The fighter gets engulfed by a gelatinous cube. He's paralyzed.
The wizard then throws a fireball at said cube, killing it.
What happens to the fighter?
Does the cube dissolve when dead? If so it melts away, revealing a paralyzed fighter. If not, well they need to extract him from a dead cube.
Yeah, that was my difficulty. You'd think he'd be protected from the fireball, seeing as he was covered in Cube at the time; but there's no such thing in the rules.
That's when the DM does his job and makes a decision.
That's when the DM does his job and makes a decision.
I would rule that the cube absorbs the fireball damage to the extent of its hitpoints. So if the cube had 30 hit points and the fireball did 42 points of damage the fighter would take the 12 excess hit points.
THis said, I would have no problem with the DM ruling the fighter was protected by the goo left from the dead cube.
YMMV, --- Wheldrake
Yeah, that was my difficulty. You'd think he'd be protected from the fireball, seeing as he was covered in Cube at the time; but there's no such thing in the rules.
Sure there is.
Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.
You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.
A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).
An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell’s line of effect.
As Sunic_Flames said, there is no line of effect to the fighter - he's completely blocked from the spell by the gelatinous cube.
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
I'd say 'gelatinous cube' is definitely a barrier for this purpose.
Oh and technically a creature isn't dead until -10. Even then, unless it disintegrates when killed it still leaves solid remains. It'd be like getting eaten by a dragon. Even if the dragon dies, you're still sealed off from the outside world until freed. You'd also have to deal with the consequences in the meantime, namely stomach acid. Though things that would require an action from the dragon like muscle contractions would stop. Same deal here.
I'd grant the rule that concealment prevents the damage, you could look at it as the cube absorbed all the impact of the blast, but I like my plan better because then I can apply it to the tower shield. (As it should be, tower shield should be able to "block" a fireball)
Even if the dragon dies, you're still sealed off from the outside world until freed. You'd also have to deal with the consequences in the meantime, namely stomach acid. Though things that would require an action from the dragon like muscle contractions would stop. Same deal here.
I know it's a bit of topic (and I'm not 100% sure of accuracy), but I feel I should point out that larger creatures that get swallowed whole would normally dead by the time they areach the stomach due to consriction from the peristaltic (I've probalby spelt that wrong) muscles. An animal of any decent size thrashing around in its predator's stomach would be as much danger to the predator as the prey is in for ending up there in the first place because said thrashings could damage the stomach wall, resulting in autodigestion.
What the hell was the fighter doing that close to the gelatin cube?
Botching Spot checks.
Botching Spot checks.
LOL
nice!
I know it's a bit of topic (and I'm not 100% sure of accuracy), but I feel I should point out that larger creatures that get swallowed whole would normally dead by the time they areach the stomach due to consriction from the peristaltic (I've probalby spelt that wrong) muscles. An animal of any decent size thrashing around in its predator's stomach would be as much danger to the predator as the prey is in for ending up there in the first place because said thrashings could damage the stomach wall, resulting in autodigestion.
This is why they invented 'chewing'. ;)
This is why they invented 'chewing'. ;)
Which all the creatures with 'Swallow Whole' clearly missed the memo on. Also, being swallowed is something like 2d8+x bludgeoning damage and 2d8 acid damage. Not an instant kill. And it may be less, I forget.
Cover: Blocks some of the blast, but some still gets through. An example would be a tree.
Total cover: Blocks most of the blast, but a little still gets through. An example would be someone standing behind a wall with an arrow slit.
This is neither, it is a complete blocking of LoE. Now if the Fighter had his arm out or something, it'd just be total cover. And if he were only half eaten, cover.
Snakes, in real life, use Swallow Whole--but only on stunned, poisoned, or near-dead prey. That tells me that in a game, I won't have a dragon swallow somebody unless he really is near-dead and no risk to the dragon... Well, maybe a White might have a stupid moment; but generally dragons are too smart to swallow pointy, stabby objects while they're still stabbing things. That's probably why I don't have experience here.
