Au contraire!  You can make finding the goblins a multi-part skill challenge. Part I: There must be a friendly arcanist NPC around, so sell your PCs a scroll of the ritual magic map (Arcane Power) and a map of the region near the fortress.  They (probably) don't have anything that would tie the ritual directly to the goblins, so they'll have to do it the hard way.  The PCs have to carefully and subtly alter the ritual so that they're all included (Arcana), recall very specific details about the goblins (Wisdom or Insight), and correctly interpret the goblins' location on the map (Nature).  The PCs can't "fail" this part of the challenge, but each failed check causes a painful mental backlash. That PC must make a successful Endurance check, or another PC must make a successful Heal check on the first PC's behalf, in order to avoid losing a healing surge. This equates to what I said about "making it easy on the players" Without this map, the Skill Challenge becomes much more difficult and much easier to fail. This is my favorite kind of skill challenge: it sounds and feels very complicated, but it doesn't require much prep.  You have to have a "woods" encounter map, plus the five goblins (encounter level = PCs' level, or level +1); you also need a "cave mouth" encounter map, with the same five goblins plus a few additional lackeys and guards. I agree that this sounds like an interesting skill challenge (more intersesting than chasing the Goblins, for sure). It will get everyone involved, with or without an Arcane Map, but without that map, the complexity goes way up. Part 1: Determining the most direct route - Nature or History Part 2: Determining path of least resistance - Nature or History Part 3: Recognizing that the Goblins cannot freely pass through the Keep - History or Diplomacy Part 4: Determining how the Goblins are bypassing the Keep - Diplomacy or Steetwise At this point, power of plot comes into play (if the DM wants the players to be able to catch the Goblins). If the players think the Goblins are coming through the Keep, then they must be smuggled through (a). If the players think that the Goblins are avoiding the Keep, then there must be another way through the pass (b). Part 5a: Find the smuggler - Streetwise Part 5b: Narrow down the Goblins' entry point by asking the locals where most of the Goblin sitings in the area have been - Diplomacy Part 6a: Force the Smuggler to talk - Intimidate or Diplomacy Part 6b: Find the Goblin trail to their secret enrtance - Nature Part 7a & 7b: Have the Goblin messengers already gotten here - Intimidate or Diplomacy (a) or Nature (b) If yes Part 8a & 8b: Catch up to the Goblins before they exit - Athletics If no Part 8a & 8b: Set an ambush - Stealth Once the Goblins have been engaged, add more tension to the scene. Four Goblins aren't much of a match for five level 5 PCs. After a round or two, have some beastie or patrol be attracted to all the noise and attack the PCs from behind.
#6 tubaman Jun 01, 2010 13:20:26	are the PCs meant to find the goblins?  if so, then a skill challenge might not be completely warranted, or, if used, make success mean that they lure the goblins into the town, and failure mean that they find them and fight them. i would, however, suggest using just a single roll (and hopefully some roleplaying) streetwise, bluff, intimidate, or diplomacy could lead them to a likely smuggler route outside the city (on a low roll), or get the name of the watchman and when his watch is, of the crooked guard who allows them through.....then blow the whistle on the goblins and the watch, becoming "heros" and stopping the goblins (on a high roll). nature or dungeoneering might give them the location of a likely pass the goblins will use (which of COURSE, they are using...) arcana might lock onto some magical emanation from something they are carrying, or might simply remind the PCs of a notable and useful ritual. or, failing ALL of that, they could try to meet the goblins AT their destination....giving them a level + 3 fight or something.