The fighter's alive either way, so it's not a huge deal now. Will file this away for future reference.
I'd say 'gelatinous cube' is definitely a barrier for this purpose.
I'm using the SRD because I'm at work, but I'm missing the part where the rules actually spell out that the Cube acts as a barrier in this instance. Now I fully agree that the only logical ruling is to negate damage to the fighter in question. I checked the entry for the Gel-Cube however and I can't find anything that actually says Engulf blocks LoE.
I'm using the SRD because I'm at work, but I'm missing the part where the rules actually spell out that the Cube acts as a barrier in this instance. Now I fully agree that the only logical ruling is to negate damage to the fighter in question. I checked the entry for the Gel-Cube however and I can't find anything that actually says Engulf blocks LoE.
Common sense. Make yourself a package of Jello, and toss a few banana slices in the center. Get the Jello out of bowl while keeping it whole, and put it into a larger container of water with some food coloring in it. Drain the water, rip open the jello, and see if the banana has changed color. You will be able to see what gets affected by the coloring and what doesn't. Same idea as the LoE with spells.
The cube blocks the spell until it is destroyed. Since we have rules, but common sense can be used with a variety of perspectives in fantasy, I'm going to have to echo the idea of: the cube takes damage until it dies, then the fighter is exposed.
If the cube has 30 hp and the fireball does 42, the cube takes 40
(to get to -10) and the fighter takes the remaining 2.
While one could argue that there is still mass there, I don't think that's fair. The reason? At least in my game, regardless of what kills a cube engulfing a character, once it is dead, the character is able to take actions immediately. There is no action required to extricate oneself from the now dead cube. As such, the character is likely exposed enough to not be granted substantial cover.
By raw, though, the fireball would do full damage to the fighter, just as if a person were on the other side of a door that got burned away. In my campaign, the door would absorb some of the heat from an instantaneous effect like a firebally (for realism sake). However, by the spell rules, as someone pointed out, if the door gets burned away, the person behind it takes full damage.
It's a dm's call, in the end, but those are some ideas to inform the opinion.
Anyone miss when sage advice covered these neat issues instead of obvious answers that are clearly covered in the rules for anyone to read?
So - subtract "gelatinous cube hp" until you reach -10. Then the cube is dead. Its corpse takes the remaining d... I'm sorry, takes half the remaining damage (objects don't take full damage from fire), until its supply of hit points is gone.
But in actual play, as the DM, I would simply have overlooked the possibility that the fighter took fire damage from the spell, and explained how he toppled out of the sizzling, dissolving cube. And then my party's sorceror would have stuck underwear on his head before the paralysis could wear off. It's that kind of party.
If there is a wall that totally blocked the entire AOE (if the fireball was cast right at the side of a house) the fire will not eminate into the house. If a door is open and the fireball originates outside the door, there effect will enter the house and spread out to complete the sphere.
towershields will block a burst effect spell though, in that case an obstical will block the effect (you can hide behind a pillar).
Now, the cube I would say has the effect of the house w/ no door, the fighter inside would be safe from the damage.
Monsters don't just 'disappear' when they die. What you have is a big blob of burnt Jello. Blob of burnt Jello at -12 = slightly more burnt Jello.
Now maybe if for some reason the Sorcerer spammed Fireballs on the corpse, he'd at least partially destroy it at which point he could burn the Fighter.
But why in the Nine Hells would he want to?
So... how long do your characters usually take to get a friend out of a killed Cube? After all, if there's so much left of it, its remains are most probably still paralysing (and most certainly still acidic), so touching the cube is pretty much out...
I would rule that the cube absorbs the fireball damage to the extent of its hitpoints. So if the cube had 30 hit points and the fireball did 42 points of damage the fighter would take the 12 excess hit points.
That's how I'd rule it also.
By the RAW, the fighter takes full damage since he was in the area of effect and was not allowed a reflex save from being paralyzed. However, as a DM I would rule that the fighter has cover from the cube and takes reduced/no damage.
Actually he should still get a save if it's ruled he's in the LoE.
From the FAQ - Exactly when can a character make a Reflex saving
throw? The saving throw section on the Player’s Handbook
says Reflex saves depend on a character’s ability to dodge
out of the way. Does that mean you can’t make Reflex saves
if you can’t move?
If you’re helpless, your Dexterity score is effectively
0. You still can make Reflex saves, but your
Dexterity modifier is –5. You’re helpless whenever
you are paralyzed, unconscious, or asleep.
And as I've stated before, I would certainly rule that there's no LoE on Engulfed/Swallowed characters. I'm merely pointing out that this is a common sense ruling, and there's no text in the books to support it (that I've been able to find).
Jello shots for the save....:D
I'd rule that unless the cube is litterally vaporised by the fireball (And that'd take much more then just it's HP + 10), the fighter is totally safe.
Baring possible underwear jamming on his head.
It's an instant kill for the commoners that usually make up the dragon's meals, though. That's probably what it was made for, anyway--not for combat.
Snakes, in real life, use Swallow Whole--but only on stunned, poisoned, or near-dead prey. That tells me that in a game, I won't have a dragon swallow somebody unless he really is near-dead and no risk to the dragon... Well, maybe a White might have a stupid moment; but generally dragons are too smart to swallow pointy, stabby objects while they're still stabbing things. That's probably why I don't have experience here.
The fighter's alive either way, so it's not a huge deal now. Will file this away for future reference.
Tactics generally change somewhere in between being 3 feet long and 6 pounds and being a 100-foot long Winged Fire-breathing 6 Ton Avatar of Death.
I'd rule that unless the cube is litterally vaporised by the fireball (And that'd take much more then just it's HP + 10), the fighter is totally safe..
You overlooked something. There is a point before vaporization and after total hit point damage. Like a pot of water being heated. If you are in the pot, you will die before the water is totally vaporized or, even reaches the boiling point.
Hmph. By 'rules as written', corpses are objects. The corpse of a Huge creature becomes a Huge object... with no hardness in this case, but tons and tons of hit points to "sunder" the object.
So - subtract "gelatinous cube hp" until you reach -10. Then the cube is dead. Its corpse takes the remaining d... I'm sorry, takes half the remaining damage (objects don't take full damage from fire), until its supply of hit points is gone.
But in actual play, as the DM, I would simply have overlooked the possibility that the fighter took fire damage from the spell, and explained how he toppled out of the sizzling, dissolving cube. And then my party's sorceror would have stuck underwear on his head before the paralysis could wear off. It's that kind of party.
This is correct, the Cube would take damage until it is dead, -10 hps, and then it's corpse would take half the remaining damage until it is destroyed. The fighter will only take damage from the fireball if the corpse is completely destroyed and no longer blocks the LoE.
In this case the Cube would take 40 damage to kill it and then it's corpse would take 1 point of additional damage. The Corpse would have 30 hps
So in order for the fighter inside the corpse to take damage the Fireball would have to do 100 damage, 30 for the cube to reach 0, 10 to kill it, and 60 points at half damage to destroy the corpse. Whereupon the fighter would take full damage from the fireball.
You overlooked something. There is a point before vaporization and after total hit point damage. Like a pot of water being heated. If you are in the pot, you will die before the water is totally vaporized or, even reaches the boiling point.
Except that Fire Ball is an instantaneous effect, after the fireball occurs it leaves no residual heat. If the Fireball doesn't make it through the Cube's corpse, then only the outside charred layer would be heated, the insides would still be the same temperature.
peristaltic (I've probalby spelt that wrong)
No, but you spelled "spelled" wrong ;).
Anyways, if you were taking a bath in a pool of jell-o and someone dropped a molotov cocktail in it would it hurt you? I Like the idea of the fighter taking 1/2 or 1/4 of the damage taken by the gelatinous cube. I also like the idea of the fighter taking any damage that exceeds the gelatinous cube's hitpoints.
Except that Fire Ball is an instantaneous effect, after the fireball occurs it leaves no residual heat. If the Fireball doesn't make it through the Cube's corpse, then only the outside charred layer would be heated, the insides would still be the same temperature.
Instantaneous doesn't equal no heating throughout the cube if all hit points were lost.
Instantaneous doesn't equal no heating throughout the cube if all hit points were lost.
But something completely engulfed by something else has all possible LoEs blocked.
A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.
A caster must have a clear line of effect to any target that he or she uses a spell on, or to any space in which he or she wishes to create an effect. The caster must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell he or she casts or power he or she manifests. For bursts, cones, cylinders, and emanation spells, the spell only affects areas, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin
A creature completely surrounded by something has no LoE to or from anywhere.
So... how do you burn away more than the outermost layer of skin (er, jello)?
But something completely engulfed by something else has all possible LoEs blocked.
A creature completely surrounded by something has no LoE to or from anywhere.
So if I walk around with a frame of paper around me (think box kite with enclosed panels) I'm immune to fireballs?
So if I walk around with a frame of paper around me (think box kite with enclosed panels) I'm immune to fireballs?
Until the paper burns through. Which means it burns through easily, then keeps going to have full effect on you.
Barriers don't 'absorb part of it'. It's either all or nothing.
In response to the LoE discussers: Can we really consider a gelatinous cube to be a solid barrier? I mean, if you shot an arrow down into a container jell-o that has a depth of 10 feet I am sure that the arrow would hit the bottom.
Pretty much anything more solid than fog is a solid barrier for LoE.
EDIT: It says verbatim that the surface of water blocks LoE for fire spells, so I'm pretty sure jell-o will.
Barriers don't 'absorb part of it'. It's either all or nothing.
I can't find that. Is that in the DMG or PHB?
A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
An arrow fired into a Gel Cube would certainly pierce it, but an instantaneous burst of flame wouldn’t necessarily heat or burn all the way through the blob. Is the character deep inside the creature? Toward the bottom? Front? Side? Since there is no easy way to determine the position of creatures within the GC or how far into the creature it would cause to heat up. I would just rule LoE was blocked as described by Cartigan. A large ball of acidic slime is a far cry from a paper cube. A pool of water is probably a better comparison, which would block LoE as described in Underwater Combat in the SRD –
SRD - The surface of a body of water blocks line of effect for any fire spell. If the caster has made a Spellcraft check to make the fire spell usable underwater, the surface still blocks the spell’s line of effect.
SRD - [b]The surface of a body of water blocks line of effect for any fire spell.
Cool. Double walled waxed paper "box kite" with a film of water between... :D
Cool. Double walled waxed paper "box kite" with a film of water between... :D
Actually your better off if the paper isn't waxed. If you have a paper cup (not a waxed one) you can actually boil water over an open flame in it. The water inside keeps the paper from reaching it's burning point. It doesn't work with a waxed cup though (I've tried both).
Silent Stilled Sudden Widened Greater Fireburst incinerates the cube and forces everyone else to make a save. DM ruled the save was only necessary because the barrier was destroyed.
Actually your better off if the paper isn't waxed. If you have a paper cup (not a waxed one) you can actually boil water over an open flame in it. The water inside keeps the paper from reaching it's burning point. It doesn't work with a waxed cup though (I've tried both).
I did this with a Dixie cup for my kid years ago. It worked. The bottom was browned but intact.
I can't find that. Is that in the DMG or PHB?
Same quote as before, from the Fireball entry:
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
Ergo, it either destroys the barrier and continues on as its radius permits, or it fails to destroy the barrier, either damaging it or not but fails to damage anything beyond it.
And why did you Sudden Widen the Fireburst? Were you trying to burn them? :P
Same quote as before, from the Fireball entry:
Ergo, it either destroys the barrier and continues on as its radius permits, or it fails to destroy the barrier, either damaging it or not but fails to damage anything beyond it.
And why did you Sudden Widen the Fireburst? Were you trying to burn them? :P
Yes, my character was a bad tempered arrogant bastard who was an Exiled Prince(exiled for being a sorceror, after his father was killed). He later went on to retake the throne along with the party who by then encuded a Battle Dancer who was his Bodyguard/Concubine
Same quote as before, from the Fireball entry:
Ergo, it either destroys the barrier and continues on as its radius permits, or it fails to destroy the barrier, either damaging it or not but fails to damage anything beyond it.
And why did you Sudden Widen the Fireburst? Were you trying to burn them? :P
Right. So, if it kills (exceeds the hit points of the cube) it will toast anyone inside.
Right. So, if it kills (exceeds the hit points of the cube) it will toast anyone inside.
Except kill =/= destroy.
A door that is burnt down is destroyed.
A creature that is killed is still a corpse, and therefore solid.
Now if it were a Disintegrate, that somehow managed to be AoE, you would be correct. If it did considerably more damage than that, it would outright destroy the cube and carry on. But it doesn't.
If it did considerably more damage than that, it would outright destroy the cube and carry on. But it doesn't.
Since this is a house rule how much damage is "considerably more"?
What the hell was the fighter doing that close to the gelatin cube?
I'd grant the rule that concealment prevents the damage, you could look at it as the cube absorbed all the impact of the blast, but I like my plan better because then I can apply it to the tower shield. (As it should be, tower shield should be able to "block" a fireball)
Maybe this is why?
Transparent (Ex): Gelatinous cubes are hard to see, even under ideal conditions, and it takes a DC 15 Spot check to notice one. Creatures who fail to notice a cube and walk into it are automatically engulfed.
The spell does melt low melting point metals so it would mostly cause the cubes body to liquefy. Causing damage to the fighter. I would say it would have to do more damage to the cube then it had HP left plus 10. I can't find where it says he doesn't get a save be cause he is paralyzed. Does anyone know where it says that at?
The cube is just ooze acid. After it dies it is most likely going to fall apart so to speak.
Note: changing from liquid to solid or back Doesn't destory the stuff. If I take a ice cube and blast it with a fireball it will change to water forming a puddle on the floor. But that didn't destory the water only change forms. Ofcourse that means the floor would be cover in acid in like 45 spaces centered on the cube.
Since this is a house rule how much damage is "considerably more"?
Enough to destroy the corpse. Which suffice it to say, is a lot more than '2'.
Maybe this is why?
The spell does melt low melting point metals so it would mostly cause the cubes body to liquefy. Causing damage to the fighter. I would say it would have to do more damage to the cube then it had HP left plus 10. I can't find where it says he doesn't get a save be cause he is paralyzed. Does anyone know where it says that at?
What is the melting point of a Gelatinous Cube? :D
So If a fireball causes enough damage to kill it it (a 15x15 cube) the instantaneous duration of a fireball would melt the whole thing? I don't think I agree with that. I think of it more as burning the creature then melting it. It's not a ball of wax, it's more like a big ameoba.
He does get a save that was covered above. (Reflex save w/ Dex @ 0)
Enough to destroy the corpse. Which suffice it to say, is a lot more than '2'.
So, you don't have a rule for it. Just say so.
So, you don't have a rule for it. Just say so.
The rule is the body is not automatically destroyed when killed. The amount of damage required to destroy it is irrelevant in this example unless the sorcerer purposely spams fireball.
What is the melting point of a Gelatinous Cube? :D
So If a fireball causes enough damage to kill it it (a 15x15 cube) the instantaneous duration of a fireball would melt the whole thing? I don't think I agree with that. I think of it more as burning the creature then melting it. It's not a ball of wax, it's more like a big ameoba.
He does get a save that was covered above. (Reflex save w/ Dex @ 0)
Depends on what they ooze is made of.
Also, what temperature is the Fireball? And does melted mean destroyed, or just kinda disfigured and warped and such?
What is the melting point of lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze? I see if I can find it.
Edit: Bronze (90 Cu 10 Sn) Cu+Sn 850-1000c 1562-832f
Copper Cu 1083c 1981f
Gold Au 1063c 1946f
Silver Ag 961c 1762f
Lead Pb 327c 621f
That seems pretty hot to me.
At that temp, if exceeded the HP of the Cube, I'd say it would be a puddle.
The spell only says it melts. If it melt copper in a instant what hope does ooze have after it is dead.
Still don't see where the reflex thing comes from. I will keep looking. All I can find is -5 to AC.
Once something reaches it's melting point it turn to liquid. It would cool after but that would take time. Never thought to give damage burning metal on skin.
Not a normal creature. Think of a ice mephit fall into lava the does it just leave a mephit body at the or turn it to steam. And again not destory just changes form. Still the dead body of the cube. Even ash count as a part of the body for certain spells.
Nothing can be created or destroyed, it can only change forms.
In this case "destroyed" is not so literal as saying the laws of physics change and the creature's atomic mass is no longer present in the universe. Lets put it this way, if a house is burnt down and then bulldozed over, it is not destroyed, it has only changed form. That doesn't make any sense does it?
Destroyed means it's structure has changed form so as to be unrecognizable from it's orriginal state. It has either been changed to ash, evaporated, or melted into a puddle of burnt goo.
In your example of an ice mephit, it would change to steam, but only after it's hit points have been depleted, brought to negative 10 and killing it and then it's body would melt and change to steam in accordence to the hardness and hp of a block of ice that size. At the point that the ice mephit melts or turns to steam it would be considered Destroyed.
A Cube is held together by something, or else it would melt into a puddle long before it had a chance to be killed. When it dies it doesn't just instantly disolve and go poof, the corpse has to be destroyed by the fireball before the fighter takes any damage from it.
Destroyed means the fireball must char the Cube's corpse to ashes, or melt the ooze away, or evaperate it, whatever. But the Fireball must first be able to not only kill the Cube, but also destroy it's body.
That means it brings the ooze to negative 10 hp and then destroys the corpse (changing it to smoke, steam, ashes, etc) That would be 40 points of damage to bring it to -10 and then enough to destroy the remaining corpse (which would probably be 15-30 hps) at half damage. so the fireball would have to do 70-100 points of damage to reach the fighter.
Still don't see where the reflex thing comes from. I will keep looking. All I can find is -5 to AC.
Somebody posted a quote from the FAQ earlier. I'll see if I can dig up a quote from the actual rules.
edit: all I'm finding so far is circumstantial evidence...
Somebody posted a quote from the FAQ earlier. I'll see if I can dig up a quote from the actual rules.
edit: all I'm finding so far is circumstantial evidence...
I think it's a little vague in the core books, though you can find stuff to support it, that's why quoting the FAQ is easier.
From the FAQ - Exactly when can a character make a Reflex saving
throw? The saving throw section on the Player’s Handbook
says Reflex saves depend on a character’s ability to dodge
out of the way. Does that mean you can’t make Reflex saves
if you can’t move?
If you’re helpless, your Dexterity score is effectively
0. You still can make Reflex saves, but your
Dexterity modifier is –5. You’re helpless whenever
you are paralyzed, unconscious, or asleep.
We were attacked by a Gelantenous Cube in a dungeon and when it moved into another room I followed it and the Paladin went around to the other exit. Our Sorceress followed the Paly and launched a Fireball into the room. I moved in cautiously and peeked around the corner. I did not see the Cube so thinking it was destroyed I yelled all clear and stepped into the room. To mysuprise and that of the party (in game and out of game) the Cube dropped down from the ceiling completly engulfing me. I never knew they could climb.
Anyway I failed my grapple and was swallowed. I took acid damage. The Paly not knowing what happened also entered the room. Saw the Cube yelled "Fire in the Hole" and ducked into a corner behind his shield. Needless to say the last fireball destroyed the Cube, though I was not hurt by the fire, it was ruled that the cube melted into a pool of acid and I took damage from it as I could not make another reflex save due to being unconscience.
So remember the Gelantenous Cube does acid damage and may leave a pool of acid behind.
It was a great session that night and I went onto Ebay and bought the Cube mini. Now everytime we are in a dungeon we are always looking up at the ceiling just incase. My DM will often pull the Cube as a reminder to me just to get his kicks.
It just says melt. I assume that would be melted all the way.
What is the melting point of lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze? I see if I can find it.
Edit: Bronze (90 Cu 10 Sn) Cu+Sn 850-1000c 1562-832f
Copper Cu 1083c 1981f
Gold Au 1063c 1946f
Silver Ag 961c 1762f
Lead Pb 327c 621f
That seems pretty hot to me.
Well, Copper can be melted at those temperatures, but it isn't instant upon contact with a heat source of those temperatures, it takes time for the copper to heat up and then melt. A fireball is an instant effect.
Ice melts at room temperature, but if you bring a block of ice out of the freezer it doesn't sizzle instantly into steam.
By melt, it means that those items would take damage from a Fireball. A Steel Sword would not melt in a fireball blast (although the hilt might) and thus should take little to no damage
A Copper Statue however would take damage from a Fireball hit, as would a block of Ice. I don't know the hardness and HP values for Copper, but lets say as an example a Copper Statue was hit be a Fireball (42 damage) and the Statue had 50 hps, the Fireball would do 21 points of damage to it, leaving it pretty much standing if somewhat disfigured (partially melted)
Just consider the Damage/round an item can take when exposed to extreme heats, a Fireball lasts less then one round. The Temperature a Fireball reachs is largely determined by the amount of damage it does, remember the fire engulfs the area, if it was always the same temperature, it would always do the same damage but a fireball's damage ranges from 3 damage to 90 or more depending on level, meta-magics, etc. Obviously there is a difference in temperature.
The Cube takes 40 points of damage just to kill it, that leaves a remainder of 2 hp Fire damage. Regardless of the Temperature of a fireball, I seriously doubt that the remaining 2 points of Fire Damage is enough to vaporize the corpse.
Regardless of a Cube's structure, it does not get evaporated by a Fireball when it is damaged. If it was then during the fight it would decrease in size when hit by Fireball attacks, for example, if a Cube took 20 points of damage, it would not be one half it's size. The only way a Fireball can melt or vaporize a Cube is to fist kill it, and then apply the remaining Fire Damage to the corpse, and as said 2 points of damage simply is not enough.
Main Entry: in·stan·ta·neous
Pronunciation: \ˌin(t)-stən-ˈtā-nē-əs, -nyəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin instantaneus, from instant-, instans, noun
Date: 1651
1 : done, occurring, or acting without any perceptible duration of time
2 : done without any delay being purposely introduced
3 : occurring or present at a particular instant
— in·stan·ta·ne·i·ty \ˌin-ˌstan-tə-ˈnē-ə-tē, ˌin(t)-stən-tə-ˈnē-\ noun
— in·stan·ta·neous·ly \ˌin(t)-stən-ˈtā-nē-əs-lē, -nyəs-lē\ adverb
— in·stan·ta·neous·ness noun
Most think the word is meant as number 1. But I think 2 is what they were meaning when using it. They were talking about how long it take. If they meant the 1st one you would even be able to save for half damage. And remember it is a spread so it start at one point and spends to the area of effect. Casting time is standard action which means in game that the spell would take about 3 second to resolve.
What the hell was the fighter doing that close to the gelatin cube?
Feeding it?
Feeding it?
Also...
Anyone who says they cannot have fun playing a single-classed human fighter simply lacks an imagination and would probably be better off not playing D&D.
That's rather... exclusionary isn't it?
There is a saddle in arms & equ that lets you ride one as a mount. Off topic.
...Riding living Jello... *facepaws*
At least we know how that half dragon half cube came to be...
The book says something about the suddle produce a sphere around you or something and you get in the cube. Would hate to run into an antimagic field?
Seriously, what would be the point of that? :P
I think you are a little confused. Water that is to say H2Omelting point is the tempture at which it starts to turn from a solid to a liquid, Namely just above32 degrees f. That is also the point at which it turns back into a solid. The temp I posted was the point at which it start that for those metals so it is safe to assume the fire ball reaches above those temps. If I put A cube out on the counter it should take about 30min to hour to melt. If i stick it in a oven pre heated to 350 it would last long. The entry just says melts so it is safe to assume the temp of the fire ball is at least 2000+ degrees f. A water base liquid even acid wouldn't stand a chance at those temps. Even in a instant.
Most think the word is meant as number 1. But I think 2 is what they were meaning when using it. They were talking about how long it take. If they meant the 1st one you would even be able to save for half damage. And remember it is a spread so it start at one point and spends to the area of effect. Casting time is standard action which means in game that the spell would take about 3 second to resolve.
How much Heat from the Fireball that is transfered to it's surroundings is what needs to be looked at. The Heat of the Fireball and the amount transfered could be measured in given units of the Damage that the Fireball does to it's surroundings. In short Temperature=Damage
How long an item lasts at a given temperature, in game terms, depends on the Damage that Temperature does and how many HPs the given object is. A Large block of Ice might have 10 HP and the same volume of water has 5 HPs. A fireball of 42 Damage would instantly melt and evaperate the Ice Block.
A Fireball sets combustables on fire and "can" melt medals such as copper, lead, gold etc. Most such items are small, like a gold ring, a scroll of paper, a small lead ordiment would likely be melted or instantly burnt to ash by a fireball (items with only 1/2 to 5 hps vs a 42 damage fireball) And Iron Sword would take damage too, but the metal would be more or less preserved, even if the hilt is destroyed etc.
Larger items, such as a Copper Statue with 50 hps, might survive a Fireball blast of 42 points of damage, though with that much damage would be hardly recognizable.
Also a Wizard casting a 6d6 Fireball could roll all ones and only do 6 points of fire damage, while this may still destroy an unattended Gold ring, it is unlikely to do much damage to a 50 hp statue other then some surface scoring, it most certainly wouldn't melt it.
I already know the rest but thanks.
The queation that is being asked is if the copper ring was inside the block of ice would it be destoryed also or would it have been protected by the Ice?
I already know the rest but thanks.
Well, Yes, Fireball does 42 Damage, Block of Ice has 10 hp. 42 Damage would destroy the Ice with 32 points of damage left, so it would continue past the barrier as per the rules. So the Copper ring would also take full damage (all 42 points)
The only time the Block of anything, ice, Gelentanous cube, a wooden chest, whatever the case may be, is if the surrounding object that provides the barrier doesn't get destroyed by the fireball.
The Question is, would weather the Fireball would be sufficent to both kill the cube and destoy it's corpse. It takes 40 points of damage to just kill the cube, so Myself I would rule that the remaining 2 points wouldn't destroy the cube's corpse.
That isn't to say a Maximized, Empowered 12d6 Fireball, doing 108 damage wouldn't be entirely different, that would be enough damage to kill the cube and completely destroy it's corpse, in which case the fighter inside would take full damage from the blast.
It's not a matter of if a Fireball would destroy the cube's corpse, but how powerful a Fireball would it take to destroy a cube's corpse. In this case a 42 Fireball is enough to kill the cube, but not destroy the corpse with only 2 points.